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Prototypical consists in the 60s and 70s question
 Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi all Sorry if this is in the wrong section - if so mods please move. I have two questions regarding consist make up during the 60s and 70s. The first one concerns the old tin plates of 4022 (2nd class), 4023 (1st class), 4024 (dining car) and 4026 (luggage van). What is the correct order for running as per 1960s? I remember from a previous thread at one point the luggage car was directly behind the lok. Was this still the case in the 60s  Where did the 4047 (post wagen) fit in the above consist or did they run them as separate consists made up totally of post wagens? Same for the sleeping cars - where did they fit in the above consists? Then I have a similar question regarding the turquoise and cream cars; 4091 (1st), 4092 (2nd), 4093 (luggage van) and 4094 dining car. Again how if at all would the 4280 and/or 4157 fit in the consist or a separate train? These questions are so I can run them prototypically in Bayern Neustadt, next time it's out.  Thanks in anticipation.  Mike |
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital? |
 9 users liked this useful post by hennabm
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 Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Isn't there a site showing prototype consists in pictures somewhere? I seem to remember seeing something of the sort. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi Ray
In the distant recesses of my memory I can just about recall something like that. But the big question is where.............
Mike |
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital? |
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 Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 422 Location: Niagara, Ontario
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I remember reading that some German or Prussian law required the car behind the locomotive not be for passengers. If memory serves it was an old law from the days of wooden coaches reacting to the fact that in accidents, the car nearest the locomotive was usually the most damaged.
In some pictures of the fifties and sixties I notice the luggage van, or baggage car is in the middle of the train. Were people allowed to walk through it? Was it the result of two trains being coupled together at some meets point to then go on to a common destination?
For what it is worth, in my world, the consist is whatever I like, including mixing CIWL and DSG sleeping cars.
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5 users liked this useful post by Dreadnought
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,243 Location: Montreal, QC
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Mike:
As there was a relatively high number of terminus stations (kopfbahnhofs) in Europe, it would be perfectly normal to see a train running with the baggage or mail car at either the front or the rear of a consist. It was also possible to find those cars in the middle of a consist, as trains would often have coaches added for parts of the run that would end up either in front of or behind of the baggage car.
So you can pretty much run any way you prefer, unless you are modelling a specific route and need to know whether the baggage would have been at the head or at the tail for that specific route segment.
Regards
Mike C
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5 users liked this useful post by mike c
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 Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,266 Location: Hobart, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Dreadnought  I remember reading that some German or Prussian law required the car behind the locomotive not be for passengers. If memory serves it was an old law from the days of wooden coaches reacting to the fact that in accidents, the car nearest the locomotive was usually the most damaged.
In some pictures of the fifties and sixties I notice the luggage van, or baggage car is in the middle of the train. Were people allowed to walk through it? Was it the result of two trains being coupled together at some meets point to then go on to a common destination?
For what it is worth, in my world, the consist is whatever I like, including mixing CIWL and DSG sleeping cars. Hello, Yes, that is correct. see 2nd paragraph of : http://www.dbtrains.com/en/epochII.6Regards, PJ Edited by moderator 03 February 2015 12:59:36(UTC)
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6 users liked this useful post by PJMärklin
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Joined: 25/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Hi Mike, I'm not sure if this is the site you were referring to but it does carry useful information on this topic; GermanrailRegards, Michael.
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5 users liked this useful post by Token
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 Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC) Posts: 705 Location: Finland
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Hi all,
I took a look at old Märklin catalogues and their passenger train sets like 3188 where the lokomotive is Br01. Coaches behind are 2.class, 1.class, dining and luggage so your guess 4022, 4027, 4024 and 4026 seems to be right if Märklin has it right.
BR
Åke
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3 users liked this useful post by Br502362
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 Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC) Posts: 5,862 Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
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Don't forget though, guys, that when these trains entered a terminal station like Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich,et al the Loks were uncoupled, a new Lok came in from behind to pull the train to its next stop so the configuration became reversed. Peter 
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5 users liked this useful post by petestra
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 Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,875 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: Token Hi Mike, I'm not sure if this is the site you were referring to but it does carry useful information on this topic; GermanrailRegards, Michael. Drilling down in that topic, one finds nice train compositions: http://germanrail.fr.yuk...ompositions#.VNDwmCjSVKJOther hint, google for the German word "Zugbildung". |
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4 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi all Thanks for the excellent links to the other sites. All very useful. I now have a far better understanding of putting together my consists. cheers Mike |
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital? |
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,875 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: hennabm Where did the 4047 (post wagen) fit in the above consist or did they run them as separate consists made up totally of post wagens? Both happened. Memory from my youth: When a single one was attached to a passenger train, it ran at the head end next to the luggage car. |
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2 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,422 Location: Montreal, Canada
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Thinking about my 1955 world, I am wondering about schedules and the order of the cars in freight trains.
Is there any kind of rule book about placing dangerous materials next to each other?
... and especially in the instance where there were mixed trains of passengers and freight?
A site with lists alongside of photos and numbers for consists would be fantastic... especially if it had the dates that those trains ran.
Guessing these would be lost or deleted records for freight?
Seems easier with passenger trains that ran regular schedules than with freight of course.
Great forum thread, though, must say this is helpful.
Thanks
Mark |
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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1 user liked this useful post by Mark5
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Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,422 Location: Montreal, Canada
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DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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3 users liked this useful post by Mark5
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,875 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: Mark5 I am wondering about schedules and the order of the cars in freight trains.
Drilling down in that topic, one finds nice train compositions: http://germanrail.fr.yuk...ompositions#.VNDwmCjSVKJOriginally Posted by: Mark5 Is there any kind of rule book about placing dangerous materials next to each other? Yes, German laws and regulations. Plenty, as it is Germany after all. And I could not find a synopsis. The fact that the definition of dangerous goods changed since 1955 makes a research even more cumbersome. :-( |
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3 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,422 Location: Montreal, Canada
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Thanks Ak!
Been spending a good bit of time there. Amazing how they have it spelled out in lists with proto and model numbers to match.
I have yet to get more familiar with the numbers, but from the photos, I have only seen box cars and auto-transport, and not much that indicates a 1955 date.
Once I move the date forward, there is a lot more in 58, 59 and the earlier 60s. Exciting stuff there!
- Mark |
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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1 user liked this useful post by Mark5
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