Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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FYI, initial manual version = 236105/1214/Ha1Pw so-called MFX signal manual is available (refer to MFX icon in marketing docs) - however . from manual * mfx not until CS2 Software Version 4.0 (2nd quarter of 2015)An accompanying one page form that shipped with the product states ... The mfx functions on the signal cannot be used until Update 4.0 (2nd quarter of 2015) for the 60213/60214/60215 Central Station. with the publication of this update, you will find the current instructions on our Internet site for the product in question (Button: Details; Instructions).Comment: the button in question is actually called "Manual" not "Instructions" http://www.maerklin.com/...lang=en&art_nr=70392New Features = bounce CV39 PoM* 0 Slow movement (Default) 1 Medium fast movement 2 Fast movement 3 Medium fast movement with bouncing 4 Fast movement with bouncing 5 Medium fast movement with bouncing of Arm 1 only with 70411 / 70412 6 Medium fast movement with bouncing of Arm 2 only with 70411 / 70412 70391 Home Signal with a Narrow Mast. 70392 Home Signal with a Lattice Mast. 70411 Home Signal with a Narrow Mast. Hp1+Hp2 70412 Home Signal with a Lattice Mast. Hp1+Hp2  Edited by user 27 April 2015 01:00:51(UTC)
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Peter
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 8 users liked this useful post by clapcott
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Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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So.....
... What is a 60441 then ? |
Peter
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Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,068 Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
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Originally Posted by: clapcott  So.....
... What is a 60441 then ? A new breaking module from what I can gather. Bigger question is what will they cost, they look nice but............... |
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under . |
 1 user liked this useful post by Shamu
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Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: Belgium
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Originally Posted by: clapcott  FYI, so-called MFX signal manual is available (refer to MFX icon in marketing docs) - however . from manual * mfx not until CS2 Software Version 4.0 (2nd quarter of 2015)New Features = bounce CV39 PoM* 0 Slow movement (Default) 1 Medium fast movement 2 Fast movement 3 Medium fast movement with bouncing 4 Fast movement with bouncing 5 Medium fast movement with bouncing of Arm 1 only with 70411 / 70412 6 Medium fast movement with bouncing of Arm 2 only with 70411 / 70412 70391 Home Signal with a Narrow Mast. 70392 Home Signal with a Lattice Mast. 70411 Home Signal with a Narrow Mast. Hp1+Hp2 70412 Home Signal with a Lattice Mast. Hp1+Hp2  I still have a CS1, no CS2. Does this mean that I must program the thing manually using the DIP switches ?
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,701 Location: United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by: vimo 
I still have a CS1, no CS2. Does this mean that I must program the thing manually using the DIP switches ?
Yes you can use dip switch with 60212. See manual in PDF at first post. |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: Belgium
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Originally Posted by: steventrain  Originally Posted by: vimo 
I still have a CS1, no CS2. Does this mean that I must program the thing manually using the DIP switches ?
Yes you can use dip switch with 60212. See manual in PDF at first post. So, that's a step back from the current signals, like 76391, that are programmed without dip switches on the CS1.
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Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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Originally Posted by: vimo  So, that's a step back from the current signals, like 76391, that are programmed without dip switches on the CS1.
Personally I disagree about this being a backward stop. Aside from having no previous option for DCC, the 763xx setup was (unnecessarily) confusing to too many people An address would, in the majority of cases, be set only once and not be prone to "get reset" - as was a symptom of the 763xx. I think the 763xx series had(have) at least two deficiencies 1) the detachable clip - bad move 2) can(could) loose there settings. That said, there are a number of other unanswered questions and potential compromises The manual does not refer to the address of 2nd arm (70411/2). usually this would be either a) automatically the next address or b) an auxillay CV for a separate address. The "next sequential address" discipline may not be to everyone's liking, but by reducing options, it reduces confusion. We still do not know why these are called MFX signals - there is no mention in the manual. It may refer to the decoder and its setup ability, or some (new) operational characteristic. And, while I am unsure how it relates to a semaphore, the 764xx signals are likely to use the same configuration technology must provide for the distance signal address in the decoder as well. Edited by user 31 January 2015 21:20:55(UTC)
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Peter
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 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
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Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: Belgium
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Originally Posted by: clapcott  Originally Posted by: vimo  So, that's a step back from the current signals, like 76391, that are programmed without dip switches on the CS1.
Personally I disagree about this being a backward stop. Aside from having no previous option for DCC, the 763xx setup was (unnecessarily) confusing to too many people An address would in the majority of cases be set only one and not prone to "get reset" - as was a symptom of the 763xx. I think the 763xx series had(have) at least two deficiencies 1) the detachable clip - bad move 2) can(could) loose there settings. That said, there are a number of other unanswered questions and potential compromises The manual does not refer to the address of 2nd arm (70411/2). usually this would be either a) automatically the next address or b) an auxillay CV for a separate address. The "next sequential address" discipline may not be to everyone's liking, but by reducing options, it reduces confusion. We still do not know why these are called MFX signals - there is no mention in the manual. It may refer to the decoder and its setup ability, or some (new) operational characteristic. And, while I am unsure how it relates to a semaphore, the 764xx signals are likely to use the same configuration technology must provide for the distance signal address in the decoder as well. Hi Clapcott, thanks for your reply. I personally never had any problem losing addresses on any of my 10 or so 764xx signals. They all work fine, with my CS1 except when I added a couple more trains with lights in the cars that probably ended up exceeding the transformer capacity a bit. When I read the doc of the new signals, my understanding of the mFX capabilities are to set the speed at which the signals move (slow, medium and fast) and its bouncing. I'm not sure there is a need for anything more to handle the second arm. I never had any "arm" signals but I would guess that the green / green-yellow / red will each set both arms as they need to be and that one should not need to set them separately. Just a guess, though. Anyway, I'll get one whenever it is available (is they don't delay delivery AGAIN) and I'll decide whether I want more or not.
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Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC) Posts: 5,862 Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
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Hi Guys, I ordered two 70412 and one distant 70381 two years ago when they first appeared in the new items brochure from 2013. I am now quite excited about them as they will replace a 7040 and 7240 which I have over 40 years and are acting poorly now. The price on the 70412 home signal from Lokshop is 53,79EUR. I don't know if this will be the same price when they arrive in the springtime though? Peter
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Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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Hi Vimo, Originally Posted by: vimo  I personally never had any problem losing addresses on any of my 10 or so 764xx signals. They all work fine, with my CS1 except when I added a couple more trains with lights in the cars that probably ended up exceeding the transformer capacity a bit.
I wasn't aware the 764xx signals were available yet. If you mean 763xx, then as you say there are exceptions - and my personal view is that there are/were too many. Quote: When I read the doc of the new signals, my understanding of the mFX capabilities are to set the speed at which the signals move (slow, medium and fast) and its bouncing.
The only reference in the manual about mfx is a comment that it wont be supported until v4.0 of the CS2 firmware. There is still no information on what actual features (function, capabilities, benefits) the so called "mfx support" provides The functionality for adjusting the speed of the arm movement (both configuration and operation) is not restricted by protocol - Both DCC and MM(fx) support this as shown in the manual. Quote: I'm not sure there is a need for anything more to handle the second arm. Given that the 70411/2 marketing documentation indicate the capability of 3 aspect, then 2 addresses (DCC or MM) are needed. The documentation is mute on this subject. A mfx decoder can certainly support multiple aspects without a "2nd address" , but I do not think it likely that Marklin will cut off their nose to spite the face and dictate that the 70411/2 can ONLY be used with mfx. Quote:... don't delay delivery AGAIN.... of course they will , as recent as the Jan delivery dates list, the 70391 was due in Jan15 - it is now Feb. The only reason the documentation was published was so that they didn't have to bear the complaints of the Nurnberg buyers about no progress - this is probably why it really only covers the 70391/2. As it is, the only item I have seen video of at the show is the single aspect signal 70392 ref the link to a video in Mikes post : at about the 40 second mark https://www.marklin-user...air-2015.aspx#post480876 |
Peter
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,701 Location: United Kingdom
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70391 is on yellow light mean delivery is starting.  |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
 1 user liked this useful post by steventrain
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Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 328
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Well, nice to watch the slow movement, easy to set the adresses; but see the two picture! No more comment.  Gap between long turnouts.  Gap normal turnouts. |
Best regards Martin |
 3 users liked this useful post by 60904
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,701 Location: United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by: 60904  Well, nice to watch the slow movement, easy to set the adresses; but see the two picture! No more comment.  Gap between long turnouts. Kit for underside is included with signal. |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,509 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: 60904  Well, nice to watch the slow movement, easy to set the adresses; but see the two picture! No more comment.  Are those white bits on the end connectors? Would be a bit of a worry to go putting down scenic material and get moisture into the innards through there. I think I would be blocking that gap with a bit of blue tack or something similar before doing scenic work.
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Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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Thought provoking images indeed.
While taking nothing way from the validity of the implied oversized dimensions of the base for C-Track model installations, I do think it worth noting that the images are shown to represent left-hand running. For normal dual mainline running the signals would be on the outside of the pair of tracks.
Of course, this usage falls down in stations and yards. So where did the 15mm number (mentioned in the installation diagrams) come from? Presumably it has some contextual foundation in reality.
Of more concern to me is the height loss (comparatively) between above/under base board mounting. With, for example, a 10mm think baseboard, the height difference to the signal arm changes by approx 25mm. (thats approx 2m @ 1:87). So ... Prototypically, what is the correct height of the signal arm above the track rails ? |
Peter
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Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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The following image is from MarklinTV episode 69 (5 minute mark) It may, or may not, show examples of the 70392 and 70412. Edit: actually the lattice work is quite different (rectangular rather than triangular pattern), maybe these are early prototypesI notice a) the height difference - between the 1 arm and 2 arm signals b) the distance of mast from track would appear to be much less than 15mm c) no evidence of the control box, however gauging from the bottom of the lattice work , where the mast metal is solid and comparing with images of the shipped item (and manual), the top of the box mus be right at ground level and barely covered by ballast. i.e. it is not really under or above board - but flush with the track.  |
Peter
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Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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FWIW I got too stressed to complete a full review , but aside from the visual and audio characteristics in the video do highlight the following - (like the m83/m84) Writing to CV1 will override the DIP switches - - Watch out if you have a MS2 and are programming the address on your loco decoder- (like the m84) the relay for block control is non latching - i.e. it turns off if the control signal is off - - rather audible click of the relay each time the power is turned off and on - - no external power to help prevent the chatter - CV40 for light brightness documents the factory default as 15 - it is actually 8 - - (subjective) red lens makes the Red appear less bright compared to the green - CV41 - undocumented default is 128 - - used to trim the horizontal aspect (suggest changing only in small steps) Edited by user 12 February 2015 03:48:11(UTC)
| Reason: HIGHLIGHT warning when setting loco address on a layout |
Peter
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 2 users liked this useful post by clapcott
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Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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Originally Posted by: clapcott  So.....
... What is a 60441 then ? FYI - feedback from Marklin ... Dear Mr. Clapcott,
thanks for your question.
There is a mistake in the instruction manual of the signal 70392 on page 49. The item #60441 should be the item 72442.
Sincerely yours,
your account manager Markus Schurr
Checking the downloadable manual today, it has been corrected, The date code shows 236105/1214/Ha 1Pw. This compared to 236105/1214/Ha 2Pw shipped with early products. i.e. the corrected manual has the same publication date but a different qualifier.. |
Peter
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 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
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Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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The Recent CS2 update (actually dated 17.03.2015) includes 2 template files for the configuration of the new signals /70xxx_dcc_Formsignale.cs2 /764xx_dcc_Lichtsignale.cs2 It must be understood that these CVs represent a superset of the features in the product range. not all products can make use of the CVs documented You can, of course, create and save your own templates with more specific meaning (including translation of the description) Probably not too important ... however ..., ... the default value for CV29 = "number of subaddresses" is shown as = 128 (field observation by reading this CV shows it is "192".) In DCC world (RP 9.2.2) bit 8 (the 128 value) indicates a "Accessory decoder") . marklin has documented bits5&6 as .... - bit 5 = Decodertyp: - this has added information from the 74461 - basic or advanced accessory decoder presumablu 0=basic, 1=advanced - bit 6 = Adressmethode: - this has added information from the 74461 - decoder or output address presumably 0=decoder, 1=output address As described, with CV1/9 using all 256 values of CV1 - Bit6 being set(1) , as observed, would have to be correct - therefore the template is to be questioned ... the default value for CV33 = "number of subaddresses" is shown as = 4 (field observation by reading this CV shows it is "1" for a 70391 - It would be expected to be "2" for the 3/4 aspect signals)... the default value for CV40 = "brightness light" = 8 - this is correct as observed but is different from the manual which states 15 NOTE: for the 764xx CVs, there is a difference in the CV documented for the "Cross fading behavior Distant Signal". In the manual it is CV54 in the CS2s template it is 53Edited at: by user 10 May 2015 05:51:01(UTC)
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Peter
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 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
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