Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 05 June 2014 18:28:24(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Why don´t Märklin give customer a chance to buy an analog locomotiv,so customer can decides by self buying sound decoder like from ESU...??
So in this case,we who hate mfx decoder don´t need become forcement to buy crap ****!
I do understand what Märklin are doing,but it´s not fair.
What do you say yourself?
CS3...H0...
Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 05 June 2014 19:31:04(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,260
Location: Montreal, QC
Anders:

It is very simple.
Modern AC model train locos require a decoder for operation not only in digital but in analog operation as well. The decoder replaces the earlier electronic or electromechanical reverse unit. For these companies to manufacture analog only AC models, the cost would still be the same as what it currently costs to provide a digital decoder.
My only question relates to the decision of the companies to offer basic decoders or decoders that cannot easily be modified versus including a full function decoder that can be user modified. Once they have gone the digital route, they should go "all in" and not offer just a bare bones option.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 06 June 2014 07:48:36(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Mike...
There is customer who use analog(non digital) in theirs layout,so why to only producing digital locomotivs?
What Märklin should do is to offer customer with analog locomotivs to buy and later add sound decoder if like.
CS3...H0...
Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 06 June 2014 08:00:07(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,260
Location: Montreal, QC
Anders:

I tried to explain to you that it is cheaper to provide a basic decoder than to make or procure the electronic reversing unit for analog only. Analog modellers are actually getting a digital model for free.

Mike
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 06 June 2014 08:06:56(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Anders:

I tried to explain to you that it is cheaper to provide a basic decoder than to make or procure the electronic reversing unit for analog only. Analog modellers are actually getting a digital model for free.

Mike


Sorry..but i´m thinking about an 8 pole schnittstelle with reverse unit to change out to decoder.

Edited by user 08 June 2014 10:10:25(UTC)  | Reason: focus on the schnittstelle

CS3...H0...
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 06 June 2014 08:18:39(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,260
Location: Montreal, QC
Anders:

DC models are still offered by many companies in analog and digital versions. Check the catalog for the appropriate numbers.

Mike C
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 06 June 2014 08:20:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,332
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
It is very simple.
Modern AC model train locos require a decoder for operation not only in digital but in analog operation as well. The decoder replaces the earlier electronic or electromechanical reverse unit.
This is simply not true in general.
New locos from New HAG need a decoder. Maybe Märklin C Sine locos also.
Other locos could still be sold with MRU or electronic reversing units.
Those who run their three-rail layouts with DC do not even need a relay.

With a relay locos would start at lower voltages in analogue operation because the decoder needs higher voltages to start working.
An electronic reversing unit might be more expensive than a simple decoder, but would have advantages.

Many customers ask for barebone three-rail locos that come without decoder. These locos would not be ready to run out of the box.

I'd rather buy locos without decoder than with an unwanted decoder.

No company sells barebone three-rail locos. But I can buy two-rail locos and add centre rail sliders (yes, I sometimes too).
I can't buy barebones locos, but if I can choose between a brand with good decoders and a brand with not so good decoders, the latter will often lose my money.

The advantages of digital CDs for music are so overwhelming that analogue vinyl records died decades ago, didn't they?
No, there is demand for vinyl records and record companies continue to make them.

Maybe there's not enough demand for barebone locos. But they would also be an opportunity for service-friendly dealers to provide service.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 06 June 2014 08:52:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,332
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Analog modellers are actually getting a digital model for free.
And some complain that pure analogue models ran better.
Nowadays analogue modellers need a digital controller to configure their locos properly for analogue operation.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#9 Posted : 06 June 2014 09:49:55(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
It is easy to ask but there is always a cost involved on every single thing a company produces even if it is a slightly different version of the same thing and no matter what there is always going to be someone dissatisfied about something regardless of what they do.

Best thing is to buy whatever leaves you more or less satisfied and cope with the shortcomings. While I do agree that technically some things are worse than what they used to be I care much more about the presentation and what can be seen without even using the model. That's the reason I have ventured into getting newer brands that are producing completely different models and with a visual quality that makes me want to have them. Marklin is still my favourite brand for many reasons but I am not a fanatic and I believe during the last couple of years they have taken a path that might lose them some followers. I wouldn't mind if they were cheap but they charge European prices an provide something else.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Iamnotthecrazyone
Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 07 June 2014 12:33:51(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,819
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Goofy,

my sentiments are with you and we are talking about a product which is the backbone of this forum, so what can I say, it has been long standing policy with Märklin to be unique and have a digital system drilled to their locomotives and the only way you get around it, buy an mfx loco sell the decoder and install an ESU decoder or any other brand.


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 07 June 2014 16:35:33(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Goofy,

my sentiments are with you and we are talking about a product which is the backbone of this forum, so what can I say, it has been long standing policy with Märklin to be unique and have a digital system drilled to their locomotives and the only way you get around it, buy an mfx loco sell the decoder and install an ESU decoder or any other brand.


John


OFF TOPIC...
I shall do it and i have first an question:
If i want to wap files sounds,do i just need lok programmer from ESU?
I use only MS2,so i cannot adjust wap files.

Back to Topic:
When Märklin did introduced decoder,did you even thinking about why Märklin didn´t put 8 pole schnittstelle before?
So you needed only to swap reverse unit with 8 pole schnittstelle and replacement an decoder.
That should have done this before.
CS3...H0...
Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 07 June 2014 17:55:18(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,819
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Goofy,

my sentiments are with you and we are talking about a product which is the backbone of this forum, so what can I say, it has been long standing policy with Märklin to be unique and have a digital system drilled to their locomotives and the only way you get around it, buy an mfx loco sell the decoder and install an ESU decoder or any other brand.


John


OFF TOPIC...
I shall do it and i have first an question:
If i want to wap files sounds,do i just need lok programmer from ESU?
I use only MS2,so i cannot adjust wap files.

Back to Topic:
When Märklin did introduced decoder,did you even thinking about why Märklin didn´t put 8 pole schnittstelle before?
So you needed only to swap reverse unit with 8 pole schnittstelle and replacement an decoder.
That should have done this before.


I don't think they ever produced an 8 pole plug, it was very annoying, especially in my case, converting so many locos and re-soldering the wires every time you changed the decoder. since I've installed 8 pin plugs and also the latest adapter plates from ESU
all I have to do is change the decoder, e.g. from lokpilot to sound decoder.

off topic question: Anders I don't know as I do not have a MS 2 but with the lok programmer you have 2 options,

a.) have an existing sound file and you can overwrite this sound file for another one or you buy a sound decoder with a blank sound file and download any sound file available from the ESU sound file section.
Under Version 4 sound files you will find 3 categories: a.) standard sound files, b.) American sound files or c.) specific sound files, these sound files have been added or have been installed into other loco manufacturers such as Brawa and others and these files can also be copied. for instance HAG produced a SBB Ae 4/7 loco and ESU produced the sound file for it.
of course you can filter the sound files to specific countries and see what they have to offer.

some of the sound files for Version 3.5 have not been re-produced under Version 4, one such loco is the Roco ÖBB Rh 1245 and this was still the time when ESU produced sound decoders for Roco, I assume any later version most probably is a Zimo sound decoder and this company is rapidly expanding their sound decoder files but I don't think they are producing a lokprogrammer like ESU but rather you have to program it via bits and bites,.

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 07 June 2014 19:17:39(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,332
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
When Märklin did introduced decoder,did you even thinking about why Märklin didn´t put 8 pole schnittstelle before?
Märklin used the 8-pin NEM socket for many Trix locomotives and a few Märklin locomotives (these Märklin locos had the decoder soldered to a sound module and manual said that decoders could only be swapped at the factory - by cutting off the sound module one can install a new decoder by simply plugging it in).

So while they had the decoder Schnittstelle available for Trix, they still wanted to prevent owners of Märklin locos from swapping decoders.

This changed with the introduction of mfx when all locos came with 21MTC sockets.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#14 Posted : 08 June 2014 08:43:40(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Topic is about analog locomotiv converted to digital by simple way.
Analog locomotiv=without sound decoder
Digital locomotiv=sound decoder
This with 8 or 21 schnittstelle.

You buy an Märklin loco in analog design and later buy an ESU sound decoder ready with sounds.
CS3...H0...
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2021, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.528 seconds.