Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Shamu  
#1 Posted : 01 April 2014 07:36:32(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Afternoon all,

I've been stockpiling parts for the last few years and have all the motor kits and 3 of the bog standard decoders from the 60760
sets along with a couple of V3 ESU's. Today I received 4 x 60945 sets and am going to buy 4 more BUT should I get 4 more of the 21 pin 60945's or get 4 of the 60965's ?

Off on a quick tangent, what gives with the microscopic thread of "Adhesive pad" ? Confused

Going thru my list of loco's to be converted to digital which ones need for space requirements the smaller 8 pin decoders 60965's ?
Obviously the 81 would be a miracle for sound so assume that is a candidate for the standard decoder.

1324-BR 65-Analogue (Fleischmann)
2960-BR 38-Delta
3031-BR 81-Analogue
3085-BR 03-Analogue
3092-S 3/6 Green-Analogue
3102-BR 53 Mallet-Analogue
3318-BR 18.4-Analogue
3518-BR 18.4-5 Star-Analogue (Delta ?)
3489-BR 03-10 Blue-Delta

The following 3 are "will I won't I" do a sound conversion on, most likely will in the long run Confused

3084-BR 50-Digital
37912-01-BR 03-10 Black-Digital
37912-02-BR 03-10 Red-Digital

So boys and girls, given the above list would you get 4 more of the 21 pin 60945's or 4 of the 60965's ?

I know its a extravagance and I could convert them for a fraction of the price but I've got 8 grandkids I'm trying to get interested in trains and these days a train puffing smoke just don't cut it. Sad but true.

Any and all advice welcome.

Edited by user 01 April 2014 11:03:47(UTC)  | Reason: clarity

Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 01 April 2014 13:18:06(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,777
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Shane,

The 60945 kit with the adapter board is intended to fit in the same space as the old mechanical reversing relay would fit in older Marklin locos, so there should be no problem fitting this in any of your locos. More of an issue is the space for the speaker. Tender locos usually have plenty of space for the speaker in the tender, but the 3031 might be harder. If you search the forum you might find that someone has already posted a conversion of their own for a Br 81 which can serve as a guide for you.

Your Fleischmann Br 65 is an unknown quantity for me. You'll need different techniques for this conversion, but this loco is based on a DC model, so the motor itself should need no modification.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but the 60965 is not fitted with an 8 pin connector, as is implied in the title of your thread. These decoders are supplied with bare cable ends for you to solder.

Hope this helps

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline biedmatt  
#3 Posted : 01 April 2014 13:30:49(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I use this everywhere I can. It allows me to replace the decoder easily if I need to, but uses very little space. Sometimes with sound in the small lokos your only option is the decoder with pigtail leads. Not as easy to install and difficult to replace, but it is the smallest package for a decoder.

http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...nen/21mtc-adapter-board/
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#4 Posted : 01 April 2014 22:09:57(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,113
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Shane,

....

I'm not sure if you're aware, but the 60965 is not fitted with an 8 pin connector, as is implied in the title of your thread. These decoders are supplied with bare cable ends for you to solder.

Hope this helps

Ray


Hi Ray,
Yes, supplied as bare wires, but it comes with the 8 pin plug to solder on to, if you want to use it.

The 60965 is a great candidate for anything, it is tiny, small speakers, and so adaptable.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline Shamu  
#5 Posted : 02 April 2014 01:28:13(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Morning All,

Hi Ray

Quote:
Your Fleischmann Br 65 is an unknown quantity for me. You'll need different techniques for this conversion, but this loco is based on a DC model, so the motor itself should need no modification.


Its a ~AC from the factory so half the work is doneBigGrin
John's conversion gave me the idea for it F'mann BR 65

Quote:
I'm not sure if you're aware, but the 60965 is not fitted with an 8 pin connector, as is implied in the title of your thread. These decoders are supplied with bare cable ends for you to solder.

Hope this helps

Ray


Yes true as such but it comes with the 8 pin plug.

Quote:
I use this everywhere I can. It allows me to replace the decoder easily if I need to, but uses very little space. Sometimes with sound in the small lokos your only option is the decoder with pigtail leads. Not as easy to install and difficult to replace, but it is the smallest package for a decoder.

http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...nen/21mtc-adapter-board/


Cheers Matt, I've had a quick squiz and I'll see if I can get one to have a look at although I'm reluctant to use ESU decoders again.

Whoops, should have read all of them first Huh

Quote:
Hi Ray,
Yes, supplied as bare wires, but it comes with the 8 pin plug to solder on to, if you want to use it.


You beat me to it Kimball and your other point is also taken, for the lok's that I won't need more than 2 functions it would be more practical although with virtually NO price difference it sort of skews it towards the '945 unless the '965 is the only option.

Still not sure weather to get 4 more '965's or 4 '945's or a mixture of both Confused

What do Marklin actually use in the loco's from the last 5 to 10 years, hard wired, 8 or 21 pin boards ?
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 02 April 2014 08:22:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,332
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
What do Marklin actually use in the loco's from the last 5 to 10 years, hard wired, 8 or 21 pin boards ?
In 2004 they started using 8-pin sockets with some locos (but the manual indicates that decoders can only be replaced at the factory), later they switched to the new 21MTC board (NEM 660 while Märklin used ESU decoders, mostly NMRA since they make their own decoders).

Many Trix locos came with 8-pin sockets while Märklin locos had hard wired decoders or special PCBs with the decoder.

It seems Märklin prefer hard wired decoders to stop their customers from swapping decoders - they still do that with fx decoders, but mfx decoders are normally plugged in.

I've used 8-pin sockets from ESU with wires at the end, but the 21MTC boards are normally the better choice IMHO. At least they work better for me.

Märklin still make special PCBs for many locos. The standard 21MTC board should fit into old locos that came with mechanical reverse unit.
A hard wired decoder with 11 cables may give you more room for the speaker in small locos.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline kbvrod  
#7 Posted : 07 April 2014 17:36:01(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,
I have a question which involves both decoders and sound decoders( yes I did a search!BigGrin ) I do not know if we should continue it this thread or start anotherConfused

Danke,Dr D
Offline river6109  
#8 Posted : 07 April 2014 18:44:08(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,819
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
you have to ask yourself and some of you may not now this but it has been mentioned before:

a.) Märklin sound decoders have 18 functions, ESU 21 Functions
b.) Märklin has an electronic board which is preset, ESU has adapter plates (21pin) to access Aux 3 and 4

choices:
Märklin CS 2 with ESU decoders and Lokprogrammer or ESU decoders, Lokprogammer and ECoS

choices: to use conversions sets with or without decoders

Märklin mfx or ESU V4M4 decoders

John


https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by river6109
Offline kbvrod  
#9 Posted : 07 April 2014 19:17:54(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi John,all,
I got this message from the Yahoo! Roco list:

Quote:
Does anyone know where I will find a cross reference of what decoder to use in each Roco engine that has a plug in it?

I just purchased a Roco 72523 Electric locomotive Dm3, brown, SJ. The info on the dealers site says a 8 pin NEM 652 plug. The instructions that came with the loco says a 16 pin plug.


Which got me thinking: are more wires need for functions and are more need for sound functions? I am talking about damfloks here.I have a TRIX BR 94.5 (22160) which has a 21 pin plug.Now would one need 21 pins?How many functions would you need on dampflok?
This my list and please correct:

2 wires to the motor
3 wires to the headlights,(common ground),perhaps 1 more for have them both on at the same time,as the vorbild can(?)
2 wires for pick-up + return.
Again no sound,no smoke lok.

I see the 21 as being used for more functions.

Thanks for your help.

D
Offline Janne75  
#10 Posted : 07 April 2014 20:26:07(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,538
Location: Finland
Hi,

Today I digitalised my 3084 DB BR 050 082-7 to digital. I took away reversing unit and the old motor that had already ball bearings. I took one of my spare part box 5-pole Märklin motors with permanent magnet. I modified also this motor shield to have ball bearing. There is now Märklin mSD 60945 steam loco sound decoder adapter board and loudspeaker in the cabin tender. I got a full 60945 set except the sound decoder itself for free, so I put normal mfx decoder without sounds to the 21-pin adapter board now first.

It runs very good with acceleration and breaking delay. As there was already a smoke unit installed from the factory it is now on when I put lights on. It works great too! RollEyes I just did an easy conversion first and will continue in the future by having flickering free front lights and maybe put a light inside of the tender too. Separate lights and smoke unit control also then. I will try to get somewhere a mSD 21-pin 60945 sound decoder to replace the current non sound decoder as otherwise this 3084 is ready for full sounds.

It was nice to get a new member on my digital layout from this 3084 cabin tender steam locomotive. Now I like it even more Love . I just can't wait to get full sounds from it in the future.

I'm sorry if this above is slightly off topic, but I just saw your loco list that contained 3084 and decoder choice 60945 mSD so I wanted to write my experience from today.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 07 April 2014 21:03:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,332
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Which got me thinking: are more wires need for functions and are more need for sound functions?
Three wires are enough for white headlights (including double A). Five for white and red lights and independent control. Two more for long-distance headlights (only one with some bird-seed on the loco PCB).

For a steamer: three for lights, one for smoke.

With 6-pin NEM 651 you get 2 functions.
With 8-pin NEM 652 you get 3 functions.
With 21-pin NEM 660 (21MTC) you get 6 functions (6 pins reserved for Sinus motors).
With 21-pin NEM 658 (PluX22) you get 9 functions. Only 4 with PluX16. Also 4 with PluX12. Only 2 with PluX8.

Some Märklin locos use SUSI (2 pins on the decoder) to get more functions. ESU go a similar way with their locos.

Sound requires only 2 pins for the speaker - even if there are 20 sound functions.

A growing number of physical function outputs, a growing number of sound effects - sooner or later it'll be time for Märklin to allow more than 16 functions per loco with the CS2.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline kbvrod  
#12 Posted : 07 April 2014 22:21:21(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Tom,all,
Thanks!ThumpUp

>For a steamer: three for lights, one for smoke.<

Yes,the TRIX can be fitted for smoke. I am wondering about doing the headlights so both can be on at the same timeThen there is cab lighting,firebox lighting.BigGrin Then of course remote uncoupling.

>With 6-pin NEM 651 you get 2 functions.
With 8-pin NEM 652 you get 3 functions.
With 21-pin NEM 660 (21MTC) you get 6 functions (6 pins reserved for Sinus motors).
With 21-pin NEM 658 (PluX22) you get 9 functions. Only 4 with PluX16. Also 4 with PluX12. Only 2 with PluX8.<

Just to be clear I was talking about 2-rail DCC loks,...

>Sound requires only 2 pins for the speaker - even if there are 20 sound functions.<

Even the 1st generation of LokSound was able to so this.

>A growing number of physical function outputs, a growing number of sound effects - sooner or later it'll be time for Märklin to allow more than 16 functions per loco with the CS2.<

Well for 2-rail I use the NCE PowerCab. I do have a MS for any 3-rail testing.

Dr Dirt



Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 07 April 2014 23:08:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,332
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Just to be clear I was talking about 2-rail DCC loks,...
Two-rail, three-rail - what's the difference? Same controllers, same decoders can be used for both systems.
I have a growing number of DCC locos - most of them three-rail however. I have NEM 651, 652, 658, 660, ...

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline kbvrod  
#14 Posted : 07 April 2014 23:23:52(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Just to be clear I was talking about 2-rail DCC loks,...
Two-rail, three-rail - what's the difference? Same controllers, same decoders can be used for both systems.
I have a growing number of DCC locos - most of them three-rail however. I have NEM 651, 652, 658, 660, ...


Hi Tom,all,
I don't have a 3-rail system set up for that.I can slap together both a 2-rail track(Kato) and a 3-rail track-(M)(on the floor,or on the Busch rolling stand on the work bench) and do it that way and since I mostly test after weathering, I can test them.My customers are not asking me to do any switch.They want the M to be MM/mfx and their DCC to be DCC BigGrin

Dirt

Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 07 April 2014 23:42:00(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,819
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
It doesn't matter which type of loco you've got it depends how many functions you are activating, a sound decoder has 2 wires for the speaker and in steam locos it depends whether the sound decoder is in the loco itself or the tender or the speaker has to go either into the loco or tender requiring 2 wires.

some of my sound decoder configurations are: FO: lights and steam generator, F1: telex coupler, F2: telex coupler, F3: gear light, F 4: fire box light
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline kbvrod  
#16 Posted : 08 April 2014 00:49:51(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
It doesn't matter which type of loco you've got it depends how many functions you are activating, a sound decoder has 2 wires for the speaker and in steam locos it depends whether the sound decoder is in the loco itself or the tender or the speaker has to go either into the loco or tender requiring 2 wires.

some of my sound decoder configurations are: FO: lights and steam generator, F1: telex coupler, F2: telex coupler, F3: gear light, F 4: fire box light


Never mind!RollEyes

Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2021, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.745 seconds.