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DB E44 and SNCF BB10000 together on the same tracks !
 Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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Hi Friends, Found on the web this incredible picture, that's why I've copied it here. The German E44 with the French BB10000 on the same tracks, somewhere in France in the early 1950's I was so happy to find a good reason to run simultaneously two of my favourite models on my layout  . More details on this history will come soon. And if someone knows more about this, please post ! Best regards Joël TrainIride attached the following image(s): |
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 11 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
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hennabm, foumaro, Tom Jessop, Alsterstreek, analogmike, jvuye, RayF, kimballthurlow, petestra, BrandonVA, Jimmy Thompson
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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So I've tried to reproduce this mood at home.... TrainIride attached the following image(s): |
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8 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,446
Location: DE-NW
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Hi! Originally Posted by: TrainIride  The German E44 with the French BB10000 on the same tracks, somewhere in France in the early 1950s interesting photo. The loco on the picture is E 244 22, a loco compatible with the SNCF voltage. It is not an E 44. It is based on the E 44 and became E 44 189 after a conversion in 1965. On a model layout, an E 44 will do as a substitute for an E 244. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
5 users liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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Originally Posted by: H0 Hi! Originally Posted by: TrainIride The German E44 with the French BB10000 on the same tracks, somewhere in France in the early 1950s interesting photo. The loco on the picture is E 244 22, a loco compatible with the SNCF voltage. It is not an E 44. It is based on the E 44 and became E 44 189 after a conversion in 1965. On a model layout, an E 44 will do as a substitute for an E 244. Hi Tom You are absolutely right ! In fact E244 was based on E44 Prototype and was used in Germany on the Höllental railroad to test catenary feeded with 20000v 50Hz Ac current. French SNCF was interested by these tests because 20kv AC power was reducing costs of power plants and catenary installation. Instead of previous common 1500v DC current more easy to drive motors, but needing bigger overhead copper wires and more power plants along the tracks... It is interesting to see that AC vs. DC current was also a question for real train companies - same for modellers  . So E244-22 was lent to SNCF for tests on a first small 78km AC line in France. SNCF ordered also to ALSTOM a loco to run on these tracks. Alstom used parts of the NS1100 prototype to build the "BB10001" equipped with DC motors but embedding an AC/DC converter... ... |
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5 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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 The E244 22 prototype was build with parts of the E44 005 |
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7 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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 The BB10001 prototype was at first named BB8051  |
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6 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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BB10001 has even been painted in blue : TrainIride attached the following image(s): |
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5 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
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 Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: TrainIride Hi Friends, Found on the web this incredible picture, that's why I've copied it here. The German E44 with the French BB10000 on the same tracks, somewhere in France in the early 1950's I was so happy to find a good reason to run simultaneously two of my favourite models on my layout . More details on this history will come soon. And if someone knows more about this, please post ! Best regards Joël Ok,easy enough! The 244 was in France to test the new 50hz catenary system. The 244 is a variation of the 144, used on the Hollentalbahn at the time which was one of the few industrial frequency rr in Europe. Obviously it had to be moved to the test grounds, which explains why it was in tow of a 1500v DC loco. Hope this helps Cheers Jacques |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
3 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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 Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,233 Location: Montreal, QC
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Originally Posted by: TrainIride Just for information, this locomotive (CC6051) was ordered from BBC/SAAS in the early 1950s and shares a lot in common with a very well known Swiss locomotive series. Any guesses which Maerklin model I am referring to? Regards Mike C
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4 users liked this useful post by mike c
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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Originally Posted by: mike c
Just for information, this locomotive (CC6051) was ordered from BBC/SAAS in the early 1950s and shares a lot in common with a very well known Swiss locomotive series.
Any guesses which Maerklin model I am referring to?
Regards
Mike C
Maybe the one at right on the pic ? Best regards Joël TrainIride attached the following image(s): |
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3 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: TrainIride Hi Friends, Found on the web this incredible picture, that's why I've copied it here. The German E44 with the French BB10000 on the same tracks, somewhere in France in the early 1950's I was so happy to find a good reason to run simultaneously two of my favourite models on my layout . More details on this history will come soon. And if someone knows more about this, please post ! Best regards Joël Ok,easy enough! The 244 was in France to test the new 50hz catenary system. The 244 is a variation of the 144, used on the Hollentalbahn at the time which was one of the few industrial frequency rr in Europe. Obviously it had to be moved to the test grounds, which explains why it was in tow of a 1500v DC loco. Hope this helps Cheers Jacques Hi Jacques, The BB10001 was not a DC Loco . It has four DC engines but had an embedded AC/DC converter to run (and only) under AC catenary ! Best regards Joël TrainIride attached the following image(s): |
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2 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,446
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: jvuye Obviously it had to be moved to the test grounds, which explains why it was in tow of a 1500v DC loco. On the photo both locos have one raised pantograph. The E 244 (the E is significant here as the E 244 was for 50 Hz while the 244 of the DR was for 16 2/3 Hz - and an E 144 would have been a DC loco) was an AC loco - so what power is on the catenary if both raised their pantographs? Maybe there is no power and both locos were just on display? |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
1 user liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: jvuye Obviously it had to be moved to the test grounds, which explains why it was in tow of a 1500v DC loco. On the photo both locos have one raised pantograph. The E 244 (the E is significant here as the E 244 was for 50 Hz while the 244 of the DR was for 16 2/3 Hz - and an E 144 would have been a DC loco) was an AC loco - so what power is on the catenary if both raised their pantographs? Maybe there is no power and both locos were just on display? Both were powered, at first experiment with 20000v 50Hz Then, the voltage was raised to 25000v 50Hz Best regards Joël |
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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Again,
BB8051 renumbered BB10001, was an AC loco !! |
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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And more than ten years later, in 1963,
BB10001 was again modified to be able to run on both systems:
25kV 50Hz AC
1500V DC
Best regards
Joël
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Joined: 22/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 563 Location: Sunny Southern Alberta
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The NS 1100 series was based on the four-axle SNCF BB 8001 locomotive and BB 8100 series. Wildrose-Wally attached the following image(s): |
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6 users liked this useful post by Wildrose-Wally
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Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
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Originally Posted by: Wildrose-Wally The NS 1100 series was based on the four-axle SNCF BB 8001 locomotive and BB 8100 series. Yes, and you can see on the pics above of BB8051/BB10001 , behind the front SNCF logo, the shape of the NS one ! To build the AC Loco, ALSTOM company used external chassis ans body of NS 1100 serie they were making in the early 1950's See aboveThank you for the pic and information ! Best Regards Joël |
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3 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
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DB E44 and SNCF BB10000 together on the same tracks !
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