Hello Marklinists,

I am curious to know when and where the livery differences were used between the "red" and "silver" livery uses on the Senator, since Marklin produces/d both of those models.

I am not talking about the Komet night train, but only the Senator day trains.
[Some confusion above resolved in following posts.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_Class_VT_10.5

Here are some of the photos off the net.

Edited by user 22 October 2014 07:13:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Thanks Mike, I did look further and find some more info on the two trains here.
http://www.micromacromun...l_car_train_br_vt_105_db
http://www.micromacromun...d_rail_car_train_senator

However, there seem to be few points of discrepancy that can lead to confusion.

If you notice the photo of the Komet prototype above, the red stripes are on the windows themselves, however the Marklin edition often marketed as "Marklin Senator 39101" has the red stripes under the window. This led me to believe [incorrectly] there were two types of Senator trains and a third train called a "Komet" with the different livery. [Edit: Finally understood that 39101 is the second livery 1955 of the "Senator" and not the look-alike Komet night train. Didn't read Mike's post properly.]

Do you know if there was a change of the livery for the "Komet" at some point, or does Marklin have it wrong?
I am guessing that the launch at the German Transportation Exhibition (DVA) in Munich in 1953 must have had the eagle and cross, whereas once the train went into service they may have changed the stripes and used the DB logo as Marklin has it. That said, I have found no photos of the prototype to confirm that idea. It would also be good to know if there was a date the livery was changed. In fact, to the contrary, the surviving rail car of the Komet owned by Nurnberg railway enthusiasts, has the version with the stripe over the windows.
Listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komet_%28train%29
Seen better here: https://en.wikipedia.org...viewer/File:VT10551i.jpg
So I'm still curious.

Another difference not apparent in the two Marklin models [39100 and 39101] is the single-axle vs Jacobs trucks, as seen in the Wikipedia entry.
The MMR info states, "In addition to their use and paint scheme, these two trains also had design differences. While the cars for the Senator were equipped with single-axle running gear, the Komet had Jacobs trucks between the cars."

[Note: Rail car enthusiasts such as Glenn might find this link worth a look: http://www.nicospilt.com...land_treinstellen115.htm ]

I found a few interesting images worth posting here.
[A direct link to the a large version of the last image can be found here: http://trainlight.homedn...ages/senator_Weinert.jpg
...impressive night shot and placement of passengers by this MMR enthusiast.]

Edited by user 18 October 2014 18:36:19(UTC)  | Reason: Misunderstood differences; Komet vs 2nd Senator livery. Not 2 liveries on Komet.

Mark,

The original livery of the Senator simply had the letters DB for Deutsche Bundesbahn on the nose. The repaint in 1955 had the so-called DB Keks logo (DB in an oval).
The Komet had only the one livery, with the Deutsche Schlaf- und Speisewagen Gesellschaft logo on the nose.

No version of either train ever had the eagle and the cross. Hitler was long gone by 1953. The Komet (VT 10551) had only the one livery.

The Senator had the single Talgo like bogie between cars, while the Komet had a Jacobs truck with two bogies, more similar in many ways to what can be found on the TGV today.

Maerklin has, as I stated, made two models of the VT 10 501 "Senator", the 1953 and 1955 liveries. Maerklin has, AFAIK, not made a model of the VT 10 551 "Komet"

More on the "Komet": http://www.schlafwagen.net/fr_komet.htm
http://www.eisenbahnstif...s/bildergalerie/4198.jpg
There are other photos at eisenbahnstiftung.de

Regards

Mike C

Mark,

Many thanks for the reference , I did check out the link and found it very informative, I have used some of the VT 10.5 text to update my page so the history is now more accurate.

I was especially taken with this picture;



I would love to see if Marklin would make the model in this livery I think it would look great.

Thanks for the posts

Best Regards

Glenn

Edited by user 19 October 2014 10:47:00(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified