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Offline Cyborg  
#1 Posted : 15 February 2017 04:19:19(UTC)
Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Hello,

I was wandering what people's opinion is regarding ESU Locomotive models. I was looking at their upcoming models and the 31275 was of interest to me. I have only ever bought Marklin, but when I looked at the specs for the ESU, it seems that these have far more features than Marklin, such as smoke for the engine which varies according to speed and load, lighting around the brakes to show them glowing and sparking amongst a host of other features. I am not familiar with this brand at all, I don't think they are sold in Australia so I was wanting some advice as to their quality and compatibility with the Central/Mobile Stations. Here is the train I'm looking at:

ESU 31275 Loco.jpg
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Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 15 February 2017 04:28:20(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I don't have any ESU locos as such but reports have been in the beginning somewhat disappointing with small issues and it looks like these issues have now been resolved. suppose with any production being done in China or any other Asian countries the buck stays with the company to make sure no loco goes onto the market until it is 100 % ok and there has been notification this has been addressed.

you're right with saying there are numerous functions regarding special features which you will not find with any other producer. one should also note all models are made of metal, I will buy one in the near future if the right model comes up.

all locos have an ESU Version4 M4 sound decoder which enables you to use it with your central or mobile station, if you have an ECoS you could use these as well with more functions available on your 6021 (12 Aux functions)

John

Edited by user 15 February 2017 08:39:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline peterna  
#3 Posted : 15 February 2017 06:54:02(UTC)
peterna

Australia   
Joined: 21/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: Sydney
I have both a V200 and a V60. Both are brilliant locomotives with very fine detail - far in excess of equivalent Marklin model.BigGrin
Have not had a problem with either
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 15 February 2017 08:11:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
I have four ESU locos, including the Class 66 in HGK livery. The specs are excellent and the quality is quite good.
Lots of small details that are already mounted at the factory.
And you get a first-class motor and a first-class decoder (I'm not always happy with Märklin's cost-optimised motors and cost-optimised decoders).

You can get 17 functions using a CU 6021 and MM protocol.
You can get 16 functions using a Central Station and the superior mfx protocol.
You can use all functions (up to 29) using DCC.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 15 February 2017 12:54:46(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
With regards to the smoke, you must use ESU smoke fluid, not the smoke oil supplied by Seuthe, and resold by Marklin, LGB et al.

I don't know the reason for this, but my understanding is that the wrong smoke fluid gums them up, so presumably it is a lighter oil. The other part fo this is that you can use ESU smoke fluid in any loco from Marklin or elsewhere as well.

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Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 15 February 2017 13:25:33(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I was looking at a couple of ESU locos in a shop in Luxembourg last time I was there on business. They look very good and I was tempted, but the price difference against an equivalent Marklin model made it unattractive for me.

As a comparison I looked up, on the Lokshop website, a ESU Br215 and compared it to a Marklin Br 217. Both are based on the similar Br218 but I couldn't find two matching models in the two ranges! Smile They both have extensive sound functions but the ESU loco also has a smoke generator. Looking at the prices the ESU loco is priced by Lokshop at 359.10 Euro, and the Marklin loco at 269.99 Euro. That's a difference of 90 euro for very similar products.

https://shop.lokshop.de/...7ocrkm1abvn93uhv4sjktqo3

https://shop.lokshop.de/...7ocrkm1abvn93uhv4sjktqo3




Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 15 February 2017 15:06:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
That's a difference of 90 euro for very similar products.
Not that similar as ESU brings more light functions (cab lights, console lights), the smoke generator, and extra sound functions triggered by sensors (curve sounds triggered by a curve detector, turnout sounds triggered by a turnout detector).

The RRP for Märklin's V 200 was €400 approx. in the days of C Sine motors and went down to €350 approx. afterwards.
So when we look at the V200 we have two locos at very similar prices.

It's a bit more difficult to get big discounts for ESU products, but it is not impossible.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline dickinsonj  
#8 Posted : 16 February 2017 19:04:42(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Not that similar as ESU brings more light functions (cab lights, console lights), the smoke generator, and extra sound functions triggered by sensors (curve sounds triggered by a curve detector, turnout sounds triggered by a turnout detector).

The RRP for Märklin's V 200 was €400 approx. in the days of C Sine motors and went down to €350 approx. afterwards.
So when we look at the V200 we have two locos at very similar prices.

I completely agree.

Last year I bought a V 200 from Märklin and then early this year I finally got my ESU V200. If I remember correctly the cost difference was only about $15 USD more for the ESU loco. The detailing, features and high quality drivetrain in the ESU loco make it very hard to justify the Märklin model in my opinion. I will be interested to see if ESU ever makes a steam loco because it would most likely be pretty amazing.

Either ESU is losing money on their locos or we are getting seriously ripped off by Märklin, I'll let you decide which it is.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline Rwill  
#9 Posted : 16 February 2017 20:33:52(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: England, London
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
I will be interested to see if ESU ever makes a steam loco because it would most likely be pretty amazing.





You may not have long to wait for that http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...-in-h0/class-t161-in-h0/ and yes it does look amazing even to the point of synchronised smoke.

I could spoil things by mentioning the price RRP 559Euros- 499Euros if you hunt
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Offline dickinsonj  
#10 Posted : 17 February 2017 01:49:51(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post

You may not have long to wait for that http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...-in-h0/class-t161-in-h0/ and yes it does look amazing even to the point of synchronised smoke.

WOW - that is beautiful. A steam dream, so to speak. BigGrin

Märklin needs to step up their game or they will have to give up the top end of the mass market product line, or maybe they already have.

I do see serious improvement in their locos and it gives me hope for the future. Looking at something like the Insider 103 I think that they may be working on getting back on top again.

It will be interesting to see what happens, but ESU has set a high bar on their newest locos IMO. If Märklin can produce locos to match it could be quite a bit of fun for us train guys. BigGrin

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline hennabm  
#11 Posted : 17 February 2017 22:08:29(UTC)
hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,040
Location: Edinburgh,
I bought the ESU 218 the other year. The reason for me was the digital effects available on it compare with any M* version.

I love the smoke on start up and the screeching on tight slow corners BigGrin

I've not had any problems with it and recommend one to anyone.

Mike
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
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Offline bugsmasher  
#12 Posted : 20 February 2017 21:08:32(UTC)
bugsmasher

United States   
Joined: 07/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Michigan, Canton
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

I was wandering what people's opinion is regarding ESU Locomotive models. ........ I was wanting some advice as to their quality and compatibility with the Central/Mobile Stations. Here is the train I'm looking at:

ESU 31275 Loco.jpg


I have the HGK version (31271) on order but it hasn't been delivered yet. Earlier I posted a thread "CS3 Addressable Functions" which posed a question of whether the CS3 would address more than 16 functions. Later I received my CS3+ but found that it was unable to address functions beyond F15 on my Piko E141 which has an ESU M4 Lok-sound decoder that has more than 16 functions. The consensus of replies in that thread was that it was the software of the **decoder** that is deficient because Marklin has not revealed the precise way its CS3 software (or its loco decoders) addresses functions beyond F15. Responders felt that Marklin has not done this for reasons of competitive secrecy.

While technically correct as to the mismatch between the **current** CS3 and ESU M4 softwares, that response does not make complete long term sense. Obviously, the problem can technically be solved by modifying **either** the CS3 or the decoder software.

All that is needed is will by the two manufacturers to cooperate (as they once did when the mfx protocol was created) rather than compete on providing capability beyond F15. It seems to me that the manufacturers should work together on a win-win solution whereby one sells more digital controllers and the other sells more locomotives and their digital decoders.

It seems to me that Marklin is foolish if they think they are ever going to displace ESU in electronics and ESU is equally foolish if it thinks it is ever going to replace Marklin in model locomotives. Each has too much history and strong reputation in their respective commercial sectors (model locomotives and rolling stock for Marklin and electronics for ESU). It is entirely possible that if the two manufacturers did cooperate Marklin would sell significantly more locomotives and ESU more controllers thus "expanding the market." But each company fighting the other's historical commercial strength and reputation seems futile -- and destructive to both.

The hidden elephants in this equation are probably the competition and profit margins on the two classes of product -- digital controllers and locomotives. (Marklin has dominated the locomotive market, but better electronics is allowing ESU to move into it. Marklin had the advantage in controllers, was strongly threatened by the ESU controller, but responded with the CS3 and its own decoders and locomotives that are equivalent to but not clearly superior to those by ESU.). Short term business sight encourages each company to focus and concentrate on the product that gives the highest margin, but long term business foresight brings sales volume and **absence of necessity to compete** into the picture. It seems to me that both companies are now viewing the situation with short sight that causes incompatibility problems for customers. If that incompatibility were eliminated each company might do better in its historical market (where it has greater reputation and expertise) -- and BOTH companies might enjoy a larger market of controllers and locomotives than either company could achieve alone, hopefully beginning in the near term (always good for business) and continuing into the long term. Maybe, even, the companies should MERGE to produce a stronger business enterprise! At least, someone should be thinking about such things.

The decisions, of course, are for the two companies to make. But the long term result of the current competitive attitude is easy to foresee, at least in the model train market -- one company will survive and the other will die (or be forced to switch to a different product or market). It seems to me that Marklin has the most to lose in this current competition because it stands to lose a long reputation and can't switch to different toys easily. ESU is fast becoming the world leader in model electronics and could not only stunt but kill its progress, but seems more able to switch to a different kind of electronic product. Again, the decisions are for the companies to make but both should be thoroughly comparing the pros and cons in both the long and short terms. Unfortunately, until they decide to cooperate (or the market decides the issues and product focus for them after much loss or pain for one or both companies) we the customers will suffer the incompatibility.
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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 20 February 2017 21:28:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post
But the long term result of the current competitive attitude is easy to foresee, at least in the model train market -- one company will survive and the other will die (or be forced to switch to a different product or market).
Little do we know for sure.

There was a time when ESU supplied decoders and controllers to Märklin and decoders to Roco, Fleischmann, Brawa, and several others.
Then Märklin, Roco, and Fleischmann found other suppliers. And ESU started to produce locos to show what (their) decoders can do.

Some more cooperation between those two companies would surely help the consumers.

To get 29 functions on your ESU locos using the CS3, you can still disable mfx in the loco decoder until ESU and/or Märklin solve the issue for mfx.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 21 February 2017 03:32:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
the real question for me is not so much how many aux functions or sound slot functions are available but an effort to logistically program sound slot functions which would be reducing the activation of manually operated sound slot functions.

I cannot foresee manufacturers working together, as was the case few years back (Märklin - ESU). ESU/Zimo/Viessmann/, the only merger I can envisage is ESU and Lenz and whoever wants to join them.

ESU loco and wagon selection will most probably increase over time and the extra functions they include in their locos may attract more people in future, part of Brawa there aren't any other manufacturers who make metal locos, not having followed Märklin's sound decoder programming ability and the extra light functions (if any), it could also be that most Märklin enthusiast may not be aware of what ESU sound decoders extra light functions, smoke generators, electrical couplings can do and I'm sure there will be plenty who are satisfied with the current set up (sound decoders)

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline baggio  
#15 Posted : 21 February 2017 04:57:59(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I have read this thread with interest and thank everyone who contributed so much helpful information. BigGrin

BUT

The idea of spending 500 Euros for a loco, Cad$750.00, just makes the whole discussion moot for me.

I doubt any company can survive if they expect a big enough number of buyers to spend so much for a loco.

Frankly, I think ALL locos should be of fine quality right out of the box without having to fork over so much money.

Walthers does it for a fraction of 500 Euros and so should Marklin.

Having said all of that, if any of you has a video to share of these top notch locos, I would be interested in seeing it. ThumpUp

Thank you.

Silvano
Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 21 February 2017 08:13:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
The idea of spending 500 Euros for a loco, Cad$750.00, just makes the whole discussion moot for me.
I think I never spent more than €350 for any of my ESU locos (incl. VAT). Some Märklin locos were more expensive.
Postage makes things more expensive in America, even if VAT is removed.

You can get three cheap locos for the price of one premium loco. The cheap locos look different, but do the same tricks. The premium loco has some tricks none of the cheap locos has.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline baggio  
#17 Posted : 21 February 2017 13:22:59(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
You can get three cheap locos for the price of one premium loco. The cheap locos look different, but do the same tricks. The premium loco has some tricks none of the cheap locos has.


I will have to stick to cheap locos then. But CAD$300.00 is anything but "cheap" for my wallet. BigGrin
Offline RayF  
#18 Posted : 21 February 2017 13:44:34(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
"Cheap" and "Expensive" are relative terms. How do you define a 500 euro model locomotive compared to a 50000 euro yacht?

I prefer to think of the relative value for money of whatever I'm buying.

For my pocket, a 300 euro loco is expensive but affordable. A 200 euro loco that is the same as the 300 euro loco but is lacking just a few details is better. A 500 euro loco that is only marginally better is too much.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline GlennM  
#19 Posted : 21 February 2017 14:25:49(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
I have read this thread with interest and thank everyone who contributed so much helpful information. BigGrin

BUT

The idea of spending 500 Euros for a loco, Cad$750.00, just makes the whole discussion moot for me.

I doubt any company can survive if they expect a big enough number of buyers to spend so much for a loco.

Frankly, I think ALL locos should be of fine quality right out of the box without having to fork over so much money.

Walthers does it for a fraction of 500 Euros and so should Marklin.

Having said all of that, if any of you has a video to share of these top notch locos, I would be interested in seeing it. ThumpUp

Thank you.

Silvano


Not everything in life can be viewed simply in terms of just cost.
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline bugsmasher  
#20 Posted : 21 February 2017 14:41:54(UTC)
bugsmasher

United States   
Joined: 07/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Michigan, Canton
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
You can get three cheap locos for the price of one premium loco. The cheap locos look different, but do the same tricks. The premium loco has some tricks none of the cheap locos has.


I will have to stick to cheap locos then. But CAD$300.00 is anything but "cheap" for my wallet. BigGrin


Difficult and destructive competition against each other's strengths is a classic situation in which mergers (or abandonment and switch to other products and markets) occur. Let's face it. At least in America, model railroading is a declining hobby and market. We are a small, specialty and niche market. From the businessman's point of view the question is whether hanging in there with the product or market is worth the effort and return on investment. As customers we are going to have to PAY to continue obtaining good products.

One way to gain competitive edge and market share is to increase the functionality (and complexity) of the product. But there comes a point at which complexity ( "bells and whistles") overwhelms the customer and required price. Absent government regulation (or subsidy), price is dominated more by what the market will bear (pay) than anything else. For all these reasons automobiles and word processing and operating system software and personal computers come to mind. Model railroading hasn't reached the end point yet but we are approaching it.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#21 Posted : 21 February 2017 16:00:04(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post

While technically correct as to the mismatch between the **current** CS3 and ESU M4 softwares, that response does not make complete long term sense. Obviously, the problem can technically be solved by modifying **either** the CS3 or the decoder software.

All that is needed is will by the two manufacturers to cooperate (as they once did when the mfx protocol was created) rather than compete on providing capability beyond F15. It seems to me that the manufacturers should work together on a win-win solution whereby one sells more digital controllers and the other sells more locomotives and their digital decoders.

From the ESU point of view the M4 decoder market will be a small percentage of their total output. At the moment they are putting a lot of effort into providing projects for their 'Full throttle' configuration which appears to be largely aimed at the US market and how they drive their diesel locos, although ESU are also now starting to use FT for steam as well. So changing their M4 code to handle up to 32 functions in mfx mode is probably well down the list of things to do, rather than a deliberate decision to not do anything about it.

Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post

It seems to me that Marklin is foolish if they think they are ever going to displace ESU in electronics and ESU is equally foolish if it thinks it is ever going to replace Marklin in model locomotives. Each has too much history and strong reputation in their respective commercial sectors (model locomotives and rolling stock for Marklin and electronics for ESU). It is entirely possible that if the two manufacturers did cooperate Marklin would sell significantly more locomotives and ESU more controllers thus "expanding the market." But each company fighting the other's historical commercial strength and reputation seems futile -- and destructive to both.

The hidden elephants in this equation are probably the competition and profit margins on the two classes of product -- digital controllers and locomotives.


No, in each case it will be what their internal priorities are for what gets done next. For ESU the priority is their push into the US market where they are doing well. For Marklin they have other priotities than worrying about ESU.

And don't expect ESU and Marklin to have a cooperative program any time soon after the split following the cs1/ms1 debacle. That will have left a bad taste in the mouth of both sides for a while yet, at least until the management of both sides are well retired I suspect.

Offline bugsmasher  
#22 Posted : 21 February 2017 16:50:24(UTC)
bugsmasher

United States   
Joined: 07/09/2016(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Michigan, Canton
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

No, in each case it will be what their internal priorities are for what gets done next. For ESU the priority is their push into the US market where they are doing well. For Marklin they have other priotities than worrying about ESU.





Facts of business life. We get what we pay for. The market will decide, whatever the companies do or do not do. The US market for European locomotives and rolling stock is peanuts (unless Marklin or ESU expand to challenge manufacturers of American locomotives and rolling stock or controllers) compared to the total market. But business priorities change due to world economics and competition. Let's end this debate. The readers and commenters to this thread understand or can understand the competing factors.

Marklin is still a great company and the primary reason for this forum. Go, Marklin!
Offline kiwiAlan  
#23 Posted : 21 February 2017 17:20:28(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bugsmasher Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

No, in each case it will be what their internal priorities are for what gets done next. For ESU the priority is their push into the US market where they are doing well. For Marklin they have other priotities than worrying about ESU.





Facts of business life. We get what we pay for. The market will decide, whatever the companies do or do not do. The US market for European locomotives and rolling stock is peanuts


I wasn't meaning locos and rolling stock, I was thinking in terms of ESU decoders, where they do have a significant and growing portion of the US market.

Offline dickinsonj  
#24 Posted : 22 March 2017 20:55:09(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
I needed to update my input on this thread to better reflect reality, since I had suggested that ESU locos were a better value than Märklin ones.

After receiving my first ESU loco, a 31089 V 200, I was very, very impressed. It is beautifully detailed and it has so many amazing features that I was in love, at least for as long as it ran. Unfortunately that was only for a few weeks. One day it simply came to a nice smooth stop which I had not commanded and it sat there making pretty idling sounds on my layout. All of those amazing features still work perfectly but the motor has never ran again. If I command speed steps the sounds ramp up and when I command it to stop the sounds ramp back down to idle. As it "stops" the brakes squeal and the cool undercarriage LEDs flicker to simulate brake sparks, but it does not move. I have communicated with Modellbahnshop-lippe and they suggested a chip reset, which did not help. Now my only option is to pay the high cost of shipping required to return it to Germany. I plan to shop around and see what the cheapest shipping option is but I am not very hopeful of finding an acceptable one.

I exchanged emails with an ESU rep here in the US and although he does not deal with the locos he believes that it may be a failed motor. So that custom designed, custom made, skew wound, five pole beauty with two flywheels had only about 5-10 hours of operation in it! Many people lament the current quality of Märklin motors but I have never had one fail me, even after many years of service.

So now I have to decide if it is worth the high cost of shipping to get it back to Germany or if I should just sell it "as is" for a low price to some poor sod willing to take a chance. BigGrin I am a member of the ESU forum and I know that some people have had ESU locos repaired multiple times and it would not take very many shipments to make it better to just move it on and to forget about my lost investment. If I lived in Europe it might make sense to deal with beautiful, high feature but fragile locos but when buying from here in the US I can't justify ever getting another one. I almost reserved that super cool looking new tank loco they are making but now I know that it is just not worth the risk, at least from my perspective.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline river6109  
#25 Posted : 22 March 2017 21:29:11(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Jim,

I agree with you when it comes sending locos back to the manufacturer in Germany, its not worth the hassle, hence I've stopped buying expensive locos, just in case something goes wrong with them. how long ago did you purchase this loco ?

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline dickinsonj  
#26 Posted : 22 March 2017 21:44:04(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Jim,

I agree with you when it comes sending locos back to the manufacturer in Germany, its not worth the hassle, hence I've stopped buying expensive locos, just in case something goes wrong with them. how long ago did you purchase this loco ?

John


Hi John,

I bought this loco at the end of December but my layout was not ready yet and I did not get to run it until sometime in February. I had the same thought about the hassle and expense of shipping. My Insider railbus developed a short after only a short period of time and it cost me $45 USD just to send it back to a dealer in Canada. That was almost 15% of the cost of that model.

So my plan now is to buy only from AJCKids here in the US. They have great service and I can return things to them for a small fraction of the cost of shipping to Europe.

Live and learn, as the old saying goes.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#27 Posted : 22 March 2017 23:32:49(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I would be tempted to get hold of ESU USA and ask if they can repair it under warranty. They seem to replace decoders even if the user has managed to blow them up, but yours is a clear case of early 'bathtub curve failure'.

Offline dickinsonj  
#28 Posted : 22 March 2017 23:44:17(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I would be tempted to get hold of ESU USA and ask if they can repair it under warranty. They seem to replace decoders even if the user has managed to blow them up, but yours is a clear case of early 'bathtub curve failure'.

A friend gave me the email address of someone at ESU USA and I asked him if he could help. He replied very promptly but thought that it sounded like a motor failure to him and that they only dealt with decoders in this country. He was very nice and he said that he was sorry that he couldn't help me but that he had no parts for or knowledge of the locos themselves.

I knew that there was some risk in buying from a company that does not have a US presence and I guess I was just hoping that I would get lucky and not have any problems like this. Looking back now though I see that hoping for good luck is not the best plan when dealing with high tech, expensive toys.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline H0  
#29 Posted : 23 March 2017 08:30:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
It's a gamble: buy from a dealer in your country and it will be more expensive in the first place, but cheaper when warranty repairs are needed.

Depending on the laws of the country where the dealer resides, they may be required to cover the return postage for warranty repairs.
ANAL but investigating in that direction may help.

It happens quite often that local representatives of international companies do not handle warranty repairs for items imported by the customer.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline baggio  
#30 Posted : 23 March 2017 13:13:21(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
A local shop here told me a few days ago that Roco and Marklin repairs have to go to Germany even if you buy the locos from them or any store.

And I pay the shipping - both ways, I think.

It seems Mike here is the exception to the rule. BigGrin ThumpUp

I never paid a penny for repairs under warranty.


I think this is a trend that results from the fact that the dealer does NOT get paid to make repairs under warranty. The work done is at no gain to the dealer.

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Offline river6109  
#31 Posted : 23 March 2017 13:20:33(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
A local shop here told me a few days ago that Roco and Marklin repairs have to go to Germany even if you buy the locos from them or any store.

And I pay the shipping - both ways, I think.

It seems Mike here is the exception to the rule. BigGrin ThumpUp

I never paid a penny for repairs under warranty.


I think this is a trend that results from the fact that the dealer does NOT get paid to make repairs under warranty. The work done is at no gain to the dealer.



this is what I said before, the warranty these companies offer are useless, it will cost you more on postage than the loco is worth and this is, hoping it doesn't have to go back for a second time.

this is one of the reasons I stuck with ESU, you get a 3 year warranty and you don't have to send the whole loco back unless there is something wrong with the loco itself, therefore I hardly ever buy new locos until all the impurities have been solved and one always gets a good feedback on different forums.

another reason I stay away from detailed locos sometimes they are impossible to take apart and there is always the danger you break something.

I once received a new loco from an Australian Sole agent and the locos didn't work properly, (BR E 19) sent it back for repairs (Sydney) and he said he couldn't find any faults with it and send it back, seeing I can't get any warranty I took the loco apart, disambled the motor and found one of the wheels the whole one side didn't have any cogs.
this is what you get for your warranty, sweet ....all


regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline dickinsonj  
#32 Posted : 23 March 2017 13:59:46(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

this is what I said before, the warranty these companies offer are useless, it will cost you more on postage than the loco is worth and this is, hoping it doesn't have to go back for a second time.


With no US presence for their locos ESU falls squarely into this category for me. One return post to Germany is possibly worthwhile but by perhaps the second and certainly the third return it would have been better to just recycle the loco and move on. I am investigating the cost of shipping my ESU loco to Germany and then I will decide what to do next. I don't know that ESU's quality is any lower than Märklin's but I do know that will not buy any more of them unless they establish a US presence.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline H0  
#33 Posted : 23 March 2017 14:14:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
I think this is a trend that results from the fact that the dealer does NOT get paid to make repairs under warranty. The work done is at no gain to the dealer.
Is there no legally required warranty in Canada?

The gain will be customer confidence and customer satisfaction. If local dealers do not provide better warranty, then buy from cheaper dealers abroad.
The original selling price calculated by the dealer must include forwarding warranty cases to the manufacturer. If it takes about €50 per warranty case then expect a fault rate of 20% and add €10 for every loco you sell.
In the end it is always the customer who pays for the warranty cases - but it's better if it is like an insurance: all customers pay a small fee with the loco and those with warranty cases get the repair for free.

I cannot send locos to Roco for warranty repairs because Roco require the loco to be send back through the dealer.


I think I read it on Facebook some time ago: someone, from South Africa if I remember correctly, bought an ESU loco from a loco dealer.
There was a problem and the loco was returned to the dealer.
The loco was not sent to Germany, the dealer tried to fix it. And after two or three attempted repairs it was FUBAR.
That's the aftermath if returning locos to the manufacturer is too expensive for the dealer. Do not blame the manufacturer when the dealer fixed it beyond all repair ...
They don't get paid for fixing it, they don't get paid for sending it back. And sometimes they make the wrong choice.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline franciscohg  
#34 Posted : 23 March 2017 15:20:49(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,265
Location: Patagonia
Hi, talking again about motors, last year i received a nice Brawa lok, but the engine was defective, not running well right out of the box. Didnt even think of warranty, just order a new motor from Brawa and problem solved. Even if the repair is for free, perhaps the postage cost and delay time of sending locos back to Germany make it not worth to me.
Regards
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline dickinsonj  
#35 Posted : 23 March 2017 17:32:12(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Hi, talking again about motors, last year i received a nice Brawa lok, but the engine was defective, not running well right out of the box. Didnt even think of warranty, just order a new motor from Brawa and problem solved. Even if the repair is for free, perhaps the postage cost and delay time of sending locos back to Germany make it not worth to me.
Regards

Hi Francisco,

That is true and if I was sure what was wrong with this loco I might consider that also. But I think it may be the decoder and the US ESU rep thinks it is the motor, so it is not clear what I would replace. A friend suggested swapping 21 pin decoders between different locos to diagnose the problem but all of my 21 pin Märklin locos are still in warranty and I am reluctant to risk that. I have a new mSD3 still in the box and I guess I could try that instead but I don't want to risk damaging an expensive decoder.

I might send it back, at least one time, if I can ship it cheaply enough. It will no doubt be gone for months and if it fails again I will definitely give up.

BTW - you gave me some good advice last year about Märklin's VT 11.5. When my trains went away last spring it was the last one to get put away and it was the first to hit the track this year when my layout returned. All of that heavy metal running so smooth and strong - it is indeed a sight to see it run! Even though I have only had it for one year it is definitely one my very favorite trains. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline franciscohg  
#36 Posted : 23 March 2017 21:11:42(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,265
Location: Patagonia
Hi Jim, glad you are happy with your VT 11.5
If your loco runs all functions and just has bad running behaviour, it is very unlikely that you could make any harm swapping decoders, wich was just what i wanted to suggest you. Go for it!
I must say that this was just what i did to finally identify the problem with that little Brawa, after checking all connections, ground, and messing with the deco cvs
regards
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline jvuye  
#37 Posted : 23 March 2017 23:37:59(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim, glad you are happy with your VT 11.5
If your loco runs all functions and just has bad running behaviour, it is very unlikely that you could make any harm swapping decoders, wich was just what i wanted to suggest you. Go for it!
I must say that this was just what i did to finally identify the problem with that little Brawa, after checking all connections, ground, and messing with the deco cvs
regards


Sorry to play that role of the "paranoid", but I'd be cautious simply swapping decoders: if indeed the motor is shorted or defective , you might destroy a second decoder.
So I'd suggest an intermediate step: after removing the original decoder, and with **nothing** plugged in the decoder socket, test the motor by feeding it DC directly to the brushes connection
If it doesn't run or smokes or start smelling really bad BigGrin , you know it's probably dead.
If it runs normally in both directions (by inverting polarity) you are good to go for a decoder swap.
My two cents...probably worth about 50 $ at least!Cool

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Cyborg  
#38 Posted : 24 March 2017 00:03:21(UTC)
Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
A local shop here told me a few days ago that Roco and Marklin repairs have to go to Germany even if you buy the locos from them or any store.

And I pay the shipping - both ways, I think.

It seems Mike here is the exception to the rule. BigGrin ThumpUp

I never paid a penny for repairs under warranty.


I think this is a trend that results from the fact that the dealer does NOT get paid to make repairs under warranty. The work done is at no gain to the dealer.


Hello all,

I live in Australia & last year I bought a Marklin 37923 locomotive from modellbahnshop-lippe. After about a month, one of the screws that secured one of the side rods to the wheel fell out and was lost. I contacted them and they told me to send the locomotive back to them and they would refund the postage cost by way of their points system. I did this and the locomotive was sent by them to Marklin for repair. They then sent it back to me at no cost. This is why I buy from them as their customer service is fantastic. They are a little more expensive than, say, Lokshop but you can be confident that they will support you should the item fail.

regards

Paul
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Offline dickinsonj  
#39 Posted : 24 March 2017 00:51:42(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post

Hello all,

I live in Australia & last year I bought a Marklin 37923 locomotive from modellbahnshop-lippe. After about a month, one of the screws that secured one of the side rods to the wheel fell out and was lost. I contacted them and they told me to send the locomotive back to them and they would refund the postage cost by way of their points system. I did this and the locomotive was sent by them to Marklin for repair. They then sent it back to me at no cost. This is why I buy from them as their customer service is fantastic. They are a little more expensive than, say, Lokshop but you can be confident that they will support you should the item fail.

regards

Paul


Hello Paul,

Thanks for that input - modellbahnshop-lippe has been very professional up to this point and it is good to know that the problem will most likely be handled properly if I do invest in the shipping cost. Some online estimates suggest that it might cost less than $50 USD and if that is the case I will probably go ahead. If it is much more I will have to think about this some more. They did not make any offers or promises at all concerning covering my shipping costs however.

Francisco and Jacques have both offered debugging ideas that I have to think about as an alternative. Although the US ESU branch sells and warranties decoders and other ESU electronics, they do not have the ability to replace anything in that model under warranty, even a faulty decoder. If I had bought just the decoder from them I would be set. So if I find that it is the motor I would have to send it back because shipping would cost less than the motor would and that is probably true for the decoder also.

I am just thinking of this as a learning experience, since I am still in the steep part of the learning curve of being basically my own dealer and buying everything online. Although some of my Märklin trains are over 25 years old I just started running and buying new equipment last year. Before that I had a couple of excellent brick and mortar dealers who treated me very well. I had too much faith that it would all just work out somehow where the reality is that all the model railroad companies have small but significant failure rates and you need to consider that you might not be done paying for that shiny new toy, even though it is still in warranty. That is something that I have to admit I had not thought about enough up until now.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Jabez  
#40 Posted : 24 March 2017 01:54:29(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: Cyborg;542875

I live in Australia & Go to Quoted Post


I can heartily second your comments on customer service at MSL (modellbahnshop-lippe). Overall costs depend on where you live, but here in Europe their prices are mostly unbeatable when you figure in their 3-4% discount points in kind vs the 3% extra that some others charge on credit card purchases and their 1 Euro shipping charge on orders of Euro 100 or more. If you have to return items that prove faulty they send you a free voucher for return shipping.
Viva MSL.
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
Offline ixldoc  
#41 Posted : 24 March 2017 03:25:25(UTC)
ixldoc

Australia   
Joined: 18/11/2015(UTC)
Posts: 220
Location: Brisbane,Australia
Hi Jim,
I would go with Jacques on this. A simple diagnostic approach with little to no risk of damaging anything.
Regards,
Howard.
Offline dickinsonj  
#42 Posted : 24 March 2017 13:03:32(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: ixldoc Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim,
I would go with Jacques on this. A simple diagnostic approach with little to no risk of damaging anything.
Regards,
Howard.

I did put a meter on the wires leading to the motor and even as the sounds ramp up and down I see no voltage being supplied, so I think it is indeed a dead decoder. I am not sure how I would go about generating the DC power though, since all of my power supplies are Märklin AC units. I agree that this is a safe way to test it and should not damage anything if done correctly. If it was not still in warranty that would probably be my first thing to try.

But from what I can tell my only hope for warranty help is to ship it off to Germany and that will almost surely cost less than buying an expensive LokSound decoder. I am going to check out shipping rates next week and I will report back on what I decided to do.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline river6109  
#43 Posted : 24 March 2017 13:15:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Jim, this is what I do send the loksound decoder away with its warranty paper and usually get it back within a month, free of charge, which makes a lot of difference, as we all know they are not cheap and can save you a lot fo money in the long run.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline dickinsonj  
#44 Posted : 24 March 2017 13:29:51(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Jim, this is what I do send the loksound decoder away with its warranty paper and usually get it back within a month, free of charge, which makes a lot of difference, as we all know they are not cheap and can save you a lot of money in the long run.

John


Hi John,

Have you done this with a decoder that was removed from an ESU loco which was still in warranty? The US ESU rep sent me a link to the ESU warranty rules and it says that the problem has to be resolved through the dealer I bought it from. I guess I can contact ESU support directly and see what they have to say. When you look at the inside of the loco you see how complicated and tightly packed things are and I wonder if it will ever really be reliable.

What I really want is to have been smarter and just not bought this thing in the first place but it is just a bit late for that little bit of insight. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#45 Posted : 24 March 2017 15:22:09(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ixldoc Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jim,
I would go with Jacques on this. A simple diagnostic approach with little to no risk of damaging anything.
Regards,
Howard.

I did put a meter on the wires leading to the motor and even as the sounds ramp up and down I see no voltage being supplied, so I think it is indeed a dead decoder. I am not sure how I would go about generating the DC power though, since all of my power supplies are Märklin AC units. I agree that this is a safe way to test it and should not damage anything if done correctly. If it was not still in warranty that would probably be my first thing to try.

But from what I can tell my only hope for warranty help is to ship it off to Germany and that will almost surely cost less than buying an expensive LokSound decoder. I am going to check out shipping rates next week and I will report back on what I decided to do.


Use a PP3 9V battery to check the motor. The cost of the battery will be small enough that it will be worth doing to confirm if the motor blew up the decoder.

Offline dickinsonj  
#46 Posted : 24 March 2017 15:43:14(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post

Use a PP3 9V battery to check the motor. The cost of the battery will be small enough that it will be worth doing to confirm if the motor blew up the decoder.


Thanks Alan - that is a big help. I will look for a nine volt battery and consider trying that - I was not sure how many amps it would need to generate to get a response from the motor. I don't see how it could hurt anything though and I would know more about what really is going on with that guy. The motor does turn smoothly and easily so it is not a mechanical failure in the drivetrain.

But it really is a simple system and I agree that this problem pretty much has to be either the motor or the decoder. Part of my problem is that all of this is way too much like what I do for money most days of the week. This hobby is supposed to be to get away from software and high tech hardware and give me a chance to enjoy something simpler for a change. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline dickinsonj  
#47 Posted : 27 March 2017 19:55:30(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Here is an update on my ESU 31089.

The lowest cost I could find to ship it back to Modellbahnshop-lippe would be over €200, which is insane for a "free" warranty repair on a €330 loco. I can buy two new LokSound decoders for less than that, so in reality locos that I buy from outside the US do not really have any warranty. A fellow forum user (biedmatt) lives fairly close by and he is going to help me figure out what is wrong with this thing. He has replaced all of the original Märklin electronics in his locos with ESU parts and he does beautiful work. I just feel bad that he is going to end up working on a model that I was dumb enough to buy!

So my fling with ESU locos is now officially over! My Märklin V200 is quite primitive by comparison to the ESU V200 but it works perfectly and that is seeming like a very, very good thing at this point. Overall ESU loco quality may be fine, as many here on the forum have said in the past. But since they don't sell them in the US I will not ever take that risk again.

Expensive lesson learned! Blushing
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline GlennM  
#48 Posted : 28 March 2017 12:31:42(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Here is an update on my ESU 31089.

The lowest cost I could find to ship it back to Modellbahnshop-lippe would be over €200, ........................ Blushing


Was that hand delivered?
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline dickinsonj  
#49 Posted : 28 March 2017 14:10:43(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post

Was that hand delivered?

Nope - that was the best price that FedEx offers for their slowest shipping. I did not check every shipper but they often have the lowest international rates. I had to return my VT 95.9 railbus to a dealer in Canada and US Postal Service charged me just over €40 for that! I don't know when or why international shipping from the US became so costly - but I also know I won't be buying from outside of the US again.

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline H0  
#50 Posted : 28 March 2017 14:27:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
The lowest cost I could find to ship it back to Modellbahnshop-lippe would be over €200
Maybe look here:
https://www.myus.com/pricing/calculate-shipping/ (cheapest result: USD 32.39)

Or try this:
https://www.parcelmonkey.com/info/germany# (cheapest result: $32.36)

Several choices for less than US$ 65.

You shouldn't have to pay any export taxes as it is going back temporarily for repairs.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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