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Offline ParisTsirchoglou  
#1 Posted : 10 February 2017 21:13:27(UTC)
ParisTsirchoglou

Greece   
Joined: 01/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 118
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Hello Everybody.

Just wondering why Marklin is not producing any British Steam Locomotives. I know of a Harry Potter set, but that's all. I mean there are so many great British Steamers that I would love to see produced by Marklin. What about a Flying Scotsman or a Mallard?

Any reason Marklin is not interested on those locos?

Regards

Paris
Era I and Era II German and Swiss Steamers and E-Loks. Proud owner of a Challenger (-;
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 10 February 2017 21:24:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,630
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Paris!
Originally Posted by: ParisTsirchoglou Go to Quoted Post
I know of a Harry Potter set, but that's all.
And that one was a Hornby loco in a Märklin box (assuming we are talking about H0 gauge).

There also was the Warship diesel and some continental steamers in UK liveries.

Märklin has a small market share in the UK and the Brexit won't make selling there easier.
And demand amongst continental Märklin fans probably does not justify making moulds for the UK.
I think Märklin would make more models of British prototypes if that promised huge profits.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Mark_1602  
#3 Posted : 10 February 2017 21:59:24(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: ParisTsirchoglou Go to Quoted Post

Just wondering why Marklin is not producing any British Steam Locomotives.
Paris


Hi,

Märklin lost the British market a long time ago, when World War II started, but even after the war ended, Märklin's sales in the UK never recovered. In 1967, Märklin made a rather unsuccessful attempt to produce a British-inspired locomotive, the Warship Class (3073), but without releasing any matching coaches or wagons. That locomotive is popular with vintage collectors now because the first version in the light blue illustrated box is quite rare. It didn't really sell, though the second version from the 1970s appears to be more common.

How many Märklin users would buy a British locomotive now, in a shrinking MRR market? I'd say a lot less than in the 1960s, so that wouldn't be a profitable venture.

Best regards,

Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline jvuye  
#4 Posted : 10 February 2017 22:20:04(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: ParisTsirchoglou Go to Quoted Post
Hello Everybody.

Just wondering why Marklin is not producing any British Steam Locomotives. I know of a Harry Potter set, but that's all. I mean there are so many great British Steamers that I would love to see produced by Marklin. What about a Flying Scotsman or a Mallard?

Any reason Marklin is not interested on those locos?

Regards

Paris


There is one simple reason I can think of: scale!
Märklin, like practically everyone else in the world produces HO 1:87 scale models.
The British market is modelling in 00 gauge, i.e. 1:72 scale.
Personally I'd too would love to see some Märklin made quality British steamers (LNER A3, A4, Black Fives, LMS Coronation, Princess Class, BR Evening Star, etc...°
But chances are slim to none.
So I have a few 1:72 locos from Hornby, duly converted to 3 rail...


Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline dickinsonj  
#5 Posted : 11 February 2017 02:34:24(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,526
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

Personally I'd too would love to see some Märklin made quality British steamers (LNER A3, A4, Black Fives, LMS Coronation, Princess Class, BR Evening Star, etc...°
But chances are slim to none.

Unfortunately I agree.

I collect special locos and trains from around the world and IMO some of the very finest steam locos ever made, were made in Britain. They tend to be ultra clean designs with perfect proportions. Jacques lists some of my particular favorites and there are even more to aspire to if they made all of them. Cool

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline xxup  
#6 Posted : 11 February 2017 05:22:56(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,371
Location: Australia
I would love to see the Flying Scotsman on my layout in proper H0 scale.. With some nice wagons.. The loco has been literally around the world - it was in Australia in 1988 for our bi-centennial celebrations and it has been in the USA too.. It would be a great "Get lost Poms" from Germany present for Britexit.. LOL
Adrian
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Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline baggio  
#7 Posted : 11 February 2017 06:12:31(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,718
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I would love to see the Flying Scotsman on my layout in proper H0 scale.


Does the scale matter that much?

I mean, even if it's 20% bigger than the other Marklin locos, if you like the train that much, would you not still enjoy watching it run majestically on the track (after conversion to 3 rail, obviously) with maybe three matching wagons?

Flying Scotsman
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Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 11 February 2017 06:57:27(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,599
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ParisTsirchoglou Go to Quoted Post
Hello Everybody.
Just wondering why Marklin is not producing any British Steam Locomotives.
Any reason Marklin is not interested on those locos?

Regards

Paris


There is one simple reason I can think of: scale!
Märklin, like practically everyone else in the world produces HO 1:87 scale models.
The British market is modelling in 00 gauge, i.e. 1:72 scale.
Personally I'd too would love to see some Märklin made quality British steamers (LNER A3, A4, Black Fives, LMS Coronation, Princess Class, BR Evening Star, etc...°
But chances are slim to none.



United Kingdom do have 1,435 mm on the track while theirs locomotive slightly bigger than European locomotives.
The scale on the tracks is correct but the body of the locomotives and wagons is not the same.
It´s all matter of interesting in the market.
Some produce difference scale too.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline jvuye  
#9 Posted : 11 February 2017 10:47:32(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I would love to see the Flying Scotsman on my layout in proper H0 scale.


Does the scale matter that much?

I mean, even if it's 20% bigger than the other Marklin locos, if you like the train that much, would you not still enjoy watching it run majestically on the track (after conversion to 3 rail, obviously) with maybe three matching wagons?

Flying Scotsman


You are so right.
Frankly I like that one so much and her cousin Mallard that they are both permanently in my display cabinet, and regularly operate on my layout! Cool

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Online Rwill  
#10 Posted : 11 February 2017 11:07:00(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 773
Location: England, London
Probably the best ever model of the Flying Scotsman was made in Ho scale in brass by Precision Scale Models (of Australia) in 1995ish - but its not three rail and is as rare as hens teeth. There is still a small following of UK outline 1:87 people and they do look superb. Look her : http://www.british-ho.com/
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Offline steventrain  
#11 Posted : 11 February 2017 12:16:54(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,491
Location: United Kingdom
I have Marklin British warship 3073.

UserPostedImage
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#12 Posted : 11 February 2017 19:19:31(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,012
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ParisTsirchoglou Go to Quoted Post
Hello Everybody.
Just wondering why Marklin is not producing any British Steam Locomotives.
Any reason Marklin is not interested on those locos?

Regards

Paris


There is one simple reason I can think of: scale!
Märklin, like practically everyone else in the world produces HO 1:87 scale models.
The British market is modelling in 00 gauge, i.e. 1:72 scale.
Personally I'd too would love to see some Märklin made quality British steamers (LNER A3, A4, Black Fives, LMS Coronation, Princess Class, BR Evening Star, etc...°
But chances are slim to none.



United Kingdom do have 1,435 mm on the track while theirs locomotive slightly bigger than European locomotives.
The scale on the tracks is correct but the body of the locomotives and wagons is not the same.
It´s all matter of interesting in the market.
Some produce difference scale too.



No, other way around. The British loading gauge is smaller than the European one. It is not possible to run European rolling stock in the UK where there are tunnels, and some bridges are too low. They are having to replace bridges out my way as they electrify the Great Western Railway from London to Bristol. Before WW2 there was European rolling stock made for cross channel transport of goods which had a smaller profile so they could travel across to the UK on ferries and travel on the UK rail network. These were lettered on the outside as suitable for this use. When seen in photos against standard European profile wagons the difference in height is quite noticeable.

It is because UK rolling stock is smaller than European that manufacturers of early UK models used 1:72 instead of 1:87 as the scale, even though they used the same gauge track, so they could use motors that were available in the engines. The same happened with N scale where UK models are made as 1:148 instead of 1:160.

The difference in scale is a major reason that Marklin

Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 11 February 2017 19:23:58(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,012
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
I have Marklin British warship 3073.



I wouldn't mind getting one of those, but they go for silly prices because of their rarity.

I think the only reason Marklin made that one is because they could do it with minimal modification to the V200 they were already producing, which is understandable as I understand the prototype was based on the V200.

It also allowed them to test the market with minimal effort, and I suspect that the result in terms of sales meant the size of market wasn't worth following up with anything else.

Offline danmarklinman  
#14 Posted : 11 February 2017 20:41:07(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,328
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
I have Marklin British warship 3073.

UserPostedImage


I think a Mallard would sell, if it had some coaches. Even in HO. At least it would look right next to a big boy in someone's collection. And not a dodgy out of scale 1:72 00 scale?
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 11 February 2017 21:07:44(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,799
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I'm not sure if others are aware but Lima entered the UK market originally with HO 1:87 scale models of British prototypes. I remember they made a class 33 diesel and an LMS 4F steam loco among others.

It was a disaster and after a very short production run they scrapped the HO range and started producing models in 00 scale to fit in with other British manufacturers. By the way 00 is 1:76 and not 1:72 as quoted above.

Those Lima HO British models are now quite rare and collectors value them more highly now than when they were made.

I don't think anyone has ever successfully sold British HO models. The UK modelling fraternity is too firmly entrenched in 00 and will totally ignore any HO models. There is a small group that does specialise in British HO, but they are very much a minority interest group.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline baggio  
#16 Posted : 11 February 2017 23:25:22(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,718
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
It was a disaster and after a very short production they scrapped the HO range and started producing models in 00 scale to fit in with other British manufacturers.By the way 00 is 1:76 and not 1:72 as quoted above.


Lima can be a good deal on some locos. I bought an FSE 424 in different livery from the Isabel in my avatar and it runs very nicely:

LimaFSE424.jpg

Unfortunately, another loco did not fare so well - a Hobby Line by Hornby Lima, HO scale, VERY rough engine - not really fun to use: HL2100 diesel D.445FS:

hl2100 Bad Lima loco.jpg

AS much as The Flying Scotsman appeals to me, I would prefer to buy a Pendolino: ThumpUp

r1155-virgin-trains-pendolino-3d-box.jpg

Question: would a Pendolino run well on our HO scale tracks?

Thanks.

Silvano
Offline RayF  
#17 Posted : 11 February 2017 23:36:27(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,799
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Quote:
Question: would a Pendolino run well on our HO scale tracks?


As a 2-rail model it would run best on 2-rail tracks.

I don't think you get the most satisfactory experience when you try to run 2 rail and 3 rail together. I would recommend running 2 rail models on separate circuits of 2 rail track.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline baggio  
#18 Posted : 11 February 2017 23:55:00(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,718
Location: Toronto
You may be right, Ray.

But my question had to do with the size of the tracks - OO VS HO.

Does this make any difference to the stability of the train (that in this case swings a bit).

Thanks.
Offline NewMB  
#19 Posted : 12 February 2017 06:43:54(UTC)
NewMB

Germany   
Joined: 26/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 668
Location: Erftstadt
I have the Harry Potter set + the extra wagons set. Its actually a really nice model but one can easily tell by touching it that its not the usual Märklin quality. I also have a few UK Hornby models that are simply staying in the display cabinet.

Offline Carim  
#20 Posted : 12 February 2017 11:26:30(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 586
Location: London
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post

But my question had to do with the size of the tracks - OO VS HO.



The track gauge for OO and HO is the same: 16.5mm.

This actually means that it is too narrow for true British 4mm scale trains and so led to the development of EM gauge and P4 gauge - you can look them up on Wikipedia for a full discussion of their development.

Carim
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Offline RayF  
#21 Posted : 12 February 2017 11:38:41(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,799
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
You may be right, Ray.

But my question had to do with the size of the tracks - OO VS HO.

Does this make any difference to the stability of the train (that in this case swings a bit).

Thanks.


The gauge of the tracks is 16.5 mm in both OO and HO, but the dimensions of some of the turnout parts will vary (crossing, check rails, etc.) This variation will lead to the train running unevenly through the turnouts and even derailing.

Compromises are possible, but usually involves extra work.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline baggio  
#22 Posted : 12 February 2017 14:31:49(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,718
Location: Toronto
Thank you, Carim and Ray, for your feedback; much appreciated.

I do wonder then if that is the reason for which Hornby does not sell the Pendolino by itself - only as a starter set with track, transformer and more.

That also makes me wonder if one should NOT buy an OO scale loco to put on an HO layout for the same reason.

The only experience I have had with Hornby locos has been a small loco that came with a subscription to their magazine - much like the insider with Marklin.

The loco is very lively light and FAST. A pleasure to run. Maybe it's for this reason that I have not had a problem with it at all.

Have a good Sunday, everyone. BigGrin

In Toronto it's snowing heavily. Woot
Offline Jabez  
#23 Posted : 13 February 2017 02:25:55(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
They are having to replace bridges out my way as they electrify the Great Western Railway from London to Bristol.

A bit off-topic but I think one of the great tales of railroad engineering and organization is how the GWR converted its main-line from London, Paddington to Penzance, Cornwall, via Bristol, 177 miles of track, from 7 ft. broad gauge to 4ft.8½in standard gauge over one weekend in May 1892. The last broad gauge train left on Friday evening, the first standard gauge train departed Monday morning. An amazing feat.ThumpUp

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#24 Posted : 15 February 2017 22:49:22(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,341
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure if others are aware but Lima entered the UK market originally with HO 1:87 scale models of British prototypes. I remember they made a class 33 diesel and an LMS 4F steam loco among others.

It was a disaster and after a very short production run they scrapped the HO range and started producing models in 00 scale to fit in with other British manufacturers. By the way 00 is 1:76 and not 1:72 as quoted above.

Those Lima HO British models are now quite rare and collectors value them more highly now than when they were made.

I don't think anyone has ever successfully sold British HO models. The UK modelling fraternity is too firmly entrenched in 00 and will totally ignore any HO models. There is a small group that does specialise in British HO, but they are very much a minority interest group.


Hi Ray,
Rivarossi also made HO stuff for Britain, including a parallel-boilered Royal Scot in a few different LMS liveries (red, and black).
It was also sold in a set with red LMS coaches, with fine paintwork and detail, and which look to be better than most UK marketed models.

I can only guess that the running quality of these was to a high standard, as were their US models, of which I had quite a few.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline RayF  
#25 Posted : 15 February 2017 23:43:16(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,799
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure if others are aware but Lima entered the UK market originally with HO 1:87 scale models of British prototypes. I remember they made a class 33 diesel and an LMS 4F steam loco among others.

It was a disaster and after a very short production run they scrapped the HO range and started producing models in 00 scale to fit in with other British manufacturers. By the way 00 is 1:76 and not 1:72 as quoted above.

Those Lima HO British models are now quite rare and collectors value them more highly now than when they were made.

I don't think anyone has ever successfully sold British HO models. The UK modelling fraternity is too firmly entrenched in 00 and will totally ignore any HO models. There is a small group that does specialise in British HO, but they are very much a minority interest group.


Hi Ray,
Rivarossi also made HO stuff for Britain, including a parallel-boilered Royal Scot in a few different LMS liveries (red, and black).
It was also sold in a set with red LMS coaches, with fine paintwork and detail, and which look to be better than most UK marketed models.

I can only guess that the running quality of these was to a high standard, as were their US models, of which I had quite a few.

regards
Kimball



Hi Kimball,

I've never heard of the Rivarossi models. Thanks for the info. Do you have any links to more details on these models?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Markus Schild  
#26 Posted : 16 February 2017 00:17:46(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Ray,

look here:

http://www.rivarossi-mem...ni/The_Royal_%20Scot.htm

http://www.rivarossi-mem...va_Loco_Altre_Vapore.htm

Edit: These models are not not exactly 1/87 but 1/80: https://en.wikipedia.org..._Royal_Scot_Class#Models

Regards

Markus

Edited by user 16 February 2017 11:39:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline David Dewar  
#27 Posted : 16 February 2017 21:24:36(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,100
Location: Scotland
Problem in the UK now is the cost of Marklin products. With the fall in the pound plus model rail price increases even dealers are giving up Marklin. I am happy with German and Swiss Locos etc and Faller kits are way beyond anything for 00 gauge.

With Hornby proving better value and plenty of shops selling their stuff I cant see Marklin or any European manufacturer doing much here.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#28 Posted : 18 February 2017 01:45:03(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,341
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Rwill Go to Quoted Post
Probably the best ever model of the Flying Scotsman was made in Ho scale in brass by Precision Scale Models (of Australia) in 1995ish - but its not three rail and is as rare as hens teeth. There is still a small following of UK outline 1:87 people and they do look superb. Look her : http://www.british-ho.com/



Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ray,

look here re Rivarossi: ........

These models are not not exactly 1/87 but 1/80: https://en.wikipedia.org..._Royal_Scot_Class#Models

Regards Markus


The fact that the British HO Rivarossi were only 1:80 probably explains why they don't show up on the HO website quoted by Rwill.

It probably explains why the Fleischmann Warship and Southern Railway coaches don't show up there either.

Societies (as a group mentality) tend to get very scrupulous. Maybe that is for a good reason (limits the following), because indivudual members can do what they like with their modelling efforts.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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