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Märklin E 94 004 slow motion with the C-sine motor, a rail4you.ch DsM 2.0 driver board
 Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Rail4You.ch is starting a new attempt with brushless motor DsM2.
Years ago, Rail4You.ch published a brushless modell drive called DsM1. The DsM1 was similar to the first Märklin C-Sinus motor. It was available for HAG locos and for Märklin locos as replacement for the standard motors.
But, the DsM1 was never build in a considerable number of items.
The now new announced DsM2 is more similar to the SoftDriveSinus motor and will be available from 2015 as replacement for standard Märklin motors. Motor and driver will be compatible to the SDS! Therefore, it will be a good replacemnt for Märklin SDS machines, where either the SDS-motor or the SDS driver circuit is damaged. Rail4You.ch will provide driver circuit and DsM2 motor alone for those customers who need only the driver or only the motor.
The Rail4You.ch DsM2 motor will provide sufficient power, approximately between 5 and 7 Watt! Compared to bell shaped aramture motors of this size with 0,5W up to 2W a big enhancement. Furthermore, because the DsM2 will be mounted with a brass bracket in the gear box, the weight is higher then that of the standard motor. This will bring additional traction.
I will stay tunded to the development and I'm looking forward for the first realease date.
Moritz |
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 12 users liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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RayF, Bigdaddynz, biedmatt, Danlake, BrandonVA, seatrains, CarlosAlberto, Unholz, mjrallare, petestra, 3rail4life, Janne75
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,446
Location: DE-NW
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Hi, Moritz,
IIRC I saw the DSM2 brochure years ago already. Sounds interesting.
When you search this site for "rail4you.ch" you will find this company was discussed here a few times. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Hello Tom,
Yes I know, that there are several discussions about Rail4You.ch here and in Stummiforum, H0-Modellbahnforum and others, too.
But now, Mr. Iten is starting a new attempt. I had a very friendly contact by Mail and phone the last days and I really beleive, that he is a very good engineer. Maybe, the economy business isn't his passion.
I know about disappointed customers in the past, because they never got the DsM1, they ordered.
But, I like the concept and I hope, that the business will now become better and we will be able to purchase the new DsM2.
Moritz |
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 Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,436 Location: Switzerland
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Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365  Maybe, the economy business isn't his passion.
Very nicely said.  However, as a person Mr. Iten is likeable, and my tests with the original DSM a couple of years ago showed the potential of the product. It will certainly be interesting to follow developments.
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2 users liked this useful post by Unholz
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Hello, I received my first sample of the complete new developed DsM 2.0 Driver yesterday! Here, You see the driver in front of my conversion candidate, a Märklin E94 with C-Sinus-Motor (Part number 39221):    On top the sound board and on the left the 8 Ohm / 0.1W speaker:  Below the old original driver-decoder-board and in the front I plugged the C-Sinus flex-cable into the new DsM 2.0 driver:  I will remove the old decoder and the sound board and replace it with an Märklin MTC21 adapter and a Zimo Dumbo speaker. The final decoder will be a Doehler&Haass SD21A-4 with the DRG E94 Soundprojekt from Leo SoundLab. Regards, Moritz |
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13 users liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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GlennM, xxup, franciscohg, michelvr, Unholz, river6109, GLI, mjrallare, Bigdaddynz, grnwtrs, MikeR, dennisb, Janne75
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 Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,971 Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
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Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Hello,
I received my first sample of the complete new developed DsM 2.0 Driver yesterday!
Here, You see the driver in front of my conversion candidate, a Märklin E94 with C-Sinus-Motor (Part number 39221):
I will remove the old decoder and the sound board and replace it with an Märklin MTC21 adapter and a Zimo Dumbo speaker. The final decoder will be a Doehler&Haass SD21A-4 with the DRG E94 Soundprojekt from Leo SoundLab.
Regards,
Moritz Looks very interesting and looking forward to seeing the completed conversion and to hear your thoughts on how it runs, etc. All the best |
Don't look back, your not heading that way. |
1 user liked this useful post by GlennM
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 Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Thats wonderful, just waiting for further reports! |
 German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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 Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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Me too, please keep us informed. Thanks.
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1 user liked this useful post by mario54i
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Of course, I hope to be able to proceed this weekend! |
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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I converted my E94 yesterday evening. I used the Märklin mtc21 adaptor board. Therefore, I can quick change and test different decoder types.  Esu Lokpilot StandardThis decoder worked very poor! When going down from higher driving step to step 0, the motor did speed up for a short moment when reaching step 0. Therefore, this decoder is unusable! Märklin mSDThe second decoder I tested was the Märklin mSD. And this one runs perfectly smooth, very low start speed on first driving step, smooth speed up until Vmax. I didn't test on rails but only on the dynamometer. Therefore, more details and test values will follow later. Moritz |
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12 users liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Unholz, RayF, franciscohg, Danlake, river6109, 3rail4life, grnwtrs, xxup, MikeR, GlennM, Bigdaddynz, Janne75
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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 Eagerly waiting, my Ram is almost open now...  |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Did You already order one sample from Rail4You? |
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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No.i am little anxious, was waiting for your report |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Here is a video, in the first part on a ramp, in the second part on the dynamometer: |
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7 users liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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Thanks Moritz.
I see that the rail4you web site was finally updated.
I will order this board soon.
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1 user liked this useful post by mario54i
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Well, wrote to them today to order some boards.
It is good to know that the ESU decoders dont work well, especially because i have been doing all my upgrades with them.
Moritz, have you the chance to test the new Marklin decoders with the board?
Since the mSD and mLD are no longer in production it will be good to know if one had to order some before the dissapear from the market
Regards |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Hello Francis,
I have a mLD/3 here to test. If it works, it should work with mSD/3, too. The motor driver technique is the same. I will test it this weekend. |
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1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Hello Francis, the mLD/3 works fine with the DsM 2.o driver board: You only have to set: CV52=1 (Sinus-Motor) With CV2 You can adjust the minimal speed. It must be set to 1 or higher (CV2=1 or higher). With CV2=0 the motor will not run! Regards, Moritz |
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1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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 Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Moritz, all in all what are the advantages by using DsM 2.0 driver board was it mainly the driving characteristics ? I'm surprised the ESU decoder didn't work, especially when they've introduced a motor setting for this softdrive cine motor.
regards.,
John |
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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For me the use and advantage of this board is to be able to upgrade decoders in old C-sinus with the decoder and board integrated in on PCB |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: river6109 Moritz, all in all what are the advantages by using DsM 2.0 driver board was it mainly the driving characteristics ? I'm surprised the ESU decoder didn't work, especially when they've introduced a motor setting for this softdrive cine motor. Hello John, the C-Sinus locos came with a decoder-driver board, which includes an MM-Decoder and the sinus motor driver. It is not possible to change the decoder of these locos, because there is no driver board available from Märklin. With the DsM 2.0 driver board, You can use any digital decoder, e.g. a modern sound decoder to drive the loco with the Sinus motor. "Any decoder" is not really true. The decoder must work with PwM voltage with ~20kHz on the motor connector. This is today standard The Esu LokPilot V4 work, but the LokPilot Standard seems to have a change in the PwM-Signal when reaching FS0. This cause an unwanted short speed up of the motor. But, why should anybody want to put a simple LokPilot Standard into an high end loco with sinus motor? Regards, Moritz |
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1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,481 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365
Esu Lokpilot Standard
This decoder worked very poor! When going down from higher driving step to step 0, the motor did speed up for a short moment when reaching step 0. Therefore, this decoder is unusable!
This sounds typical of the speed table not being properly set up. I would be surprised if the ESU decoder is not suitable. It is one of the most versatile decoders around. There is just not enough information available yet to determine if the mld/3 and msd/3 are as versatile.
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Alan,
I'm talking about the LokPilot Standard, not the LokPilot V4. The LokPilot V4 works well, as far as I know. I didn't test the V4 by myself.
Regards,
Moritz |
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,481 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Alan,
I'm talking about the LokPilot Standard, not the LokPilot V4. The LokPilot V4 works well, as far as I know. I didn't test the V4 by myself.
Regards,
Moritz OK, the symptom sounds the same though.
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Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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How much does this board cost ?
thanks
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1 user liked this useful post by mario54i
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: mario54i How much does this board cost ?
thanks AFAIK 100€!  |
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
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Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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I got today the full price list P1 from Herr Iten
driver cost is 84 CHF and the future (fall 2017) upgrade kit with DsM2 motor (and driver?) 175 CHF.
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1 user liked this useful post by mario54i
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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yes, got the mail too......will order some drivers... |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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 Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC) Posts: 521
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If this motor works with the 39010 lok, I'd order one right away! Edited by user 26 August 2017 17:39:39(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified |
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!! |
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: Hackcell If this motor works with the 39010 lok, I'd order one right away! Why do You need a new driver for Your 39010? The DsM 2.0 would work with the SDS-Motor. But I don't see the reason why to replace the original driver board from Märklin. |
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1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC) Posts: 521
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Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Originally Posted by: Hackcell If this motor works with the 39010 lok, I'd order one right away! Why do You need a new driver for Your 39010? The DsM 2.0 would work with the SDS-Motor. But I don't see the reason why to replace the original driver board from Märklin. Actual motor is not working. I've tested 2 different decoders and the motor is dead. I haven't find the plate between the decoder and the motor to see if that part is damaged. |
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!! |
1 user liked this useful post by Hackcell
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: Hackcell Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Originally Posted by: Hackcell If this motor works with the 39010 lok, I'd order one right away! Why do You need a new driver for Your 39010? The DsM 2.0 would work with the SDS-Motor. But I don't see the reason why to replace the original driver board from Märklin. Actual motor is not working. I've tested 2 different decoders and the motor is dead. I haven't find the plate between the decoder and the motor to see if that part is damaged. OK, so it is possible, that the driver board is dead or the motor is dead. That's bad. I assume, that the driver board is dead. In this case, the DsM 2.0 Driver could be a solution. In case the motor is dead, You could wait until Rail4You is presenting the DsM 2.0 motor. But this isn't published, yet. Do You have the possibility to test the SDS motor in another loco with working SDS motor to analyze, wheather the driver board or the motor is dead? Regards, Moritz |
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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well, 3 boards ordered.....they will go for RAm 39700, BR42 39160 and E94 39221, but just one at the time...so i will take my time |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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ordered one just to begin. I'd like to upgrade my 103 39579, but how to do with moveable pantos ?
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1 user liked this useful post by mario54i
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: mario54i ordered one just to begin. I'd like to upgrade my 103 39579, but how to do with moveable pantos ? If there is enough space available, You could add the new driver and the new decoder into the loco and work with both, the old board only for moveable pantos and probably for light, ... and the new decoder for motor and sound. I don't know if there is a specific single board for the piezo drives for the pantos. |
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Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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Unfortunately it' s not mfx, only Motorola. It will become a hybrid with motor and sound driven mfx and pantos driven Motorola.
Maybe it's better that I upgrade something else, I have other locos with Csinus 1.
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Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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Driver arrived and immediately put at work in my first Taurus, a 39355, controlled by a Lokpilot V4 M4. All perfect, it runs smooth as silk.
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1 user liked this useful post by mario54i
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: mario54i Driver arrived and immediately put at work in my first Taurus, a 39355, controlled by a Lokpilot V4 M4. All perfect, it runs smooth as silk. I still have 5 DsM 2.0 driver boards for the C-Sinus for sale. I have only two C-Sinus locos therefore, I probably don't need all of them. |
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 Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France
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Hello Moritz/all, I'd like to convert a 39561 crocodile equipped with the C-Sinus motor, to a LokPilotV4/M4/SoundM4 decoder. Unfortunately, the original 6090x decoder seems to have the special electronic to drive the motor embedded with the decoder itself  -> Am I correct ? After a few investigations, I discovered no special PCB for the motor exists, except by rail4you.ch. -> Do you have a positive experience of such a conversion ? Should I need only the "DsM-2.0-Treiber für Märklin C-Sinus-Motoren, AL" (plus a decoder, of course) ? -> And BTW, do you still have such driver boards for sale ? Cheers Fabrice
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1 user liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Hello Moritz/all, I'd like to convert a 39561 crocodile equipped with the C-Sinus motor, to a LokPilotV4/M4/SoundM4 decoder. Unfortunately, the original 6090x decoder seems to have the special electronic to drive the motor embedded with the decoder itself -> Am I correct ? After a few investigations, I discovered no special PCB for the motor exists, except by rail4you.ch. -> Do you have a positive experience of such a conversion ? Should I need only the "DsM-2.0-Treiber für Märklin C-Sinus-Motoren, AL" (plus a decoder, of course) ? -> And BTW, do you still have such driver boards for sale ? Cheers Fabrice Hello Fabrice, yes, the 39561 should be compatible with the rail4you.ch DsM 2.0 driver bord. The flex cable is the standard flex cable for C-Sinus drives. With an Esu LokPilot or LokSound V4 I wouldn't expect any problems with this combination. Yes, I still have two DsM 2.0 bords here. You only need the DsM 2.0 driver bord and off course the Esu LokPilot/LokSound decoder. Nothing else. I could send You the DsM 2.0 driver incl. shipping to France for 85€. Regards, Moritz |
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1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France
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Great news, Moritz !
I have also a 39195 (E91) to update, with same C-Sinus...
You have 2 boards left... Mmh, let's discuss about a bundle for the 2 by PM.
Is it possible to show us the wiring diagram, from the DSM board to the LoPi ?
Cheers
Fabrice
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1 user liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice
Is it possible to show us the wiring diagram, from the DSM board to the LoPi ?
Hello Fabrice, the circuit is quite simple:  Regards, Moritz |
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1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France
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Oh, thank you !
It is really obvious: +, -, motor left, motor right. Very simple.
I'm going to PM you before end of day...
Cheers
Fabrice
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1 user liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Märklin E 94 004 slow motionThe loco is equipped with the C-sine motor, a rail4you.ch DsM 2.0 driver board and a Märklin mSD sound decoder. The E 94 004 reaches a Vmin of 1,44km/h. |
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3 users liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: Torino,
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Did you test minimum speed before conversion ?
I put the rail4you board in a Taurus 36355 and minimum speed at speed 1 of 28 was similar to yours, but minimum speed of a DB 152 39350 with original electronics at speed 1 of 14 was one half.
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1 user liked this useful post by mario54i
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Originally Posted by: mario54i Did you test minimum speed before conversion ? No, I didn't, but this result is for me good enough, there is a little space for tuning. But for normal use, 1 - 1,5km/h is perfect for me. More important and the reason for this conversion is, to be able to use a modern DCC-Decoder with sound with this loco. Edited by user 10 November 2017 07:38:30(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified |
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Some news: I tried out to connect the DsM 2.0 Driver board not to the rails but to the decoder U+ and GND and to buffer this voltage. This is because I realized, that the DsM 2.0 doesn't like short voltage breaks. And now, with this connection circuit, the loco drives much better then before:  C = 470 µF/25V R = 100 Ohm Diode = SB140 The capacitor buffers the voltage U+ which is the internal decoder voltage and supplied to the DsM 2.0 driver. |
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3 users liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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7 users liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
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Märklin E 94 004 slow motion with the C-sine motor, a rail4you.ch DsM 2.0 driver board
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