 Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 3,999 Location: Paremata, Wellington
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A scene in the T-house video prompts me to query turnouts on Parallel lines that face each other. Here in NZ, to the best of my knowledge wherever there is double-track, the turnouts always face away from the direction of travel, yet this clip (sorry for the quality) shows two trains travelling toward each other and either could cross to the other track - indeed I would fear vibration could cause a blade to move. Yet I am also aware of situations where one train can 'overtake' another, such as a high-speed passenger train passing a slower freight train. Worldwide, is it common to have turnouts allowing crossing to an oncoming track? Thanks and hope it's not a silly question.  Cookee |
Cookee Wellington  |
 1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz
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 Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 800 Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
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Now that most mainlines are BiDirectional there has to be facing points , In Oz these can be used at track speed except for the XPT which has to drop speed down to what the max freight speed is in that area although this can vary just to make it easy for drivers to remember HA HA Most route knowledge is kept in the grey matter & usually a mud map is not used like on European trains except when learning the road . When you consider that you have enough knowledge up in the brain cells a "Inspector "will travel with you & most times certify you as capable of driving trains over that particular section of track which could be as little as 1 KM long up to 500 kms in length . Yep a bit scary when you see a train crossing over in front of you going at track speed .
Cheers Tom in Oz
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1 user liked this useful post by Tom Jessop
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,448
Location: DE-NW
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Hi! Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop  Now that most mainlines are BiDirectional there has to be facing points Same in Germany. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
1 user liked this useful post by H0
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 Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,343 Location: Southwest Ohio
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The ICE Eschede train crash was caused when a wheel failed, tore away the guard rail at a turnout facing traffic, which then allowed the next coach to derail and transfer the points to the adjacent track. Then all subsequent coaches tried to switch to the other track at high speed. All this at a street overpass which collapsed onto the train when a coach destroyed a bridge pier. They still use turnouts that face traffic, but they are now placed where there are no obstacles or bridges near them. The event was a perfect storm of disaster. The broken wheel by itself wasn't bad, but when it happened at a switch near an overpassing bridge turned it into mayhem. |
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397. |
1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,448
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: biedmatt The broken wheel by itself wasn't bad, but when it happened at a switch near an overpassing bridge turned it into mayhem. A long chain of small faults led to the big tragedy. And the wheel played an important role. The wheel was bad. The wheels didn't undergo extensive reliability tests and they were replaced at calculated intervals. After the accident it turned out those intervals were too long. At the day before the accident they noticed that the dimensions of the wheelset were not within specified tolerances - but it was not replaced and the train went into service. The steel tyre of the wheel broke and smashed through the floor of a compartments. The passengers did not pull the emergency brake. This would have prevented the accident. The passengers went to the conductor two coaches away to report the damage. The conductor didn't pull the emergency brake either, but went to inspect the damage. Then came the fatal turnout, close to a bridge. After the accident DB inspected their net for other places where turnouts where close to obstacles to prevent similar accidents. And that type of wheel (metal wheel with rubber ring and steel tyre) is no longer used for high-speed trains in Germany. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
1 user liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,343 Location: Southwest Ohio
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Hi Tom, As I understand it, this wheel design had been used in passenger service for many years and they then tired them on the ICE to stop vibrations causing the silverware and china to buzz on the dining tables. Unfortunately, they didn't do extensive tests on the wheel at the operating speeds the ICE would run and it was eventually proven the wheel design was woefully inadequate for the stresses. The passenger even moved his family from that compartment to another before telling the conductor about the piece of metal that came up through the floor, piercing the armrest of his seat. Many, many opportunities to stop the disaster and all were missed. A very unfortunate event. Usually when a disaster happens there are some lucky moments when something happens that helps to make the event less destructive than it may have been. With this event, everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. A dark day in railway passenger service. |
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397. |
1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
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Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 786 Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
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Originally Posted by: cookee_nz A scene in the T-house video prompts me to query turnouts on Parallel lines that face each other. Here in NZ, to the best of my knowledge wherever there is double-track, the turnouts always face away from the direction of travel, yet this clip (sorry for the quality) shows two trains travelling toward each other and either could cross to the other track - indeed I would fear vibration could cause a blade to move. Yet I am also aware of situations where one train can 'overtake' another, such as a high-speed passenger train passing a slower freight train. Worldwide, is it common to have turnouts allowing crossing to an oncoming track? Thanks and hope it's not a silly question. Cookee hi cookee, in the real world; crossovers on two-way-traffic are set up in pairs using 4 turnouts so any train traveling in either direction can change to any track. this however is the case on class-1 heavy traffic lines. they are located usually before and some distance after a bridge or tunnel so one track can be "shut down" for maintenance or catenary problem etc. a single crossover isn't really of much use if the train can't get back to it's original track. in the model world this can be challenging as well as fun; to pretend a train has stalled for whatever reason on the main line. now you have to dodge your trains around the obstacle until the maintenance gang can sort out the trouble. scenarios like this add a great deal of enjoyment to the operation of a mrr so it's well worth the extra time spent planing ahead while your still in the desighn stage. mikey |
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning . |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,448
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: biedmatt Hi Tom, As I understand it, this wheel design had been used in passenger service for many years and they then tired them on the ICE to stop vibrations causing the silverware and china to buzz on the dining tables. Wheels with a rubber layer had been used in streetcars (max. speed 100 km/h) for decades, but AFAIK this was the first attempt to use them on high-speed trains (max. speed 280 km/h). Completely new constructed wheels, much higher wheel load, much higher speed. Because of the rubber layer, the outer steel tyre gets distorted with every rotation of the wheel. It seems they underestimated that effect. If that steel tyre would have lasted a few miles more, then there probably wouldn't have been any fatalities. But it was the wrong wheel for that type of train. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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