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Offline Collector  
#1 Posted : 05 September 2016 04:06:06(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Hi All,

Was looking for a M 37014 but could not find one. I did find there is an identical DC version from Trix (22836)

Would it be feasible to convert that AC or is that going to be a major headache and expensive?


What would I need to change? Axles and the pickup? Would that even work?


Regards,

Mike
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 05 September 2016 08:22:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Mike,

When I convert Trix locos from two-rail to three-rail, I only install the slider and re-solder one wire inside the loco.

The 22836 should have wheel sliders on all wheels, so there should not be contact problems. I do not have problems with Trix wheelsets on Märklin C track.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Collector  
#3 Posted : 05 September 2016 12:46:53(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Mike,

When I convert Trix locos from two-rail to three-rail, I only install the slider and re-solder one wire inside the loco.

The 22836 should have wheel sliders on all wheels, so there should not be contact problems. I do not have problems with Trix wheelsets on Märklin C track.



Thank You!

In other words this should be easy?

Which wire needs to be re-soldered?
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline ktsolias  
#4 Posted : 05 September 2016 14:23:03(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
The wires that are coming from the wheel contacts must be connected together and soldered to the Brown wire of the decoder (rails)

The new wire from the pick-up show must be connected to the red wire of the decoder (center rail)

In 2rail and NEM color system the Red wire is from the Right track and the Black is from the Left. The Black is the Brown in Marklin system.

If you post a photo we can give you more advise

Costas
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H0
Offline Collector  
#5 Posted : 05 September 2016 15:54:00(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
The wires that are coming from the wheel contacts must be connected together and soldered to the Brown wire of the decoder (rails)

The new wire from the pick-up show must be connected to the red wire of the decoder (center rail)

In 2rail and NEM color system the Red wire is from the Right track and the Black is from the Left. The Black is the Brown in Marklin system.

If you post a photo we can give you more advise

Costas


Thanks Costas,

I haven't bought one yet I am doing research first.

With wagons you need to exchange DC wheels for AC weels why is this not needed on a locomotive?

The axles can't be of one piece because it would create a short yet on the Marklin version you would expect them to be.... ?

Kind Regards,

Mike
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 05 September 2016 16:00:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
With wagons you need to exchange DC wheels for AC wheels why is this not needed on a locomotive?
You get electric contact through the wires.
With wagons you don't always have to replace the wheel sets - at least if you don't use contact tracks. The wire connection inside the loco even makes it compatible with contact tracks.

Some Märklin locos use the same wheel sets with plastic axles as their Trix counterparts - same sparepart number, same wheel spacing.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline biedmatt  
#7 Posted : 05 September 2016 17:49:56(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
With wagons you need to exchange DC wheels for AC weels why is this not needed on a locomotive?

The axles can't be of one piece because it would create a short yet on the Marklin version you would expect them to be.... ?

Kind Regards,

Mike


With DC loks (and I mean two rail in this context), the axles and the wheels on the left side are uninsulated from each other. So the left rail's power is also in the chassis of the lok. The power passes from wheel to axle to chassis. The brown or black wire from the decoder (depending on who's standard the lok is built) is connected to chassis ground.

The right wheels are insulated from the axle. Wipers which ride the back side of the right side wheels are used to conduct the power from the right rail through the wheels to the wiper and then to the decoder. These wipers are insulated from chassis ground otherwise you would have a short. This is the Red decoder wire.

You need to unsolder the red wire which leads from the wiper to the decoder. Remove it at the decoder, not the wiper. It will likely be too short to reach the slider you will be adding. You do not have to connect the wire from the wiper to ground, but contact tracks will not work and you can possible have stalls when the lok looses connection to ground.

Lastly, you need to connect the wire which will come from your new slider to the spot where you desoldered and removed the wiper contact (red) wire from the decoder.

It is much easier going from two rail to three rail. Going from three rail to two rail requires insulated wheelsets.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline Collector  
#8 Posted : 05 September 2016 17:54:17(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
With wagons you need to exchange DC wheels for AC wheels why is this not needed on a locomotive?
You get electric contact through the wires.
With wagons you don't always have to replace the wheel sets - at least if you don't use contact tracks. The wire connection inside the loco even makes it compatible with contact tracks.

Some Märklin locos use the same wheel sets with plastic axles as their Trix counterparts - same sparepart number, same wheel spacing.


And those plastic Axles don't wear out quickly and last?


BTW can it be true this locomotive does not have a decoder as standard? I am kind of shocked it seems they still sell analog models?

Catalog indicates that there is only a 21 pin header to plug a decoder into but not an actual decoder?


DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 05 September 2016 18:32:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
I am kind of shocked it seems they still sell analog models?
I think most people are shocked how few analogue two-rail locos they still offer. Not many left in the 2016 new items brochure.

Yes, 22836 is analogue, with a "Märklin decoder socket" and prepared for a Märklin decoder.
ESU decoders may or may not work ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Collector  
#10 Posted : 05 September 2016 20:28:25(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
I am kind of shocked it seems they still sell analog models?
I think most people are shocked how few analogue two-rail locos they still offer. Not many left in the 2016 new items brochure.

Yes, 22836 is analogue, with a "Märklin decoder socket" and prepared for a Märklin decoder.
ESU decoders may or may not work ...


Hmmm and this will be found out when I buy one and try it or is there a way to figure that out before spending money on the loco and the decoder?
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 05 September 2016 20:52:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Hmmm and this will be found out when I buy one and try it or is there a way to figure that out before spending money on the loco and the decoder?
You can wait until the loco arrives and use trial and error.
Or ask on the forum for feedback from other owners. Maybe owners of 37014 can provide useful information about the factory-installed decoder (does it have amplified AUX3/4) and the function mapping (are AUX3/4 used for anything?).

The instructions that come with the Trix locos are of little use with respect to selecting or configuring a decoder.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Collector  
#12 Posted : 07 September 2016 20:50:43(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
Hmmm and this will be found out when I buy one and try it or is there a way to figure that out before spending money on the loco and the decoder?
You can wait until the loco arrives and use trial and error.
Or ask on the forum for feedback from other owners. Maybe owners of 37014 can provide useful information about the factory-installed decoder (does it have amplified AUX3/4) and the function mapping (are AUX3/4 used for anything?).

The instructions that come with the Trix locos are of little use with respect to selecting or configuring a decoder.




Problem solved: I found a dealer who will sell me a 39112 with a Trix 22836 shell and the price is such that I will not bother attempting this myself!!
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
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