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Offline vnangli  
#1 Posted : 25 April 2016 04:04:47(UTC)
vnangli

United States   
Joined: 01/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 156
Location: Indiana, Warsaw
I recieved this loco 37202. As I was going through its manual, I found there is a page with exploded views showing the assembly of rubber tires.
I usually run each of my locos for less than few minutes everytime, just to check them out. Without using the rubber tires am I doing anything wrong or am reducing their life? Basically I want to understand the need and relevance of these tires.

Thanks
VJ
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#2 Posted : 25 April 2016 04:50:17(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,044
The function of the tyres is to increase traction power. Some locomotives might manage without them others would just have the wheels turning without advancing or slipping a lot. This is more noticeable when they pull a lot of wagons. I doubt you cause any damage but they put them there for the loco to perform better.
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 25 April 2016 08:16:37(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: vnangli Go to Quoted Post
Basically I want to understand the need and relevance of these tires.
Those traction tyres increase the tractive effort of the loco, as was already written.

Wheels meant for traction tyres have a groove. Run the loco without traction tyres and there will be problems.

Some people do not allow traction tyres on their layouts. Those buy wheel sets without grooves and the locos run without problems, but they haul less than they would with traction tyres.
The dirt residue on the outer rails comes mostly from traction tyres. Some people avoid traction tyres to keep the rails clean.

Traction tyres usually last for years. But sometimes they fall off after minutes - they will fall off if wheels are slipping, e.g. loco pushing against bumper or loco - or train too heavy when going uphill. Sometimes the traction tyres get oiled at the factory and should be replaced before first use of the loco.
Regards
Tom
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Offline nitramretep  
#4 Posted : 25 April 2016 13:32:47(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
You mean those evil rubber tires are the reason I constantly clean my track? Humbug!
Offline skeeterbuck  
#5 Posted : 25 April 2016 13:53:38(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
The traction tires are so the engines will have some pulling power. For an HO gauge loco to have some pulling power without traction tires it would have to weigh several pounds. I remember the older American made Ho loco from the 50's having solid lead cast boilers. Needless to say they had excellent pulling power.
I have the older Prmex Orient Express cars (tinplate) and have added lights to them with one slider pickup per car. I have a Marklin BR18 engine pulling the. Even with the traction tires it can only pull 3 of them without slipping on basically level track. Sad If I add a 4th it will start to slip on startup, with five the wheels will just slip in place. Without the traction tires, I doubt if it could pull one. Laugh Not to mention up any sort of grade.

Chuck
Offline vnangli  
#6 Posted : 25 April 2016 14:51:36(UTC)
vnangli

United States   
Joined: 01/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 156
Location: Indiana, Warsaw
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: vnangli Go to Quoted Post
Basically I want to understand the need and relevance of these tires.
Those traction tyres increase the tractive effort of the loco, as was already written.

Wheels meant for traction tyres have a groove. Run the loco without traction tyres and there will be problems.

Some people do not allow traction tyres on their layouts. Those buy wheel sets without grooves and the locos run without problems, but they haul less than they would with traction tyres.
The dirt residue on the outer rails comes mostly from traction tyres. Some people avoid traction tyres to keep the rails clean.

Traction tyres usually last for years. But sometimes they fall off after minutes - they will fall off if wheels are slipping, e.g. loco pushing against bumper or loco - or train too heavy when going uphill. Sometimes the traction tyres get oiled at the factory and should be replaced before first use of the loco.


Now, how do I find out if my loco needs traction tyres. You mentioned there will be grooves on the wheels on the loco, apart from this check is there another way also to find if the loco needs traction tyres?

VJ
Offline skeeterbuck  
#7 Posted : 25 April 2016 15:03:28(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: vnangli Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: vnangli Go to Quoted Post
Basically I want to understand the need and relevance of these tires.
Those traction tyres increase the tractive effort of the loco, as was already written.

Wheels meant for traction tyres have a groove. Run the loco without traction tyres and there will be problems.

Some people do not allow traction tyres on their layouts. Those buy wheel sets without grooves and the locos run without problems, but they haul less than they would with traction tyres.
The dirt residue on the outer rails comes mostly from traction tyres. Some people avoid traction tyres to keep the rails clean.

Traction tyres usually last for years. But sometimes they fall off after minutes - they will fall off if wheels are slipping, e.g. loco pushing against bumper or loco - or train too heavy when going uphill. Sometimes the traction tyres get oiled at the factory and should be replaced before first use of the loco.


Now, how do I find out if my loco needs traction tyres. You mentioned there will be grooves on the wheels on the loco, apart from this check is there another way also to find if the loco needs traction tyres?

VJ


Are you asking if you need to have them on the wheels for the engine to run properly? - YES
or
Are you asking how to tell if the ones on your engine need replacing? If they're old & hard or otherwise deteriorating - YES, Otherwise - NO

Hope this helps,
Chuck
Offline vnangli  
#8 Posted : 25 April 2016 15:31:35(UTC)
vnangli

United States   
Joined: 01/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 156
Location: Indiana, Warsaw
I am asking, how do I find if my loco "NEEDS" to have a traction tire before running? I looked through the manual for 37202 and it didn't mention that traction tire needs to be installed before running.
So, I was running this loco without any traction tires till I saw the section in the manual where it had instructions for installing tires. So, I got this question "Does this loco need traction tires prior to running?".
You know some of the electronic products we use have these instructions like, "these accessories ARE required for operation, but are not included in your purchase".

So, I wanted to understand from looking at the symbols printed on the boxes of the loco which may instruct to install tires before operation. Also, was trying to learn how to look at the wheels and look for features like grooves for tires. I dont have an idea of how deep a groove should I be looking for on the wheels and decide to install the tires. For me, the wheels on all the locos I have look the same. I mean the wheel section which runs on the track, none of them seem to have a groove.

Thanks
VJ
Offline skeeterbuck  
#9 Posted : 25 April 2016 15:58:35(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: vnangli Go to Quoted Post
I am asking, how do I find if my loco "NEEDS" to have a traction tire before running? I looked through the manual for 37202 and it didn't mention that traction tire needs to be installed before running.
So, I was running this loco without any traction tires till I saw the section in the manual where it had instructions for installing tires. So, I got this question "Does this loco need traction tires prior to running?".
You know some of the electronic products we use have these instructions like, "these accessories ARE required for operation, but are not included in your purchase".

So, I wanted to understand from looking at the symbols printed on the boxes of the loco which may instruct to install tires before operation. Also, was trying to learn how to look at the wheels and look for features like grooves for tires. I dont have an idea of how deep a groove should I be looking for on the wheels and decide to install the tires. For me, the wheels on all the locos I have look the same. I mean the wheel section which runs on the track, none of them seem to have a groove.

Thanks
VJ


They should already be installed on the wheel from the factory. You only have to replace they when they wear out (many, many hours of use) or become hard over time (many years).
When you look at the part of the wheel that actually rides on the rail you should see a black rubber area, that's the tire. The non-tire wheels should be a blackened metal color (Dark metallic grey). when they are clean.
Offline PMPeter  
#10 Posted : 25 April 2016 15:59:36(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,284
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: vnangli Go to Quoted Post
I am asking, how do I find if my loco "NEEDS" to have a traction tire before running? I looked through the manual for 37202 and it didn't mention that traction tire needs to be installed before running.
So, I was running this loco without any traction tires till I saw the section in the manual where it had instructions for installing tires. So, I got this question "Does this loco need traction tires prior to running?".
You know some of the electronic products we use have these instructions like, "these accessories ARE required for operation, but are not included in your purchase".

So, I wanted to understand from looking at the symbols printed on the boxes of the loco which may instruct to install tires before operation. Also, was trying to learn how to look at the wheels and look for features like grooves for tires. I dont have an idea of how deep a groove should I be looking for on the wheels and decide to install the tires. For me, the wheels on all the locos I have look the same. I mean the wheel section which runs on the track, none of them seem to have a groove.

Thanks
VJ


Did you buy the locomotive new? If yes the traction tires are already there. Do you have the diagram for the loc that shows all the parts in an exploded view? If yes then it will show you which wheels require the tires. If you don't see any grooved wheels, chances are the tires are there but you are just not recognizing them. Attach a photo of the bottom of your loco and we can probably tell you if they are there or not.

The wheels with the groove look more like a pulley than a wheel.

Peter
Offline vnangli  
#11 Posted : 25 April 2016 16:02:57(UTC)
vnangli

United States   
Joined: 01/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 156
Location: Indiana, Warsaw
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vnangli Go to Quoted Post
I am asking, how do I find if my loco "NEEDS" to have a traction tire before running? I looked through the manual for 37202 and it didn't mention that traction tire needs to be installed before running.
So, I was running this loco without any traction tires till I saw the section in the manual where it had instructions for installing tires. So, I got this question "Does this loco need traction tires prior to running?".
You know some of the electronic products we use have these instructions like, "these accessories ARE required for operation, but are not included in your purchase".

So, I wanted to understand from looking at the symbols printed on the boxes of the loco which may instruct to install tires before operation. Also, was trying to learn how to look at the wheels and look for features like grooves for tires. I dont have an idea of how deep a groove should I be looking for on the wheels and decide to install the tires. For me, the wheels on all the locos I have look the same. I mean the wheel section which runs on the track, none of them seem to have a groove.

Thanks
VJ


Did you buy the locomotive new? If yes the traction tires are already there. Do you have the diagram for the loc that shows all the parts in an exploded view? If yes then it will show you which wheels require the tires. If you don't see any grooved wheels, chances are the tires are there but you are just not recognizing them. Attach a photo of the bottom of your loco and we can probably tell you if they are there or not.

The wheels with the groove look more like a pulley than a wheel.

Peter


The pulley example you have mentioned gives me an idea now...Yes, I bought this brand new.

I will upload some pictures later today...Thanks again.
VJ

Offline PMPeter  
#12 Posted : 25 April 2016 16:15:59(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,284
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: vnangli Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vnangli Go to Quoted Post
I am asking, how do I find if my loco "NEEDS" to have a traction tire before running? I looked through the manual for 37202 and it didn't mention that traction tire needs to be installed before running.
So, I was running this loco without any traction tires till I saw the section in the manual where it had instructions for installing tires. So, I got this question "Does this loco need traction tires prior to running?".
You know some of the electronic products we use have these instructions like, "these accessories ARE required for operation, but are not included in your purchase".

So, I wanted to understand from looking at the symbols printed on the boxes of the loco which may instruct to install tires before operation. Also, was trying to learn how to look at the wheels and look for features like grooves for tires. I dont have an idea of how deep a groove should I be looking for on the wheels and decide to install the tires. For me, the wheels on all the locos I have look the same. I mean the wheel section which runs on the track, none of them seem to have a groove.

Thanks
VJ


Did you buy the locomotive new? If yes the traction tires are already there. Do you have the diagram for the loc that shows all the parts in an exploded view? If yes then it will show you which wheels require the tires. If you don't see any grooved wheels, chances are the tires are there but you are just not recognizing them. Attach a photo of the bottom of your loco and we can probably tell you if they are there or not.

The wheels with the groove look more like a pulley than a wheel.

Peter


The pulley example you have mentioned gives me an idea now...Yes, I bought this brand new.

I will upload some pictures later today...Thanks again.
VJ



If it is new, the tires are already installed. The reason there are instructions on how to install them is because they wear down and have to be replaced occasionally. It is not something you need to do with a new locomotive before you run it. If a tire falls off you will know from the sound of the loco as it crosses every rail joint. It gives a "klung" sound.
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Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 25 April 2016 16:38:10(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,779
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
its the same do we need soles on our shoes, we could do without them but when climbing you need a good sole to get a grip and the same applies to rubber tyres, in the early days the locos were so heavy they didn't need rubber tyres, the weight itself was enough to haul a long train, these days they use plastic and they have reduced the overall weight in locos.
the locos are designed in such a way the wheels with rubber tyres have a small groove whereas the tyre fits into without it the loco would not run smoothly.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline analogmike  
#14 Posted : 26 April 2016 02:51:49(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 760
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
I have an old br 23 that for some reason was run many years with no tires. I remember it was only used to pull three silver coaches and did so very well. When later on in life I finally put the correct tires on it they kept coming off. A closer look revealed that the tiny lip that keeps the tire on was well rounded off. Also the groove had the plating worn off to reveal a copper color. Do not run a lok without proper tires if so equipped.

Traction tires are not the only thing which makes rails dirty. Over the years I have found that over oiling wheel axles greatly contributes to dirty rails. Whenever possible I remove the wheel sets and oil the bearing hole using a sewing needle and great care. Since I got into this habit my rails stay clean much longer. Mikey.
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
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Offline Minok  
#15 Posted : 28 April 2016 22:08:53(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,313
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Do you need the traction tire (rubber) on your locomotive?

1) If the metal wheel on the locomotive (some small part of the total loco wheels) is designed for traction tires (groove as others have said) then you should ensure the traction tire (or tyre ) is installed on those wheels.

2) If you are pulling heavy/long trains and/or climbing steep grades you will likely need or benefit from traction tires.

3) If you don't need the traction provided by the traction tires, and your train is outfitted with wheels intended to have traction tires on them, you can replace those metal wheels with the type that don't use a traction tire and run only steel on steel.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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