Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
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Märklins new lok programmer is only suitable with the PC,by download and mix with the software program. So with my imac(Apple) i cannot use it. I don´t understand why Märklin didn´t accept the new way of lok programmer for the Mac computer too... Edited by moderator 28 August 2015 21:31:57(UTC)
| Reason: Have updated the topic title to be clearer & moved it into the correct section. /Webmaster |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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You should update the thread title: "LokProgrammer" is an ESU product.
Märklin announced a "Decoder-Programmer".
It seems that both products currently can be used with Windows software only. Windows is the dominating operating system.
Both companies could make software for Mac OS and Linux, too. They would if they thought it would be profitable.
Some announcements wrote that the PC version of the CS2 software would come for Windows, Mac OS, and Linux.
So far we only saw the Windows version. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: H0  You should update the thread title: "LokProgrammer" is an ESU product.
Märklin announced a "Decoder-Programmer".
It seems that both products currently can be used with Windows software only. Windows is the dominating operating system.
Both companies could make software for Mac OS and Linux, too. They would if they thought it would be profitable.
Some announcements wrote that the PC version of the CS2 software would come for Windows, Mac OS, and Linux.
So far we only saw the Windows version. Sorry but lok programmer and decoder programmer is for the decoder. That´s way i did wrote lok programmer,because of the locomotive decoder. ESU lok programmer is an decoder programmer too,but they say lok instead. |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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IMHO a thread title "New lok programmer" suggests that there is something new coming from ESU.
Your question is about a product that Märklin named "Decoder-Programmer" and IMHO it was less confusing to have "Decoder-Programmer" or maybe better "Märklin Decoder-Programmer" in the thread title. You disagree. C’est la vie. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
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Have updated the topic title to be clearer & moved it into the correct section. |
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb] |
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Regarding the software itself I think it is natural - business wise - to launch it for the most common personal computer platform... Maybe the other platforms will be supported later, but that will put more strain on their support contacts... And - ESU also has a PC version only of their LokProgrammer, so I don't really know why you are complaining about Märklin...  |
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb] |
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 Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,266 Location: Hobart, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Webmaster Have updated the topic title to be clearer & moved it into the correct section. Is that our beloved webmaster's photo in the new avatar, or a hero out of a Robert Ludlum novel??  Regards, PJ
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Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,266 Location: Hobart, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Goofy Märklins new lok programmer is only suitable with the PC,by download and mix with the software program.
So with my imac(Apple) i cannot use it.
I don´t understand why Märklin didn´t accept the new way of lok programmer for the Mac computer too... Hello Goofy, Yes, you certainly can! Even though you have in Macintosh (Apple) the best ever computer made for mankind  , you can still step onto the dark side of the earth  and run these PC applications such as the Märklin lok programmer and (even much better) the ESU LokProgrammer on your Mac  . All you have to do is partition your hard-drive with "Bootcamp", install Windows on the partitioned bit and either startup in Windows (press "option" button at startup) or use "parallels" or similar app, then you are running fine in Windows, even though for the vast majority of things in life, Mac is far better Whilst I am an avid Mac fan  , there are some things ( some interesting computer games and apps such as LokProgrammer) that I also want to run, and it all works fine. Send me a PM if you need Mac help here. Regards, PJ (remember, I.B.M. is an acronym that stands for: "I should have Bought Macintosh"
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Originally Posted by: Webmaster ESU also has a PC version only of their LokProgrammer, so I don't really know why you are complaining about Märklin... I did also complaining ESU lokprogrammer and did wrote an PM to ESU. But there was no respons from ESU. Märklin did answered back after two days,when i did stand an question to them. |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: H0 IMHO a thread title "New lok programmer" suggests that there is something new coming from ESU.
Your question is about a product that Märklin named "Decoder-Programmer" and IMHO it was less confusing to have "Decoder-Programmer" or maybe better "Märklin Decoder-Programmer" in the thread title. You disagree. C’est la vie. But decoder program is an lok programmer. Lok programmer is an decoder program. What ever! |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Originally Posted by: Goofy But decoder program is an lok programmer. There is a German book where people drive the staff mad by going into McD's and ordering "Whoppers". Or by going into B. King and ordering "BigMacs" Better don't call it "Double Whopper" if you refer to a McD's product - and vice versa. Different product names for similar products. Better don't mix company names with trademarks from other companies to avoid confusion. A word to the wise is sufficient.  Thanks for updating the thread title. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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 Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,319 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
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Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Goofy But decoder program is an lok programmer. There is a German book where people drive the staff mad by going into McD's and ordering "Whoppers". Or by going into B. King and ordering "BigMacs" Better don't call it "Double Whopper" if you refer to a McD's product - and vice versa. Different product names for similar products. Better don't mix company names with trademarks from other companies to avoid confusion. A word to the wise is sufficient. Thanks for updating the thread title. Laugh ... I did that very thing. There I was in the the US for 20+ years, and during a lunch break at the university, I drove down to the McDonalds, which naturally has a Burger King a block away I also occasionally visit, and sat in the drive through order line and asked for a "Whopper with cheese". The staff kindly informed me that this was McDonalds. Doh! That said, they are all decoder programmers - as the thing on the locomotive, switch, signal, what-ever-device, is always a decoder and you are configuring/programming the decoder to have the settings you want. What you call the device or software to actually do that task is partly a marketing decision by the manufacturer. |
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Joined: 07/09/2016(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: Michigan, Canton
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Originally Posted by: Minok
That said, they are all decoder programmers - as the thing on the locomotive, switch, signal, what-ever-device, is always a decoder and you are configuring/programming the decoder to have the settings you want.
What you call the device or software to actually do that task is partly a marketing decision by the manufacturer.
For the uninitiated among us, how precisely does one configure a decoder using a PC? How is the decoder connected to the PC? If one has to go from the PC through a controller (e.g. Marklin CS2) to get to the decoder, what is the advantage of the PC, other than a perhaps better interface displayed on the PC? What are the advantages/disadvantages of Marklin's new software?
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Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,809 Location: Crozet, Virginia
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Originally Posted by: bugsmasher
For the uninitiated among us, how precisely does one configure a decoder using a PC? How is the decoder connected to the PC?
The decoder programmer is a USB device which you plug into the USB port on a PC and then the decoder plugs into it. The software to use it is free from Märklin and you just have to purchase the USB device. Originally Posted by: bugsmasher What are the advantages/disadvantages of Marklin's new software? This new system lets you interface with the latest mLD3 and mSD3 decoders in much the same way that you can interface with ESU decoders using LokProgrammer. You can use this interface to update the CV's (which you can also do with a CS2/3) and to update and modify the sounds on the mSD3 decoders. The decoder must be removed from the loco to do this which is not the case with the ESU system. Some find that an issue and others do not. Märklin has provided details here: http://www.maerklin.de/e...etails/article/60971/21/ |
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time. |
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Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,809 Location: Crozet, Virginia
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Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time. |
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Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Minok Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Goofy But decoder program is an lok programmer. There is a German book where people drive the staff mad by going into McD's and ordering "Whoppers". Or by going into B. King and ordering "BigMacs" Better don't call it "Double Whopper" if you refer to a McD's product - and vice versa. Different product names for similar products. Better don't mix company names with trademarks from other companies to avoid confusion. A word to the wise is sufficient. Thanks for updating the thread title. Laugh ... I did that very thing. There I was in the the US for 20+ years, and during a lunch break at the university, I drove down to the McDonalds, which naturally has a Burger King a block away I also occasionally visit, and sat in the drive through order line and asked for a "Whopper with cheese". The staff kindly informed me that this was McDonalds. Doh! That said, they are all decoder programmers - as the thing on the locomotive, switch, signal, what-ever-device, is always a decoder and you are configuring/programming the decoder to have the settings you want. What you call the device or software to actually do that task is partly a marketing decision by the manufacturer. Well I agree with you so far and indeed we get more and more ruled by marketing babble. But my mothertongue is not English. So I ask you as an American: is it really a decoder or do I not have to speak from an encoder? Because in German, I say that I encode the decoder in a loco via this USB stick.
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Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,809 Location: Crozet, Virginia
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Originally Posted by: TEEWolf But my mothertongue is not English. So I ask you as an American: is it really a decoder or do I not have to speak from an encoder? Because in German, I say that I encode the decoder in a loco via this USB stick.
The chip in the loco which controls its behavior is a decoder. It decodes the instructions embedded in the data stream from the command station. The encoder is in the ECoS or CSx or whatever command station you use. The encoder chip embeds the instructions in the data stream distributed on the bus. You program the CVs in the decoder with a decoder programmer suitable for the decoder being used. You can program the decoders with the command stations but you need a decoder programmer to upload sound files to the decoder. I'm sure there are more subtleties that I am not yet aware of because I am still learning the systems used in model railroading. There are other terms as well. When I wrote software for the 1553 bus used in US military aircraft we called the software that did the encoding "packers" and the software which did the decoding "unpackers". So messages were packed and placed on the bus by encoders and then unpacked to control the devices by the decoders in the peripherals. |
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time. |
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An encoder packs the original data into a certain format/shape and sends it. It expects that a receiver/decoder can read it and understand it. Examples: A CS2 (encoder) -> Digital loco (decoder) A file compressed/encoded with zip -> Unpacked (decoded) by a computer program or OS A H.264 video recording device (encoder) -> A video player like VLC or a TV as a decoder An image uploaded to the forum (jpeg encoded) - A web browser that understands how to show jpeg encoding (decoder) A data byte is encoded to the RS-232 serial port -> and decoded into a byte again by a receiving RS-232 port Encrypted (encoded) radio messages using the Enigma -> Decoded by another Enigma at the other end knowing the encoding parameters A handwritten note that is supposed to be secret (author is encoding) -> Reader decodes the message using a known formula This encoding/decoding is everywhere where there has to be somewhat safe communication - may it be by computer networks, radio, horse or Märklin tracks. The sender encodes/encrypts/serializes the message to be sent, and the receiver decodes the message with a know algorithm... So basically you would say that the sender is the encoder and the receiver is the decoder... That is the main understanding for the nomenclature... However it can also sometimes be switched around so the unit at the other end sends data, like mfx feedback and in that case the decoder becomes an encoder and a CS2 decodes the info - but not on the same "channel", which makes it a new separate encoder/decoder combo. Sorry for chattering about it...   |
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb] |
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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,319 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
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Which is at the root of the term CODEC - Coder-Decoder; where the hardware/software attached to a communications channel (such as the Märklin tracks) has the ability to send (encode) data as well as receive (decode) them.
TEEWolf, its likely just differences in how terminology (Umgangssprache?)
When you program (aka configure) a decoder with the "decoder programmer", that programmer takes the settings it wants to put on the decoder, and 'encodes' all of that information into a data delivery that is sent, electrically, to the decoder. The decoder recognizes that transmission, decodes the data and stores it appropriately.
In English we would say you "configure" the decoder.
In sophisticated systems, such as smart phones and complex consumer electronics (Tesla cars to televisions, etc) one can send almost full configurations to the device in the form of 'firmware updates'. Thats how the operating system on your smartphone is updated, for example. Well all of it but the very core boot/loader core. The signalling system used as a way of addressing the payload (firmware) and signing it (to ensure its not tampered with and authorized). With the trains, that full soft of infrastructure is overkill, but the signaling systems don't have the capabilities to address individual decoders all listening to the programming signals at the same time (which is partly because you may be changing the address of the decoder). So to simplify that update, we put only one sender (the USB encoder or other programmer) and one receiver (decoder) on the communication line.. that means you can greatly simplify the communications between the two; makes for cheaper parts as well. |
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