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Goofy		#1 Posted : 09 November 2008 10:44:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,282		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br />For this you would need Uhlenbrock's Lissy system, or the Zimo train detection systems. You can achieve a crude train location detection system with contact tracks, but you won't know which train is there, just that there is a train there! Exactly...! But the system inside of DCC is calling as "Railcom" and in that function,you can see what kind of locomotiv or and the trainset there is on the track. This function is not working for MM and mfx. Goofy
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jeehring		#2 Posted : 09 November 2008 19:29:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br />For this you would need Uhlenbrock's Lissy system, or the Zimo train detection systems. You can achieve a crude train location detection system with contact tracks, but you won't know which train is there, just that there is a train there! Exactly...! But the system inside of DCC is calling as "Railcom" and in that function,you can see what kind of locomotiv or and the trainset there is on the track. This function is not working for MM and mfx. Goofy As far as I know, Railcom is actually a concept only. Railcom is a concept of bidirectionnal bus for data transmission.... Untill now there is nothing available on the market. No items, no bidir. modules existing . It doesn't work yet . You may find centrals "ready for Railcom" , or "ready for bidir.com." only. But there is nothing to be connected. Not yet. In DCC world : no bidirectionnal communication items, not yet. Only DIGITRAX has bidir. com. system .( & it is not Railcom)
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Goofy		#3 Posted : 09 November 2008 19:58:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,282		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br />For this you would need Uhlenbrock's Lissy system, or the Zimo train detection systems. You can achieve a crude train location detection system with contact tracks, but you won't know which train is there, just that there is a train there! Exactly...! But the system inside of DCC is calling as "Railcom" and in that function,you can see what kind of locomotiv or and the trainset there is on the track. This function is not working for MM and mfx. Goofy As far as I know, Railcom is actually a concept only. Railcom is a concept of bidirectionnal bus for data transmission.... Untill now there is nothing available on the market. No items, no bidir. modules existing . It doesn't work yet . You may find centrals "ready for Railcom" , or "ready for bidir.com." only. But there is nothing to be connected. Not yet. In DCC world : no bidirectionnal communication items, not yet. Only DIGITRAX has bidir. com. system .( & it is not Railcom) Railcom is not an concept. It´s really in function now...! Lenz,ZIMO,ESU and Viessmann has now Railcom in function...! Even ESUs locomotiv decoder for DCC has now Railcom,even for SDS motor too with Railcom. Goofy
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jeehring		#4 Posted : 12 November 2008 23:58:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br />For this you would need Uhlenbrock's Lissy system, or the Zimo train detection systems. You can achieve a crude train location detection system with contact tracks, but you won't know which train is there, just that there is a train there! Goofy As far as I know, Railcom is actually a concept only. Railcom is a concept of bidirectionnal bus for data transmission.... Untill now there is nothing available on the market. No items, no bidir. modules existing . It doesn't work yet . You may find centrals "ready for Railcom" , or "ready for bidir.com." only. But there is nothing to be connected. Not yet. In DCC world : no bidirectionnal communication items, not yet. Only DIGITRAX has bidir. com. system .( & it is not Railcom) Railcom is not an concept. It´s really in function now...! Lenz,ZIMO,ESU and Viessmann has now Railcom in function...! Even ESUs locomotiv decoder for DCC has now Railcom,even for SDS motor too with Railcom. Goofy I'm sorry, I think you are wrong... I'm following forums about DCC,I'm reading magazines , I didn't see any single line about Railcom items, or about how it works .. But I have seen a lot of annoucements & advertisings bearing the mention "Ready for railcom" Tell me what kind of info is transmitted from loco to central, how it works ? which modules? Which centrales ? Or which receiver? How to plug railcom items ? Which items? How many poles? Anyway, I'll ask some people that are seriously involved in DCC...again
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Goofy		#5 Posted : 14 November 2008 18:47:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,282		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br />For this you would need Uhlenbrock's Lissy system, or the Zimo train detection systems. You can achieve a crude train location detection system with contact tracks, but you won't know which train is there, just that there is a train there! Goofy As far as I know, Railcom is actually a concept only. Railcom is a concept of bidirectionnal bus for data transmission.... Untill now there is nothing available on the market. No items, no bidir. modules existing . It doesn't work yet . You may find centrals "ready for Railcom" , or "ready for bidir.com." only. But there is nothing to be connected. Not yet. In DCC world : no bidirectionnal communication items, not yet. Only DIGITRAX has bidir. com. system .( & it is not Railcom) Railcom is not an concept. It´s really in function now...! Lenz,ZIMO,ESU and Viessmann has now Railcom in function...! Even ESUs locomotiv decoder for DCC has now Railcom,even for SDS motor too with Railcom. Goofy I'm sorry, I think you are wrong... I'm following forums about DCC,I'm reading magazines , I didn't see any single line about Railcom items, or about how it works .. But I have seen a lot of annoucements & advertisings bearing the mention "Ready for railcom" Tell me what kind of info is transmitted from loco to central, how it works ? which modules? Which centrales ? Or which receiver? How to plug railcom items ? Which items? How many poles? Anyway, I'll ask some people that are seriously involved in DCC...again Please,give up little boy...! Check here: www.zimo.at www.esu.eu www.digital-plus.de Lenz has Central unit name LZV100 V 3.6 and there is Railcom...! Fully functional Railcom...! ZIMO too...! ESU is now producing DCC protocoll decoder with Railcom. And you can using SDS motor togehter with Railcom...! Simple and easy way...! Goofy
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jeehring		#6 Posted : 14 November 2008 19:25:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Don't get mistaken by advertising or read it correctly . I give you an example : Look at ESU new Lokpilot 3.0 and read , it is said : "...and is also <u>armed</u> for the <u>coming</u> NMRA DCC BiDirectional Standard („RailCom®“) 2/ As Railcom is bidirectionnal , it needs a hardware as decoder/receiver . If a central is " armed" for "Railcom" it only means that it is "prepared" to allow connection of a receiver. The receiver can be embedded, but I don't know any central with Railcom Receiver embedded... Next generation may be...
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brettsh		#7 Posted : 14 November 2008 20:27:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/04/2005(UTC) Posts: 13 Location: ,		Hi, for those of you who don't believe that the technology development of the german/austrian Railcom working group of Tams, Zimo, Lenz,Kuehn --- NOT the NMRA DCC working group --- is backed by real products ... have a look at these sites (mostly in german and maybe a reason why these products are not yet known outside central europe): http://www.tams-online.d...CD-1/produkte_RCD-1.html http://www.lenz-elektron.../digitalplus_railcom.php http://www.zimo.at/web20...05.htm#RailComFragen2008 The german Railcom group (whose members are member of NMRA DCC too) tries very hard to push the railcom technology forward. The NMRA DCC working group and the standardiziation process are indeed behind the market reality in central europe.
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Goofy		#8 Posted : 14 November 2008 20:39:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,282		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br />Don't get mistaken by advertising or read it correctly . I give you an example : Look at ESU new Lokpilot 3.0 and read , it is said : "...and is also <u>armed</u> for the <u>coming</u> NMRA DCC BiDirectional Standard („RailCom®“) 2/ As Railcom is bidirectionnal , it needs a hardware as decoder/receiver . If a central is " armed" for "Railcom" it only means that it is "prepared" to allow connection of a receiver. The receiver can be embedded, but I don't know any central with Railcom Receiver embedded... Next generation may be... Why can´t you just give up...??? Lenz and ZIMO has already hardware Railcom in theirs digitalsystem...!!! Even decoder from Lenz and ZIMO has Railcom,by just to start it by via programming...! THERE IS ALREADY RAILCOM IN THEIRS SYSTEM...!!! Goofy [:(!]
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Fredrik		#9 Posted : 14 November 2008 21:05:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 642		Goofy is right. RailCom does work. ECoS in the current version, toghether with the SwitchPilot, does give feedback about turnout positions through RailCom - I can confirm that. Haven't tried it with an engine decoder though, as I had no available - yet there are decoders available for this. So we should agree RailCom is up and working, although far from finished - I guess we'll see much more there. And I suggest opening a new thread för RailCom discussion, as this thread is aimed at "Can CS2 identify locations of locos on screen?".
		Fredrik. *ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...) WWW: MJ-fjärren
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jeehring		#10 Posted : 14 November 2008 21:45:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		giving feedback about turnout position is not specific Railcpom feature About Lenz : the system is not complete . Some items are on the catalog. But not on the market, yet.
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jeehring		#11 Posted : 14 November 2008 21:54:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by brettsh <br />Hi, for those of you who don't believe that the technology development of the german/austrian Railcom working group of Tams, Zimo, Lenz,Kuehn --- NOT the NMRA DCC working group --- is backed by real products ... have a look at these sites (mostly in german and maybe a reason why these products are not yet known outside central europe): http://www.tams-online.d...CD-1/produkte_RCD-1.html http://www.lenz-elektron.../digitalplus_railcom.php http://www.zimo.at/web20...05.htm#RailComFragen2008 The german Railcom group (whose members are member of NMRA DCC too) tries very hard to push the railcom technology forward. The NMRA DCC working group and the standardiziation process are indeed behind the market reality in central europe. Railcom groups have been existing for several years... I'm talking about avaibility of the system on the market. Could you tell how it works, what are the given functions, which info are going from deocders to the centrals etc...did you try it already ?
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Fredrik		#12 Posted : 14 November 2008 23:13:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 642		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br />giving feedback about turnout position is not specific Railcpom feature About Lenz : the system is not complete . Some items are on the catalog. But not on the market, yet. No, it's not RailCom specific - but done through RailCom - and you initially did ask for modules who could use RailCom and/or if it was operational which it is. Now I've requested for Juhan to move relevant posts to a new "RailCom" thread. For further posts regarding RailCom create a new thread (unless Juhan already did) and post there.
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Goofy		#13 Posted : 14 November 2008 23:20:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,282		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br />giving feedback about turnout position is not specific Railcpom feature About Lenz : the system is not complete . Some items are on the catalog. But not on the market, yet. Oh for God sake...! I did had an Lenz system version 3.5 and there is Railcom and fully functional...!!!!!!!!!! The system is complete...!!!!!!!!!!! Lenz with railcom has been in the market now for some severals years. Goofy [:(!]
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Goofy		#14 Posted : 14 November 2008 23:23:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,282		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MJ-Teknik Now I've requested for Juhan to move relevant posts to a new "RailCom" thread. For further posts regarding RailCom create a new thread (unless Juhan already did) and post there. You have right...! We should stop here,before when i becomes an mad man... Goofy
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Webmaster		#15 Posted : 14 November 2008 23:52:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165		I have moved some discussion about Railcom into this separate topic...
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Bigdaddynz		#16 Posted : 15 November 2008 01:21:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,775 Location: New Zealand		It seems to me that Railcom as a system is nowhere near complete. You can buy a bits and pieces of it here and there, but no one manufacturer (this is my impression) seems to offer a complete Railcom system. And I think this is where Roland is coming from. Goofy is going on about how there is a complete system, well show us who is using it and what for! Railcom seems to me to be just vapourware at the moment. Yes I know Lenz have announced some products, but it seems to me that whatever Railcom items exist, they aren't available in large quantities, and don't seem to be a 'mainstream product' yet. I don't see any controllers supporting Railcom yet - Ecos, Marklin CS1 and CS2. Please correct me if I'm wrong. http://www.esu.eu/index.php?id=9&L=2 http://www.modelrailforu...index.php?showtopic=2041 http://www.lenz.com/techinfo/techinfolist.htm http://www.digital-plus....lplus/digitalplus_ad.php
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Webmaster		#17 Posted : 15 November 2008 01:27:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165		David, you forgot this one... http://www.digital-plus..../digitalplus_railcom.php I suppose that it for Lenz users can be regarded as "mainstream", or at least an available option, but not for us marklin-users...
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Bigdaddynz		#18 Posted : 15 November 2008 02:20:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,775 Location: New Zealand		Thanks for the link Juhan, and thanks for the clarification Lutz. Given that you could consider Marklin as 'mainstream' as you will get (Marklin sells roughly half of all MRR products sold worldwide), then I don't think Railcom , such as it exists, can be considered 'mainstream'.
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Webmaster		#19 Posted : 15 November 2008 02:48:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165		We may consider M as mainstream of course, but I suspect the majority of the mrr world outside Germany doesn't (those pesky NMRA 2-railers...)... Railcom can still be regarded as an "option" in the Lenz system, but you cannot deny that it exists and that products also exist. Kind of reminds me about Märklin/Systems - the concept is there and some basic units are available... If NMRA swallows the RailCom concept as they did with the Lenz DCC system, there might be a worldwide acceptance of the bi-directional Lenz RailCom.
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Bigdaddynz		#20 Posted : 15 November 2008 03:06:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,775 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster <br />there might be a worldwide acceptance of the bi-directional Lenz RailCom. And it could turn out to be a very good system, it does have potential! We just need to see more evidence of something concrete before we start shelling out the hard earned cash!
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mmrcnzjohn		#21 Posted : 15 November 2008 07:15:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 558 Location: ,		Excuse me If I am wrong, But my understanding is that Zimo Locomotives decoders are Bi-Directionally enabled, their control unit is bi-directionally enabled, and they have decoders that are bi-directionally enabled, so if you use all 3 together, you effectively have a working Railcom system. What you do with it is of course your decision!
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Goofy		#22 Posted : 15 November 2008 10:08:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,282		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mmrcnzjohn <br />Excuse me If I am wrong, But my understanding is that Zimo Locomotives decoders are Bi-Directionally enabled, their control unit is bi-directionally enabled, and they have decoders that are bi-directionally enabled, so if you use all 3 together, you effectively have a working Railcom system. What you do with it is of course your decision! Thank you,John...! Don´t forget Lenz too...! Goofy
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mmrcnzjohn		#23 Posted : 15 November 2008 11:01:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 558 Location: ,		Hi Goofy, I will be honest and say I have not looked at the Lenz system. I have looked at the Zimo system, and the only thing that puts me off is its price!
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jeehring		#24 Posted : 15 November 2008 21:16:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster <br />David, you forgot this one... http://www.digital-plus..../digitalplus_railcom.php I suppose that it for Lenz users can be regarded as "mainstream", or at least an available option, but not for us marklin-users... This is a catalog only. On a virtual website. Now, if you may give an adress where we can find a fully <u>operationnal</u>*** complete Railcom system , you will make some people happy ( not Zimo who probably & recently updated their system , but is too complicated and too expensive) Thank you *** with at least 2 or 3 operationnal functions
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Goofy		#25 Posted : 15 November 2008 21:56:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,282		2-3 operation functions...??? ZIMO has 20 differents function by control locomotiv,while Lenz has 29 functions to choise...! Depends what decoder there is to use. ZIMO and Lenz has both Railcom functions too. Goofy
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Fredrik		#26 Posted : 16 November 2008 00:46:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 642		Well, at www.esu.eu you will find the ECoS. This unit HAS RailCom enabled, it will receive RailCom feedback of accessory-decoders, and engine-decoders which are suited for RailCom (for instance: SwitchPilot for accessories, and LokPilot micro for engines). It also supports POM, and reading of CV on the main for those RailCom-decoders. And that is probably ALL functionality available today by RailCom. The automatic registration (like mfx) is not yet implemented for RailCom. What more do you want? It does exist, and it is working!
		Fredrik. *ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...) WWW: MJ-fjärren
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mmrcnzjohn		#27 Posted : 16 November 2008 03:40:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 558 Location: ,		Lets not lose sight of what we are talking about here. What is a function? My understanding is: It will tell you what status a point/signal is It will tell you where a locomotive is When it come to triggering functions, that is not a rail com “function” rather a result of a railcom telling you where a locomotive (or for that matter any sort of rail mounted function decoder) is. Where I will find it useful is where I have trains in a hidden storage yard, and before they exit the tunnel, their sound gets switched on. Also useful will be powering the layout up and seeing what locomotive is in what storage yard. But of course I run my trains ever day (yeah right) and know exactly what the address and locomotives are!!!!!!!
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jeehring		#28 Posted : 31 January 2009 05:41:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MJ-Teknik <br />Well, at www.esu.eu you will find the ECoS. This unit HAS RailCom enabled, it will receive RailCom feedback of accessory-decoders, and engine-decoders which are suited for RailCom (for instance: SwitchPilot for accessories, and LokPilot micro for engines). It also supports POM, and reading of CV on the main for those RailCom-decoders. And that is probably ALL functionality available today by RailCom. The automatic registration (like mfx) is not yet implemented for RailCom. What more do you want? It does exist, and it is working! POM and reading CV on the main : in DCC world many people are doing it without Railcom . You can even do it with MFX ! We don't need railcom for that . As you noticed it is written " it <u>will</u> receive RailCom feedback " You should read what it is written in English in the chapter about lokpilot micro....
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Bigdaddynz		#29 Posted : 31 January 2009 08:34:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,775 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mmrcnzjohn <br />Where I will find it useful is where I have trains in a hidden storage yard, and before they exit the tunnel, their sound gets switched on. Also useful will be powering the layout up and seeing what locomotive is in what storage yard. Yes that, and turning smoke units off when a loco goes into a tunnel or hidden area, and turning it back on when it comes out, or sounding a loco's whistle when it comes out of a tunnel.
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