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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 04 August 2015 14:30:54(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,577
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Fleischmann has gone into insolvency
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline jorwes  
#2 Posted : 04 August 2015 15:04:47(UTC)
jorwes

Sweden   
Joined: 02/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: STOCKHOLMS LAN, STOCKHOLM
Where did you see this info?
Offline Unholz  
#3 Posted : 04 August 2015 15:45:50(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,107
Location: Switzerland
The German forums (Stummi, Drehscheibe Online) are full of messages on this topic. As far as I understand the situation, relevancy for customers might not be as important as it can seem at first glance, because only the remains of the "original" company at Heilsbronn are affected.
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Offline steventrain  
#4 Posted : 04 August 2015 16:46:32(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,745
See News >LINK< German text.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline petestra  
#5 Posted : 04 August 2015 16:55:10(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,654
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Hi guys. I just read the article and then I noticed the date on the top. It's an article from 5 1/2 years ago! PeterBlink


PS - OLD NEWS!
Offline NS1200  
#6 Posted : 04 August 2015 16:57:37(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,439
See the following from the German press today.
Pleite means exit.
Understand Fleischmann have 33 people left,production done by Roco.

http://www.nordbayern.de...ann-ist-pleite-1.4565354
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline petestra  
#7 Posted : 04 August 2015 17:06:49(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,654
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
See the following from the German press today.
Pleite means exit.
Understand Fleischmann have 33 people left,production done by Roco.

http://www.nordbayern.de...ann-ist-pleite-1.4565354



Thanks,Paul. This one is current. Cheers,Peter.

This current article speaks about the 600 pensioners whose pensions have been protected by an insurance company. Good for them!
Offline NS1200  
#8 Posted : 04 August 2015 17:30:58(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,439
Peter,

Pension money is a hot issue in Europe right now,with sometimes heated debates as a result.
Companies say they cannot survive when having to pay pension money to workers every month.
Workers cannot survive without pension money!
Pension deposites are usually invested in worldwide stockmarkets,including the USA.
Also in Holland,insurance companies and banks take care of that.

Story goes that the Dutch have a total of 1,300 billion Euro in pensionfunds for their retirement.
Give my share to me i would say,i know a couple of nice loco's to buy!

Paul.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline petestra  
#9 Posted : 04 August 2015 18:50:21(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,654
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Hi Paul. Yes, here in USA too. It started a while ago. First the Airline Industry. Quite a few went bankrupt. Pan Am and Eastern Airlines retired employees

only get a small fraction of what they would have gotten. Many other companies and industries too. It's very sad that they worked so hard for so many years too.

Peter
Offline kimballthurlow  
#10 Posted : 04 August 2015 23:00:08(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,846
Location: Brisbane, Australia
In Australia, we have a superannuation (pension) industry that is set up by law.
All employers must contribute at least quarterly into this fund, around 10% of their wages bill, on behalf of their employees.

This industry is separate from both government and employers, so basically each wage earner has a part of this fund, which will be returned to him/her at retirement.

The rules governing this huge fund keep changing, and it is quite possible, for the money to be purloined by government at any time.
For example, in a time of national crisis (Greece?), the government could pass a law to extract funds for their purposes.
Hopefully, that will never happen.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#11 Posted : 04 August 2015 23:06:58(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,840
Location: NY, NY
I was wondering if this mattered as Roco has taken them on. As mentioned prior, seems like its not a concern to customers. (thank goodness)
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
Offline mike c  
#12 Posted : 05 August 2015 06:55:19(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,371
Location: Montreal, QC
This only refers to the 33 staff that were retained at this one facility and to the pension regime of those and other employees already terminated.
The functions previously performed by these people will now be assumed by personnel at Modellbahn GmbH directly.
Basically, Fleischmann now exists only in name as the Brand for Roco N scale and for select HO products.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#13 Posted : 05 August 2015 09:47:50(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Basically, Fleischmann now exists only in name as the Brand for Roco N scale and for select HO products.

I actually thought it already did. I never considered Fleischmann other than a sticker on a box since Roco took over. Just like Trix is a sticker on a Märklin-box.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: http://baneforum.dk/
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 05 August 2015 10:05:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,505
Location: DE-NW
Roco and Fleischmann are siblings, owned by the same company.

Company pensions are covered by PSVaG. These are extra pensions, paid on top of the legally required pensions.

It seems that Fleischmann negotiated in vain with PSVaG to make them pay the pensions. The insolvency will now probably make them pay the pensions.

If PSVaG pays those pensions then Fleischmann will soon be out of insolvency again.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Mark_1602  
#15 Posted : 05 August 2015 16:36:24(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 631
Location: Luxembourg
Hi everyone,

When I read the news about the Fleischmann company this morning, I remembered an interview with Mr Leopold Heher in the January/February 2015 issue of the German MRR magazine "Modellbahn Illustrierte". Here's a short excerpt:

Frage: Gibt es auch Dinge, die Sie heute anders machen würden?
Antwort: Wir hätten die Integration von Fleischmann noch schneller vorantreiben sollen. Allerdings mussten wir auf einem nicht besonders guten Kaufvertrag aufsetzen, der bereits vor meiner Zeit abgeschlossen wurde.

Here's my translation:

Question: Are there also things which you would do differently now?
Answer: We should have accelerated the integration of Fleischmann. However, we had to work on the basis of a sales contract that wasn't very good and had been completed before my time.

Mr Heher didn't like the terms of the Fleischmann acquisition. Was he referring to the pensions?

Best regards,
Mark
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
Offline NS1200  
#16 Posted : 05 August 2015 17:33:59(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,439
Kimball,

I know this superannuation thing,my former colleagues of P&O (Peninsular and Oriental Steamship Co.) had it too.
It has some advantages.
I think you can take the money and run a bit earlier if you wish,rather than waiting till the age of 67 in Holland.
Within our parliament a study is underway to possibly adopt the British system of superannuation,bringing old age state pension forward for a maximum of 5 years.
Needless to say that you are getting less as compared to later retirement.
For those getting jobless in their late fifties (including me) the arrangement could be a blessing.

Paul.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline steventrain  
#17 Posted : 05 August 2015 21:25:09(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,745
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline steventrain  
#18 Posted : 11 August 2015 17:26:55(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,745
Letter from fleischmann.

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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