So there I was reading Stummiforum on which Car System control architecture to use: DC Car or OpenCar and someone in on US east coast indicates that due to the position of TrainController company Freiwald, they won't be using TC anymore; apparently Freiwald is no longer selling to some US states.

My first thought was, what sort of poor businessman would make such a decision? Sure consumers protest all the time by refusing to do business with a company, but what sort of business refuses to take customers from specific geographic regions... let me go investigate on the Freiwald english language forum.

What the? Seriously? OK, one is free to shoot oneself in the foot. Seems that is what Freiwald is doing.

To summarize what Freiwald has dedided:

Post Jan 20, 2017, Freiwald will no longer sell its products to those particular USA states (the major political subdivisions of he US) where the current President had received a favorable outcome. I say favorable outcome because its not clear what disqualifies a state's residents from buying TC and related products. One can presume that it is those states where the President won an electoral majority.

Beyond the basic folly of allowing political interest to drive your revenue stream by refusing to accept customers with money (which really makes Freiwald somewhat akin to the right wing ideology I suspect they are strongly against), there is the basic problem of Freiwald not understanding the mathematics of the US election system.

Registered voters in all 50 states and territories can vote in a Presidential Election. Of those eligible to vote, a subset of those are actually registered to vote. Nevermind that children under 18 (who may be railroad hobbyists) cannot vote. It was estimated that around 67% of the eligible citizens are registered, only 58% went and actually voted. Of those, the state winning candidate only got 47-68% of the vote. None of this takes into account that the voters don't actually directly elect the US President, and in that separate election some states selected folks who were not even running for US President as their choice.

So Freiwald decided that 27-40% adults of a state got to determine whether 100% of the residents of that state (including all of the children) are eligible to purchase TrainController and related software. From a business perspective, this seems like a very stupid decision.

Nevermind that the US President is the president of all 50 of the US states and all territories, regardless of whether a state voted for him in the electoral balloting. If Freiwald would act fully on its own logic it should cease doing business with the United States entirely. But logic nor sense are behind Freiwald's decision.

I guess it is Freiwald's position that Americans should buy JMRI to run their layouts.

Reference: http://www.freiwald.com/...pic.php?f=10&t=28317

Hi Minok,

I agree that it seems like a poor business decision and out of date.

Mr. Friewald, my impression, can be very outspoken and direct. E.g. It is the first software company I know of that is publically encouraging exsisting users not to update their software with a new update if exsisting is working fine without bugs. Only new users should install the latest version.

When you read his post on his website I believe his desicion purely relates to views on global trade and to protect American made product.

It seems a bit childless and a tit for tat statement. German users may correct me, but I read it with a bit of German humour "glasses on" and I guess sale has been so small to the US that it won't hurt them too much. The fact that he made the decision on 20 Jan indicates it has nothing to do with very recent events in US politics.

Brgds Lasse

Funny how that seems to happen, isn't it?

As I understand it, their webshop is now closed for those states.
I would assume that customers from those "blacklisted" states still can get the software through one of the distributors. And maybe even by sending an order form to Freiwald.

The company surely makes a political statement (and we are not allowed to discuss politics here).
I hope I do not violate any forum rule when I write that I think it is wrong to discriminate citizens of any state just based on the votes given in that state.

Märklin do not sell spare parts to the US through their webshop. But at least they treat all US states the same way (and there is no political statement involved).

Do not forget two things:

1. The shop has to pay for the shipment from Germany to the US shop; and

2. The exchange in REAL terms is higher than the official one, especially if the purchase is paid by credit cards.

The local Marklin shop here charges just about the same price as in Germany, discounted by the local VAT and then adding HST. That makes it easy to know if a model is affordable before even calling Mike.

Isn't that more because there is a US distributor?

This is a normal way of doing business if there is a local distributor so you don't take business away from the distributor.

Yeah, except that doesn't account for things properly. For one the only thing that needs to be delivered is electronic (software download already, just email the license activation code), but even if they had to ship a printed book and CD in a box (for business regulation reasons, lets say) then I'd expect the shipping to be $40 (the fee for a DHL package like a locomotive from Lokshop) that seems standardized.

The exchange rate and credit card fees can just as well be on my side: the exchange rates only differ be a percent at most from published rates, and CC fees are around 3% at most. CC currency fees (if any) are born by ME if I'm paying them in €. So even with the added physical shipping charges and CC fees and exchange rates the price should still come in under the 19% German VAT price.

Windigipet is 449 euro, iTrains is 299 euro, both prices are for the premium / professional versions.

Hi everybdoy

I possess Itrain. The version in 299 euros is the professionnal version. It is not necessary for a personnal layout. There are 4 versions Itrains ( from 99 euros to 299 euros )
The most used is, I think, the version '' Plus '' (229 euros), as mine.
But with the standard version (179 euros), you can make a good job

here :

https://www.berros.eu/fr/itrain/pricing.php

Thewolf

xxup is our resident Windigipet expert.

Windigipet website:- http://www.windigipet.de/foren/index.php

Thanks for the insight. So does WDP support both DC Car and OpenCar standards as well?

For the manual stuff, it sounds like WDP does do thing well. As the human operator, if I have signal lights properly deployed at the start of blocks, all I'd have to do is obey the signals and I'd assume there would never be a crash between the automated stuff from WDP and my manual control, correct? That is, if I manually drive into a block at a green light, WDP would see the detection... but would it then assume this may be a train WDP had release to go into the block (that just hasn't gotten there yet) or can it know that it is a train that wasn't under computer control ?

(I think I'm deviating from the original thread too much and should start another thread on this but want to ask the follow up now while I remember. )

Yes I know this. But if set up right they would reflect whether a block is vacant or not. It's a reflection of the competes state knowledge isn't it? So if the computer sets the signal to green, presumably because the block it demarcates, then it would be safe to enter the block.

The only question is if the computer software would know that the train that just entered the block is a hand controlled train or mistaken for a computer controlled train heading to the same block?

I.e. Can an operator inject a hand controlled train in between computer controlled trains if the opportunity presents itself and rely on the software detecting that and handling things well ( setting signal to red and stopping any of its trains coming once they hit the signal?

Indeed. Hence the need to use a mobile phone app or similar system that allows remote controller like operation that is router through the software layout control.

Hi Adrian,
Are you using the Small version or the Premium one? I see the small version only allows 20 locomotives but doesn't make clear if that is 20 allowed or more allowed but 20 running at one time. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Roger

I am using the Premium version. When I started with WDP about 13 years ago, there was no small version.

As I understand it, you can only add 20 locos into the locomotive database. If a loco is not in the database, then it can't run on the layout. So 20 is a maximum for running at any time too.

However, this is not the real limitation of WDP as I only ever had 12 locos/trains running on our biggest layout. Things like being able to partially release a long route are an absolute must for me and not available in the small version.



Here is the full specification from their website:
Features of Win Digipet 2015 Small Edition

- Win Digipet Small supports up to 2 digital systems at the same time that are connected via a unique COM, LAN or USB port.

- Win Digipet Small supports the central stations of MÄRKLIN, ESU, TAMS-ELEKTRONIK, UHLENBROCK, FLEISCHMANN, ROCO, TRIX, MÜT, RAUTENHAUS, MODELLPLAN, STÄRZ, CT-ELEKTRONIK, MASSOTH, LENZ, THORSTEN MUMM, FALLER, D&H-MTTM, MODELLEISENBAHN CLAUS

- The Win Digipet Small track diagram can be up to 75 track symbol fields in the width and up to 50 in the hight. That's a maximum size of 3'750 track symbol fields.

- Win Digipet Small offers 1379 different symbols for the track diagram that are available in two zoom levels (16/20 pixels).

- Route navigator - simple driving from point A to point B without entering routes

- iTND - intelligent train number display - allows a constant deceleration and stopping of a train

- There are no locomotive or waggon pictures available within Win Digipet Small 2012. However you can use your own pictures or those of a different database (e.g. Collection).

- Win-Digipet 2015 Small offers a complete new joystick control of the locomotives and cranes that even make freaks happy.

- You can control up to 20 locomotives with Win Digipet Small.

- You can switch up to 50 real solenoids and countless virtual solenoids by clicking or via the 40'000 possible routes.

- Very convenient creation of routes with the new route assistant with Win Digipet Small.

- Win Digipet Small offers check routines within all editors that show any discovered errors and warnings in a list.

- Tour automatic with demand contacts (like the automatic with demand contacts in the preceding version), but without add-on-/follow-on-routes and -tours and also without time control. Some basic conditions like solenoid device/feedback contact state, loco colour, loco direction and train length are included.

- Simple tours without alternative ways.

- Win Digipet Small timetable system for block control, fiddle yard control, and compleatly automatic operations. All trains are controlled using time and distances to run your timetable system on your layout.

- Programming and controlling of Märklin's digital turntable or moving table. You can control them right from the track diagram.

- Well known program parts of the Win Digipet 2015 Premium Edition as profiles, dispatcher, intelligent turntable, tour navigator, locomotive and wagon monitor, smart-phone app (Win Digipet mobile), and crane control are not included in the Win Digipet Small Edition.

- Security contacts and partial route release of routes, locomotive traction, train composition, intelligent control of the turntable, and counter functions are limited to the 2015 Premium Edition.

- Win Digipet Small comes with an online manual on the CD. There is no printed manual.

- You can upgrade to Win Digipet 2015 Premium Edition at any time by sending back the Small Edition and paying an upgrade price.

Ugh, thats what I was afraid of. :(