Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Collector  
#1 Posted : 09 September 2016 01:54:24(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Hi All,

So I got back in the game and the first locomotives are on their way to me Razz

I have no space at all to build a (permanent) layout. When I do, it will be K-track.

I cannot get to my old M collection for at least the next 8-9 months.....

Now it seems stupid to me not to be able to test all those lovely locomotives which will be arriving at my door soon.

A man's got to know if they function properly right?


Sooo.... what is the most cost effective way to be able to test all these types of locomotives as well as test functions if I start converting locos from analog to digital?

Because it will be 2-3 years minimum before I can build a layout I figure a CS 3 is a waste of money because it will be completely obsolete before it is used properly.

Starter packs seem to cost either a pile of money and have C-Track turnouts and trains in there which are not on my wish list etc


So I was wondering if trainless starter set 29000 would be the most cost effective way to proceed?

Will a MS 3 allow me to test the smoke function on a 15 year old steam locomotive?



The Marklin site mentions that running digital locos on an analog track you need some sort of safety transformer or otherwise you can blow up the decoder. They mention a 66470.

Is a 6647 also OK? They seem to cost quite a bit less.

Do I need separate piece of connection track to hook up that analog transformer or can I hook it up with whatever piece of track is used to connect the digital stuff (obviously after unplugging the digital stuff)?



Thanks!

Mike

Edited by user 09 September 2016 06:25:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 09 September 2016 08:21:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Mike!
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Will a MS 3 allow me to test the smoke function on a 15 year old steam locomotive?
Set 29000 includes an MS2, not an MS3. We don't know what an MS3 will be able to do ...

MS2 can control 99% of all Märklin digital items. Some 49xx coaches like the famous waiter coach are not compatible.

6647 is OK. It was discontinued and so they list the current 66470 instead.

When switching between analogue and digital, make sure the MS2 trackbox is disconnected from the track.
For club meetings I have several feeder tracks and switch the feeder track when switching between analogue (with 74046) and digital (without 74046).
74046 is the radio interference suppressor for analogue operation - trains also work without it. If you happen to have a 74046 do not use it for digital operation.
A switch - preferably a two-pole switch - can also be used to switch between analogue and digital without replacing the feeder track.

Some older locos need different smoke generators for digital vs. analogue operation.
The track voltage of the MS2 is so low that you can take the risk of using "analogue" smoke generators even when "digital" generators are recommend for digital operation.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline Minok  
#3 Posted : 09 September 2016 21:13:12(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Mike!
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Will a MS 3 allow me to test the smoke function on a 15 year old steam locomotive?
Set 29000 includes an MS2, not an MS3. We don't know what an MS3 will be able to do ...

MS2 can control 99% of all Märklin digital items. Some 49xx coaches like the famous waiter coach are not compatible.


The 29000 set comes with Mobile Station version 60657, which if I understand is like the last "Mobile Station 2" (60653) with just a change to the black case as the only change?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Collector  
#4 Posted : 09 September 2016 23:54:39(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Mike!
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Will a MS 3 allow me to test the smoke function on a 15 year old steam locomotive?
Set 29000 includes an MS2, not an MS3. We don't know what an MS3 will be able to do ...

MS2 can control 99% of all Märklin digital items. Some 49xx coaches like the famous waiter coach are not compatible.

6647 is OK. It was discontinued and so they list the current 66470 instead.

When switching between analogue and digital, make sure the MS2 trackbox is disconnected from the track.
For club meetings I have several feeder tracks and switch the feeder track when switching between analogue (with 74046) and digital (without 74046).
74046 is the radio interference suppressor for analogue operation - trains also work without it. If you happen to have a 74046 do not use it for digital operation.
A switch - preferably a two-pole switch - can also be used to switch between analogue and digital without replacing the feeder track.

Some older locos need different smoke generators for digital vs. analogue operation.
The track voltage of the MS2 is so low that you can take the risk of using "analogue" smoke generators even when "digital" generators are recommend for digital operation.


Thanks Tom! Well I don't have a radio LOL


So the MS3 is not out yet? Ok. I just bought that 29000 set and a few extra tracks and 250 ml of dampfoel which is probably enough to reduce the visibility in here to zero ThumpUp

The dealer did me a deal on the 66470 because he did not have an old used one and bidding on a cheap trafo and paying shipping just for that made no sense.

So I guess that everything I need to test some locos will be on its way shortly.

My desk is big enough for a small layout, the problem is I need to be able to type LOL and where do I put all the junk that makes it difficult to see a lot of the desktop......

Shame I don't have a steam loco with sound yet because it would be hilarious to have that sound in the background when I have people on the phone
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline GlennM  
#5 Posted : 10 September 2016 12:07:44(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
If you just want to test the locos, I would buy a test stand and a cheap MS2 of Flebay, the test stand can also be used with an old style analog controller to test any analog locos you may have.

I have this test stand and it works for me here
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by GlennM
Offline Collector  
#6 Posted : 10 September 2016 13:03:29(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
If you just want to test the locos, I would buy a test stand and a cheap MS2 of Flebay, the test stand can also be used with an old style analog controller to test any analog locos you may have.

I have this test stand and it works for me here


Thanks! I had seen that before but it was a good reminder to put it on my list. For now I think the starter set is slightly more fun.

DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Collector
Offline baggio  
#7 Posted : 10 September 2016 14:08:36(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Why have you decided to use K track? Confused

C track is much better: easier to assemble and disassemble and the turnouts smoother.

Also, you can still use M track in digital; so perhaps you should not be too quick to get rid of it.

Start sets come with C track for a reason: it's the most popular. Marklin used to have K track start sets but they no longer do (that I know of).

Just my usual 2 cents' worth. BigGrin
Offline Collector  
#8 Posted : 10 September 2016 15:48:15(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Why have you decided to use K track? Confused

C track is much better: easier to assemble and disassemble and the turnouts smoother.

Also, you can still use M track in digital; so perhaps you should not be too quick to get rid of it.

Start sets come with C track for a reason: it's the most popular. Marklin used to have K track start sets but they no longer do (that I know of).

Just my usual 2 cents' worth. BigGrin



More realistic looking track as well as the flexi stuff and I suspect that it will cost less using those 900mm pieces as much as possible.

I wasn't planning of getting rid of any of my old stuff but wasn't planning on using the M-track I have either. I always found it quite noisy.

DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Collector
Offline PJMärklin  
#9 Posted : 11 September 2016 06:11:19(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,206
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Why have you decided to use K track? Confused

C track is much better: easier to assemble and disassemble and the turnouts smoother.

Also, you can still use M track in digital; so perhaps you should not be too quick to get rid of it.

Start sets come with C track for a reason: it's the most popular. Marklin used to have K track start sets but they no longer do (that I know of).

Just my usual 2 cents' worth. BigGrin



More realistic looking track as well as the flexi stuff and I suspect that it will cost less using those 900mm pieces as much as possible.

I wasn't planning of getting rid of any of my old stuff but wasn't planning on using the M-track I have either. I always found it quite noisy.




Onya K track !!

Regards,

PJ
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PJMärklin
Offline Minok  
#10 Posted : 12 September 2016 23:53:08(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Why have you decided to use K track? Confused

C track is much better: easier to assemble and disassemble and the turnouts smoother.

Also, you can still use M track in digital; so perhaps you should not be too quick to get rid of it.

Start sets come with C track for a reason: it's the most popular. Marklin used to have K track start sets but they no longer do (that I know of).

Just my usual 2 cents' worth. BigGrin



More realistic looking track as well as the flexi stuff and I suspect that it will cost less using those 900mm pieces as much as possible.

I wasn't planning of getting rid of any of my old stuff but wasn't planning on using the M-track I have either. I always found it quite noisy.




Good plan. If doing controlled turns in a helix, especially with many turns, the simplicity of C-track may be a good application there though.
I'm thinking the layout I'm planning will be mostly C-Track (not having to futz with balasting in the switches while getting uniform look, seems like a good thing) but plan on inserting some flex k-track on some stretches to allow for some sweeping runs.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Minok
Offline Collector  
#11 Posted : 13 September 2016 03:42:28(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Why have you decided to use K track? Confused

C track is much better: easier to assemble and disassemble and the turnouts smoother.

Also, you can still use M track in digital; so perhaps you should not be too quick to get rid of it.

Start sets come with C track for a reason: it's the most popular. Marklin used to have K track start sets but they no longer do (that I know of).

Just my usual 2 cents' worth. BigGrin



More realistic looking track as well as the flexi stuff and I suspect that it will cost less using those 900mm pieces as much as possible.

I wasn't planning of getting rid of any of my old stuff but wasn't planning on using the M-track I have either. I always found it quite noisy.




Good plan. If doing controlled turns in a helix, especially with many turns, the simplicity of C-track may be a good application there though.
I'm thinking the layout I'm planning will be mostly C-Track (not having to futz with balasting in the switches while getting uniform look, seems like a good thing) but plan on inserting some flex k-track on some stretches to allow for some sweeping runs.


Knowing me, I will probably end up making a lot of jigs to get everything parallel and tight. I also suspect that K-tracks will make less noise.
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline PMPeter  
#12 Posted : 13 September 2016 04:13:59(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
K track on cork is a lot quieter than C track. I have both on my permanent layout and regret having started with any C track. The C track turnouts with the undertrack turnout solenoids that frequently fail are a real pain compared to the attachable solenoids for K track.

I think C track is ideal for temporary layouts or any layout that gets changed around a lot. However, for a permanent layout, K track functions and looks a lot better.

Cheers
Peter
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by PMPeter
Offline Minok  
#13 Posted : 14 September 2016 22:07:48(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
K track on cork is a lot quieter than C track. I have both on my permanent layout and regret having started with any C track.


Did you try C-track on cork (or something like felt between the C-track and the underlying board?

Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post

The C track turnouts with the undertrack turnout solenoids that frequently fail are a real pain compared to the attachable solenoids for K track.


I think the C track turnouts can also be controlled by under layout separate solenoids. I'd agree that using the in-ctrack bedding solenoids (and decoders) makes maintenance a difficult thing if you get failure - unless you cut out the base below the turnout so you can access the bits from below... which then begs why install it in the track. In-track is great for quick builds on the floor that need to be taken appart, but for permanent layouts I agree that regardless of track type, having separated relays (and decoders) makes maintenance much more doable.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline PMPeter  
#14 Posted : 15 September 2016 04:36:24(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
I'm not aware of any under board turnout machines for C track. That option exists for K-track with the 7548 part, but for C track?

No I have not added cork below the C track. It already has too high a profile, so to match it with my K track would make it look real strange or cause some significant changes to my roadbed.

Little by little I am replacing all of my C track with K and only using the C wherever possible in yard tracks.

Cheers
Peter
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by PMPeter
Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 15 September 2016 17:11:49(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I made the mistake of using unmodified C-Track turnout motors and then ballasting around the tracks, making it very difficult to service or replace the motors. One day I plan to rip up my tracks and modify the turnout motors by shorting out the end switches, but I will also cut out a section of baseboard underneath each turnout in case of future failures.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Minok  
#16 Posted : 16 September 2016 00:17:35(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I'm not aware of any under board turnout machines for C track. That option exists for K-track with the 7548 part, but for C track?

No I have not added cork below the C track. It already has too high a profile, so to match it with my K track would make it look real strange or cause some significant changes to my roadbed.

Little by little I am replacing all of my C track with K and only using the C wherever possible in yard tracks.

Cheers
Peter


True, Märklin doesn't have a canned solution. There are motors/solutions form other makers or one can use servo based solutions to drive the switches.. that of course adds on the cost and need for different sorts of decoders, etc. Reading comments on the German boards, digitally driven systems have had the motors castrated (modified to eliminate the end-position switches which are problematic in shutting off the current to the motor too soon and eventually burning out relay contact surfaces inside the motor assembly) and some have run for 15 years fine, while others die after 2 years. So you never really know how long till a motor may crap out or what its problem is. One report of a motor failure led to a finding of a short circuit to ground inside the assembly; apply electrical tape and its back in service.

Seems as though cutting in the maintenance access hole from below in the benchwork floor is the best option if one wants to stick with the simplicity of c-track turnout motors from Märklin.

Blending different track usages can be a challenge, no doubt. Luckily I'm not to the point of putting track down yet, so I can still design and build in the necessary bedding. If I end up with c-track and k-track flex, I'll put enough cork (or whatever bedding) below the K to get it to the right level relative to the sound-isolated c-track level. Its position above the benchwork isn't an issue as the level of the 'scenery ground' can always be raised with inexpensive materials (foam etc). For those adding to existing installations, such choices are likely more limited or difficulty to implement.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.565 seconds.