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Badly jerking SDS motored Crocodiles 39563 and 39565 - problem solved
 Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,552 Location: Finland
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Hi all, Todays extended digital locos running session reminded me about very bad running charasteristics of these two SBB Crocodiles 29680 starter set (basically the same as 39563) and 39565. Both have mfx decoders and SDS (Soft Drive Sinus) motors. When I run them especially on the straight track sections they start to jerk very badly. The brown one 39565 is even worse than the green one 29680. It looks like the locos don't get power and suddenly they stop and then get "too much" power and make quick "sprints". Like a problem with condensators or something similar. Both were running perfectly when I bought them. Their running look so awful that I don't want to run these anymore. It is also frustrating to have faulty locos in display cases (vitrines) even if they look great. I have bought 39565 as new from German eBay and paid over 430 euro for it. 29680 came as "like new" second hand also from Germany and I paid 250 euro for it. So around 700 euro paid for very badly working locos. Sounds are ok in both. 39565 has many sounds and 29680 has only whistle sound. Is this a SDS control board problem or what causes these issues? I'm glad I have two C-Sinus Crocodiles green 39560 and brown 39561. They have no problems and also the two motor black Crocodile 37567 has no problems. The track is clean and only these two Crocodiles 29680 and especially 39565 has these bad running problems. What should I do to get them fixed? I have also two SDS brown Crocodiles from 31860 Crocodile sets. I run these two very seldom and I could maybe take some parts from them to these two... Maybe not a good idea?  Regards, Janne |
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner. |
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 Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Hi Janne, have you checked if the wheels are clean?
Also, since they are second hand, have you checked that the motor settings are ok? Had that kind of behaviour once, the decoder was settled for a c90 engine, changing to c- sinus solved the problem
Regards |
 German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
 1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,552 Location: Finland
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Originally Posted by: franciscohg  Hi Janne, have you checked if the wheels are clean?
Also, since they are second hand, have you checked that the motor settings are ok? Had that kind of behaviour once, the decoder was settled for a c90 engine, changing to c- sinus solved the problem
Regards Yes, the wheels are clean. It looks like these two have bad grounding or power feeding problems to the motors. 39565 came to me as factory new and 39563 had no problems when I got it. Both ran perfectly then. Anyway could you please explain which CV is the motor setting? I can check if there is something wrong. I have read about common problems with SDS motor control boards or something similar. Regards, Janne |
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner. |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,446
Location: DE-NW
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Hi, Janne,
Bad ground contact can be the result of too much oil in the axle bearings. Not specific to SDS in my experience, I have seen this problem with SDS and non-SDS locos. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
5 users liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Enter lok configuration, hit CV access, in the motor tab you will find the motor type settings, check that c-sine is selected. If one was factory new, should be right. As Tom said, check for too much oil.
Regards |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,552 Location: Finland
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Hi, Thank you very much for the advices. I checked from both Crocodiles 29680/39563 and 39565 what motor type is selected. It is "2 ungeregelter Motor". Is this same as SDS as this loco has SDS Soft Drive Sinus motor? There is a choice of "1 C-Sinus", but is this only for the old C-Sinus? I have not changed these settings so they should be ok. It can be too much oil in the axle bearings as I have oiled them a few times. Only small drops of oil with very thin needle, but it is possible they are over oiled. As the track is clean and the problems are on the straight track sections it has something to do with the grounding through the wheels. When running on curved tracks the wheels are forced against the tracks and this gives better ground contact. So I will try to get the excess oil off if there is too much of it. It seems like I have to figure out how to do it without dismantling the wheels. Maybe compressed air will remove the excess oil from the middle of the axle bushings as it is very lightweight Faller oil? I can clean the sides of the axles near the wheels with paper. I will buy you some beers Tom, if you ever visit Finland. If I get these nice Crocodiles to run well it makes me really happy  . I hope for the best. Regards, Janne |
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner. |
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Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,552 Location: Finland
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Hi, Just a quick update. I started with green 29680/39563.  It had dirt on the smaller wheels. I dismantled this loco and cleaned everything and took away oil from the axles. I also removed one complete axle per side with the wheels attached which comes out and cleaned it. Now it runs well and doesn't jerk at all. So it was my own fault and this is a cheap fix for these issues. I hope that 39565 has only these same "problems"... Thanks again Tom! Regards, Janne |
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner. |
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Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,552 Location: Finland
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Hi all, Now both Crocodiles are running perfectly!  The brown one 39565 had all wheels clean, but just a little too much oil in some axles/bearings. I didn't use compress air, I just wiped off oil with paper. I'm very glad I got them "fixed" . These Crocodiles with SDS motors seems to be much more sensitive for just a little bit too much oil than DCM 5-pole or C-Sinus Crocodiles. I want to add these Crocodiles were not swimming in the oil. They are just very sensitive for over oiling. I learned now that it's better to double check everything before blaming locos for bad running charasteristics. It was the users fault (mine) and not these locos. It feels now like I got back again two nice Crocodiles as they were totally useless before they were "fixed".  Regards, Janne |
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner. |
5 users liked this useful post by Janne75
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 Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,068 Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
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Glad you got them sorted Janne. Lucky we have Tom (and others) to point us in the right direction when things don't quite work right. Must admit that checking for axel oil would not have been high up on my list of things to check. I trust we all remember to check the bleeding obvious AND the less than obvious when we have "issues" with our loco's. I can't remember the abbreviation we used to use back in the 90's for less than bright customers but it was "the fault has been traced to between the keyboard and the seat", much the same applies to modern loco's and their operators.  |
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under . |
2 users liked this useful post by Shamu
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 Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
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 Hi Janne. I'm glad to hear you got the problem solved. After reading the posts, I realised how obvious the problem was, since it only occurred on straight track. I would never use compressed air to remove oil, since you can't control where it ends. Whipping or sucking is my favourite. Per. |
If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.  |
2 users liked this useful post by Purellum
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 Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,692 Location: United Kingdom
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hi Janne, I have the same problem two years ago with 37770 poor running with too much oil on wheels axles so I removed dirty oil and clean before running fine. |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
2 users liked this useful post by steventrain
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 Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC) Posts: 263 Location: Denver
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Originally Posted by: H0 Hi, Janne,
Bad ground contact can be the result of too much oil in the axle bearings. Not specific to SDS in my experience, I have seen this problem with SDS and non-SDS locos. Thanks Tom. I will remember this advice. At least I hope that I will remember! |
Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg |
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 Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,772 Location: New Zealand
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Originally Posted by: Shamu I can't remember the abbreviation we used to use back in the 90's for less than bright customers but it was "the fault has been traced to between the keyboard and the seat"....... PBKC, pronounced PuBKaC - "Problem Between Keyboard and Chair". Many a Helpdesk ticket has been closed with that particular problem resolution code (and probably still is!). Glad to hear your locos are now working OK Janne. Will have to remember that particular fix in case it is needed! And thanks to Tom as well.
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3 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,552 Location: Finland
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Thanks to all, It was a nice way to start this day by fixing those two Crocodiles and run them and enjoy them . Now when I know what kinds of issues the excess oil can cause to locos running behaviour I started to think about some of my other models. I have had some problems earlier mostly on straight track sections with some of my BR 85 and BR 86 steam locos. The reason for not perfect grounding through wheels can be caused by the same thing = too much oil on the axles. I had bad running on straight track sections with my DRG BR 85 loco (33081 Delta). I cleaned the wheels, but not the axles. Those problems dissapeared when I installed many lead weights in it to increase it's weight quite much, traction and grounding through wheels. If I clean those probably a little over oiled axles it might get even better. I have learned my lesson regarding oiling axles. Locos doesn't need any extra oil and oiling should be done only if there starts to come noises from dry axles. Less oil is better than a few tiny extra drops "just in case"... Janne |
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner. |
2 users liked this useful post by Janne75
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Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,068 Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
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Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Originally Posted by: Shamu I can't remember the abbreviation we used to use back in the 90's for less than bright customers but it was "the fault has been traced to between the keyboard and the seat"....... PBKC, pronounced PuBKaC - "Problem Between Keyboard and Chair". Many a Helpdesk ticket has been closed with that particular problem resolution code (and probably still is!). Glad to hear your locos are now working OK Janne. Will have to remember that particular fix in case it is needed! And thanks to Tom as well. Cheers David, That brought it straight back....... just a minor difference (Au-v-NZ I guess ) "Problem exists Between Keyboard and Chair" - pronounced PeeBKaC |
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under . |
1 user liked this useful post by Shamu
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 Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: Purellum ... Whipping or sucking is my favourite. Per. Naughty, naughty!  |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: Janne75 .... Less oil is better than a few tiny extra drops "just in case"... Janne In fact I mostly recommend powdered graphite for axles. The little plus? It's conductive!  Cheers |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
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 Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC) Posts: 417 Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
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I believe Atlas makes Conductalube. It is an oil that is also conductive.... |
Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6 |
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