Rail Zeppelin with handmade airscrew and new airscrew motor

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Rail Zeppelin with handmade airscrew and new airscrew motor

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Moritz-BR365		#1 Posted : 14 January 2016 11:48:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Hello, here I Show You some Little modifications on my rail Zeppelin, I bought used for a few euros. First, I had to carve a ne airscrew, because my model didn't have one. I used a piece of har Wood to carve the airscrew: Next, I wanted to replace the airscrew Motor, because it is very loud and it is consuming much current (~200-250mA current)! I use a 6V DC Motor, I found in stock: The gear was a Problem, so I bought it by KK Produkcja in Poland. A self made bracket was easy to cut from Aluminium plate and fixed with the original screw from the original motor. The Motor is fixed with mountinh adhesive tape. The Aluminium bracket can be moved to find the right Position between the two gears: For the first test, I used a 100Ohm resistor. With this, the current consumption is 40% less (~100mA). Next, I will reduce the speed for the airscrew and with a specific circuit, the Speed will increase with the driving speed. But I will choose a lower maximum Speed to reduce noise and power consumption. Here is a first comparison Video with the old Motor and the new one:
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river6109		#2 Posted : 14 January 2016 13:37:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,879 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Moritz you've done a marvelous job, could you reduce the noise more by adding a plastic sleeve into the propellers rod ? it sounds like the whole motor's noise is transferred through the metal parts on the other hand I don't know what noise it made in the first place John
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Moritz-BR365		#3 Posted : 14 January 2016 13:51:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Thanks, John! 1st, the Motor is running on a very high speed, I have to reduce the maximum speed. 2nd, a part of the noise occurs by the two metal gears. I may have tried to use a plastic gear. But I don't like plastic and plastic with metal combined is most times not a good decision. There is a proposal to use a belt drive. I like this idea, therefore, I will think about how to realize this. I would have to remove the big gear and put pulleys onto both axles. It may be the most noise efficient solution. Therfore, first, I will work on reducing the Speed and make it dynamically. Then, I will look Forward, depending on the noise. Regards, Moritz
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Mark5		#4 Posted : 14 January 2016 21:57:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,422 Location: Montreal, Canada		Thank you Moritz, Really interesting what you've done. But you are teasing us by not showing an image of the whole model. Is this one of the older metal framed versions of the rail Zepplin? It would be great to see it powering up and moving along the rails. Thanks again, Mark Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Hello, here I Show You some Little modifications on my rail Zeppelin, I bought used for a few euros. First, I had to carve a new airscrew, because my model didn't have one. I used a piece of har Wood to carve the airscrew: [...IMG] Next, I wanted to replace the airscrew Motor, because it is very loud and it is consuming much current (~200-250mA current)! I use a 6V DC Motor, I found in stock: [.....IMG] The gear was a Problem, so I bought it by KK Produkcja in Poland. A self made bracket was easy to cut from Aluminium plate and fixed with the original screw from the original motor. The Motor is fixed with mountinh adhesive tape. The Aluminium bracket can be moved to find the right Position between the two gears: [.....IMG] For the first test, I used a 100Ohm resistor. With this, the current consumption is 40% less (~100mA). [....IMG] Next, I will reduce the speed for the airscrew and with a specific circuit, the Speed will increase with the driving speed. But I will choose a lower maximum Speed to reduce noise and power consumption. Here is a first comparison Video with the old Motor and the new one: [video]
		DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70. In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?


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Moritz-BR365		#5 Posted : 14 January 2016 23:09:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Hello Mark, this one is it, metal frame and plastik case:
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Mark5		#6 Posted : 15 January 2016 04:56:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,422 Location: Montreal, Canada		Thanks Moritz, Looks great. I was really amazed how fast this model is. Was the only one I had fly off the rails this past year! ...fortunately its very sturdy and no damage was done due the soft carpeted landing. Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Hello Mark, this one is it, metal frame and plastik case:
		DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70. In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?

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Moritz-BR365		#7 Posted : 15 January 2016 07:44:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Hello Mark, yes, the Zeppelin runs amazingly fast. In our last MRR cracker barrel we tested with the Marlin measure car. But the Zeppelin was faster then the fastest loco with 230km/h. I guess, the Zeppelin is around 270km/h. Edited by user 15 January 2016 22:18:51(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified
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Mark5		#8 Posted : 15 January 2016 19:18:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,422 Location: Montreal, Canada		Well done Moritz, you set a new record for the Rail Zeppelin by exceeding its previous best by 40km/h! . "On 10 May 1931, the Schienenzeppelin exceeded a speed of 200 km/h (120 mph) for the first time. Afterwards, it was exhibited to the general public throughout Germany. On 21 June 1931, it set a new world railway speed record of 230.2 km/h (143.0 mph) on the Berlin–Hamburg line between Karstädt and Dergenthin, which was not surpassed by any other rail vehicle until 1954. The railcar still holds the land speed record for a petrol powered rail vehicle. This high speed was attributable, amongst other things, to its low weight, which was only 20.3 tonnes (20.0 long tons; 22.4 short tons)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_Class_VT_10.5 Some great little summaries in Wikipedia about the history of such beauties. - Mark
		DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70. In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?

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river6109		#9 Posted : 16 January 2016 16:19:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,879 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Thanks, John! 1st, the Motor is running on a very high speed, I have to reduce the maximum speed. 2nd, a part of the noise occurs by the two metal gears. I may have tried to use a plastic gear. But I don't like plastic and plastic with metal combined is most times not a good decision. There is a proposal to use a belt drive. I like this idea, therefore, I will think about how to realize this. I would have to remove the big gear and put pulleys onto both axles. It may be the most noise efficient solution. Therfore, first, I will work on reducing the Speed and make it dynamically. Then, I will look Forward, depending on the noise. Regards, Moritz Moritz, I came across a Roco loco with belt drive: ÖBB Rh 1089 and was very surprised.
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MalinAC		#10 Posted : 16 January 2016 17:18:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC) Posts: 839 Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH		I used to have a Roco dc crocodile and it had belt drive. It ran very good and quiet. I got it used and very cheap from Rails of Sheffield because the drive belt had . got brittle and snapped. Easy to replace.Eddie

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Moritz-BR365		#11 Posted : 17 January 2016 00:52:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		More coming soon:
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Moritz-BR365		#12 Posted : 17 January 2016 13:30:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Now, this is how it wors with the spezial circuit board:
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ixldoc		#13 Posted : 18 January 2016 00:36:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/11/2015(UTC) Posts: 221 Location: Brisbane,Australia		Hi Moritz, Great fun! I did a similar ( but more drastic) makeover on an old scratched Zeppelin I bought as a project. I got a bit carried away and altered it drastically. I will post it as a new (related) topic). Maybe we can start a new topic "Models I have altered for better or worse! Cheers, Howard.

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Moritz-BR365		#14 Posted : 19 February 2016 21:20:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Now with belt drive:
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ixldoc		#15 Posted : 19 February 2016 21:46:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/11/2015(UTC) Posts: 221 Location: Brisbane,Australia		Well done Moritz! Completes the project nicely. Regards, Howard.

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Webmaster		#16 Posted : 19 February 2016 22:27:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165		Well done indeed! What did you make the wooden propeller of, an ice cream stick or such? I was just wondering if you could use some 2- or 4-blade plastic 1:72 plane kit propeller for this, since I have the same situation with a missing Zeppelin propeller for my 3477... Just thinking about the options...
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Moritz-BR365		#17 Posted : 19 February 2016 23:15:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Hello Juhan, Originally Posted by: Webmaster What did you make the wooden propeller of, an ice cream stick or such? I was just wondering if you could use some 2- or 4-blade plastic 1:72 plane kit propeller for this, since I have the same situation with a missing Zeppelin propeller for my 3477... Just thinking about the options... I used a piece of parquet slat. I was thinking about a micro quadrocopter drohne propeller, but it is hard to get them and I realized, that the axle of the quadrocopters is very very thin. Therefore, I will stay with this solution. The 2-blade looks more nice then the 4-blade version. And remark: the record speed of 230km/h was realized with the 2-blade propeller! Airblade in silver colour:
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xxup		#18 Posted : 20 February 2016 00:13:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,612 Location: Australia		What about the propeller from the 37777? Would this work?
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NZMarklinist		#19 Posted : 20 February 2016 05:08:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		Originally Posted by: xxup What about the propeller from the 37777? Would this work? Hi Adrian, In the upgrade of my 3077 to a 37777 I wanted to order one of those, they were real wood, but they were never showing as available, even just when the 37777 was released, so I'm stuck with the original orange plastic four blader which is what the Zeppelin was run mostly with, The two bladed version couldn't produce enough thrust as the blades were too short hence it proved not ideal. Sorry to Moritz for this revelation. Below is a video of the prototype running a test with the two bladed prop. Your conversion is a revelation and the belt drive take away the objectionable noisy gear drive I got all the other things like the interior, the LED light board, the better prop motor, the 21 pin decoder board with function amplifier, etc A story on my upgrade is another to do thing ! This year maybe
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider

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Moritz-BR365		#20 Posted : 20 February 2016 11:06:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist ... The two bladed version couldn't produce enough thrust as the blades were too short hence it proved not ideal. Sorry to Moritz for this revelation. Below is a video of the prototype running a test with the two bladed prop. Hello, in this video You can see, that the 2-bladed propeller was used for the world record from Hamburg to Berlin: World record with 2-blade from Hamburg to Berlin
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Moritz-BR365		#21 Posted : 21 February 2016 14:04:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Now the final version of the air screw. Now. I will continue with interiour, cabin light and maybe change the decoder to mSD sound decoder.
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kiwiAlan		#22 Posted : 21 February 2016 16:48:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,513 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 Now the final version of the air screw. That looks real nice now it has been honed to shape. Nice job there.

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Moritz-BR365		#23 Posted : 21 February 2016 22:01:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683
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Moritz-BR365		#24 Posted : 26 March 2016 18:58:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		During our rail road model meeting:
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Moritz-BR365		#25 Posted : 23 August 2016 08:37:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		A good friend borrowed me his 2nd CS2. So, I was able to load the Schienenzeppelin sound onto my mSD sound decoder. I configured the AUX port for the air screw drive as "Zoom". This cause, that the air screw starts smoothly and speeds up during the diesel start sequenz of the sound project. And finally, when You switch of the diesel sound, the air screw stops smoothly, too. It is nearly synchron with the diesel sound. May be, I can adjust a bit better, but it isn't easy, because the zoom function can not be configered differenty for start and stop phase. But I think, it is already quite good:
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ixldoc		#26 Posted : 24 August 2016 04:30:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/11/2015(UTC) Posts: 221 Location: Brisbane,Australia		What a great idea, and the sound is almost perfectly synched to the prop. First class!

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Moritz-BR365		#27 Posted : 24 August 2016 10:56:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Originally Posted by: ixldoc What a great idea, and the sound is almost perfectly synched to the prop. First class! Thanks, I'm already thinking about using a second AUX port, to spend more power for the start phase to be full synchronously.
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Moritz-BR365		#28 Posted : 24 August 2016 23:00:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 683		Originally Posted by: Moritz-BR365 I'm already thinking about using a second AUX port, to spend more power for the start phase to be full synchronously. Here we go. I used AUX3 additionally to AUX1 to have more parameters to adjust the motor speed during start and stop phase. This is now the new circuit plan: AUX1 is again configured with the Zoom function of the mSD sound decoder, to speed up the airscrew speed smoothly, AUX3 is configured with a dimmed constant voltage, to start the air screw motor together with the motor sound. And this is, how it looks like now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txuRwpsJ5AE Greetings, Moritz
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ixldoc		#29 Posted : 24 August 2016 23:52:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/11/2015(UTC) Posts: 221 Location: Brisbane,Australia		Hi Moritz, Perfect!! Well done! Nicely finishes your project. I will have to get a sound decoder and play around with your circuit. Thanks for the post. I loved it. Regards, Howard.

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