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Offline PeFu  
#1 Posted : 16 February 2017 11:52:16(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 913
I have installed some new Märklin 24624 C track DKW for the first time, the one with pre-installed magnetic "motor". It has a complex mechanism, and only one of 4 decoder outputs are required using the Littfinski (LDT) S-DEC-4-MM. However, it seems like the output power is too weak, as it happens that a "frog" doesn't move completely. Switching the turnout manually is no problem... Would you have any suggestion on how to solve this?

Edited by user 23 February 2017 01:17:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
Offline franciscohg  
#2 Posted : 16 February 2017 14:20:07(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,127
Location: Patagonia
Hi, i would not thought that this problem could happen with C track. I had a similar problem with M double switches, one advice was to use Viessmann decoders wich also have a power input. In the end i gave power to the solenoids via a separarate power source and controlled with the digital signal trough relays. It worked fine with standard marklin decoders.
Regards
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 16 February 2017 14:35:30(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,425
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
I have installed some new Märklin 24624 C track DKW for the first time, the one with pre-installed magnetic "motor". It has a complex mechanism, and only one of 4 decoder outputs are required using the Littfinski (LDT) S-DEC-4-MM. However, it seems like the output power is too weak, as it happens that a "frog" doesn't move completely. Switching the turnout manually is no problem... Would you have any suggestion on how to solve this?


This sounds like the pulse from the decoder is not long enough.

What controller are you using? Does it have configurable pulse lengths for the decoders? I would suggest changing it to double whatever it is set to if it can be changed.

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Offline PeFu  
#4 Posted : 16 February 2017 15:59:04(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 913
Originally Posted by: franciscohg Go to Quoted Post
Hi, i would not thought that this problem could happen with C track. I had a similar problem with M double switches, one advice was to use Viessmann decoders wich also have a power input. In the end i gave power to the solenoids via a separarate power source and controlled with the digital signal trough relays. It worked fine with standard marklin decoders.
Regards


The S-DEC-4-MM can also manage separate power. Would you know how "much" power the 24624 motor can take?

Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


This sounds like the pulse from the decoder is not long enough.

What controller are you using? Does it have configurable pulse lengths for the decoders? I would suggest changing it to double whatever it is set to if it can be changed.


I'm on CS2, I tried extending to 300 msec, but no real improvement...

Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
Offline Rwill  
#5 Posted : 16 February 2017 16:32:42(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 762
Location: England, London
Here is “the village idiots” completely non-technical response. As I understand it the original manual 24620 encountered problems when people tried to mount or dismount turnout motor 74490/91 the complex mechanism very often ending up as a bag of bits after such endeavours so they factory fitted the turnout motor and called it a 24624.
So when I have issues with any c track turnout with motor fitted I go through a series of “checks” provided the culprit is nor deeply embedded in the layout and can be test benched.
1) A good and vigorous multiple manual jiggle to loosen the track mechanism
2) Maybe a squirt of electrical contact cleaner
3) A good old fashioned yellow and brown jolt direct from a transformer on both sides and a couple of times. If it is not working here you have a problem and may have to start dismantling things or send it back to whence it came.
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Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 16 February 2017 16:43:05(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,777
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I'm assuming we are talking about the double slip? I'm not familiar with the "DKW" abbreviation.

I have a 24620 double slip which was included in one of the C track extension packs. I fitted it myself with a 74490 turnout motor and operate it with a manual switch box.

Even with "analogue" power the mechanism is sluggish and one of the four sets of blades often does not switch over all the way. Repeated cleaning and light lubrication keeps it moving, but I fear the problem is lack of strength in the turnout motor to overcome the inherent friction in the mechanism. All my electromagnetic devices are powered from a 6001 transformer so presumably get around 16V AC. I am thinking of trying to swap the power from the analogue to the digital feed which I believe is a bit higher in voltage, but I'm loath to do this as I would then have no control of the turnout when I'm operating the layout in analogue mode.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 16 February 2017 17:22:00(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,425
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Another way to do it with a DKW would be to use a servo as mentioned in this thread but that would involve using a different decoder.

The mechanism in the double swicth has always been problematic because there is so much to move and so many friction points that support the plastic moving pieces so they don't bend. There is just so much opportunity for lost motion and friction they would have been better off having two point motors like the early 3600 series M track.

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Offline franciscohg  
#8 Posted : 16 February 2017 20:58:47(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,127
Location: Patagonia
Hi, i dont know how much current they can take, since they can be operate in analog, 16 VAC should be no problem, but as it has been pointed out it may be not enough either.
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 16 February 2017 21:39:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,332
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I am thinking of trying to swap the power from the analogue to the digital feed which I believe is a bit higher in voltage
When "digital" means "MS2 with 18 V DC power supply" then I don't think the digital voltage will be higher - at least not much higher.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline PeFu  
#10 Posted : 23 February 2017 01:38:05(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 913
As I'm still building the Hidden Station, I only feeded the LDT S-DEC-4-MM decoder with main digital power, i.e. no separate power. Mr. Littfinski adviced me to test the separate power feature, either with maximum 24 Volt DC or 18 Volt AC. I tried with 20 Volt DC, and now all four 24624 DKW:s are working like a charm! There is even no need to extend the switch time above default in Railroad & Co TrainController Cool
Inspired by Swiss railways SBB and BLS | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V9
Youtube Channel for the Andreasburg-Mattiasberg layout
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Offline franciscohg  
#11 Posted : 23 February 2017 03:00:51(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,127
Location: Patagonia
Top! So power is the answer💪💪💪
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 12 December 2018 12:36:21(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,798
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Not too sure if I am one of the "Village idiots"BigGrin but having some of these double switch 24620 and 24624 (some of them 20 years old), I found that -by completely opening their mechanism, there are 2 long steel rods which directly drive the 4 points. If those bars are slightly bent vertically, they may cause increased friction which is the most common cause of problems.
Before opening the double switch, this can be checked by verifying the small steel bar driving each of the four points: if the bar is pushing up or down the point pair then, an adjustment is needed. The steel bar should be free to move up or down (I mean vertically).

Never try this on a very old 24620 because the plastic may break. We are talking about very small adjustments. Also it is good to take a picture of the mechanism as a reference if the small parts are dislodged. Do not use any oil, WD40 but only some dry silicon lubricant.
Cheers

Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline Chris6382chris  
#13 Posted : 12 December 2018 13:02:18(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,169
Location: Middle of the US
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
I have installed some new Märklin 24624 C track DKW for the first time, the one with pre-installed magnetic "motor". It has a complex mechanism, and only one of 4 decoder outputs are required using the Littfinski (LDT) S-DEC-4-MM. However, it seems like the output power is too weak, as it happens that a "frog" doesn't move completely. Switching the turnout manually is no problem... Would you have any suggestion on how to solve this?


I have found the problem for me with the double slip switch to always me the wires from the decoder get in the way with on of the mechanical switching components underneath. I can manually throw the switch but the tangle is just enough to cause the blades to only move a small amount when done with the motor. I know this sounds basic and simple but I’d make sure you don’t have a decoder sure somehow interfering with the switch mechanism before I do anything.
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