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Marklin devices and "common ground" in rails and/or sharing power
 Joined: 14/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 125 Location: Madrid
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Hi, I am trying to write a short document about common ground use in Märklin layouts and I have been searching on the forum, but I am not able to find the information I am looking for. It is clear that 6015 and 6017 boosters admit to build a layout with "common ground" over the rails, and also they can shar the source transformers. It is clear that 60173 DOES NOT allow for "common ground" (due to its power output stage in "H bridge mode") It is clear that 60174 DOES allow for "common ground" It seems that 60213 DID NOT allow for "common ground" (???) It seems that 60215 DOES allow for "common ground" (???) It seems that initial versions of MS1 didn't allow for "common ground", latest DID. (???) It seems that 60212 DOES allow for "common ground". (???) At the end of the day, this is somehow a bit mess of unclear information..... Is there any place where we could have a clear list of which devices allow for "common ground" in the rails, and even further, which ones allow for sharing the source tranformers or power supplies? Or could anyone of you have such a list or help to build a final one with the information each one of us has? I would include, if possible the CSs updated by ESU and also the ESU ECoS station or any other brands to have the list as much comprehensive as possible. Standard S88 users (among many others) will thankfull us if we are able to build such a list as much comprehensive and clear as posible  Kind regards Javier
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 2 users liked this useful post by fje
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
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Hi! Originally Posted by: fje  It is clear that 60173 DOES NOT allow for "common ground" (due to its power output stage in "H bridge mode")
It is clear that 60174 DOES allow for "common ground" How do you define "common ground"? Both 60173 and 60174 have H bridges in the output - like all Mobile Stations and all Central Stations. The 60213 can have a common ground with 60215 or 60174. I don't know what they changed. Common ground with external power is not a problem, not even for early MS1s. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 14/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 125 Location: Madrid
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Originally Posted by: H0 Hi! Originally Posted by: fje It is clear that 60173 DOES NOT allow for "common ground" (due to its power output stage in "H bridge mode")
It is clear that 60174 DOES allow for "common ground" How do you define "common ground"? Both 60173 and 60174 have H bridges in the output - like all Mobile Stations and all Central Stations. The 60213 can have a common ground with 60215 or 60174. I don't know what they changed. Common ground with external power is not a problem, not even for early MS1s. Common ground: To be able to have one (the "ground" or the "common") cable output of all the boosters (including the control station) connected to the rails and not isolation in the rails..... 60173: First booster with "H bridge", but without any galvanic isolation, it doesn't allow for a "common ground", of course not with common external power supply. 60174: correction of Märklin over 60173 (and freely changed for it), it may have "H bridge" in the output, but it has "galvanic isolation" between the signal input and the output stage.... These are examples of such confusion problem, some versions of the central stations have such "galvanic isolation", some doesn't, and this is the reason I am trying to build the correct list. People can have older, intermediate and newer devices and such a clear list will be very helpful, I feel. Rgds. Javier
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: fje Common ground: To be able to have one (the "ground" or the "common") cable output of all the boosters (including the control station) connected to the rails and not isolation in the rails..... Are there any devices that do not allow this beside 60173, 60213 and early 60214? Maybe this is just a problem for some items with two connections (CAN bus and track ground)? For 60213 and M track they recommended the 6017 booster before the 60174 was available. So common ground is not an issue with 60213+6017, it just was a problem with 60213 and 60173. Maybe you get a much shorter list if you only register problematic items. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC) Posts: 332 Location: Madrid,
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Hello, With all "Old digital", I mean, 6021, IB, 6015, 6017, it is allow to use a common ground without problems, regardless of the transformers to feed digital devices. The problem start with the "new digital", up to now, I mean from CS1 to CS5 or whatever, in this case, the gold rule must be, "each digital device must have his own transformer (or power supply)", without exceptions, this trafos or power supplys must feed only its assigned digital device, once this habeen accomplished they can use the common ground in the output stage. The 60173 is a bad design and should not be used in any case. The Mega-trafos are not allowed with the "new digital", but can be used in layouts with the "old digital", while the new digital keeps their own trafos  In this picture You can swap the 6021 or booster by new digital device without problems. Is is my opinion Best regards |
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4 users liked this useful post by amartinezv
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