Thanks Tom,

So I will give it a very short maintenance break every day around 6 PM. I will use the same grease for lubrication as I use with my RC cars gears.

I just calculated that it will run without breaks around 835,7 meters per hour, so 20057 meters in 24 hour. If I will do the maintenance lubrication work fast in around 4 minutes it will still go 20000 meters = 20 km in 24 hours. So total in 7 days is then 140 km! If this little steamer will survive this "trip" which is as long as the distance for me to go to my workplace in Helsinki and back home, it will get a special place in my collection no matter in which condition it is then... 7 days is 168 hours, so then it is used total around 170 hours as it was running before for around two hours.

Has Märklin ever done public long endurance tests to their locomotives? I have only seen some pulling tests done with German Crocodiles.

Cheers,
Janne

A Z gauge loco once ran 1219 hours (720 km) without maintenance, hauling a train. That was 1978, so it was a three-pole motor "Made in Germany".

It's my experience that these can motors run fine with Märklin fx decoders or ESU decoders (but not really good with Märklin mfx decoders).

No problem with those hobby locos that don't have sound. But I'm not satisfied with the hobby locos that have mfx sound. Same for premium models with mfx and sound and new standard motor.

Are you sure?.....I always thought that the record in Z gauge of 12xx hours was about the "new" five poles motor for miniclub

Hi,

Very impressive record anyway. 720 km in 1219 hours is 590,6 meters every hour, around 14,18 km every 24 hours. So it took around 50,8 days and without maintenance and with Z gauge 1:220! So it didn't run as fast as my BR 81 is running now, but in it's scale 1:220 vs. our H0 1:87 scale much faster.

Regards,
Janne

The Loxx layout at Berlin, Germany, once made a longevity test with five H0 models from the V 160 family. The results of the test have vanished from their site, so I have to rely on information available on the net.
The rules were simple: they took two locos from each brand, one made the test and the other was donor for spare parts.

Piko was out on 17.11.05 after 537 km and 337 hours
Roco was out on 7.4.06 after 1597 km and 1058 hours
Brawa was out on 24.4.06 after 2254 km and 1474 hours
Source: http://www.drehscheibe-f...d.php?10,2952070,2952925

So Piko made 337 hours with two motors - so about 150 hours per motor like the Hornby manual states for Hornby locos.

The Märklin loco ran 1,656 hours.
http://www.fleischmann-h...s/nieuws-2006/200617.htm

It seems the Fleischmann loco was stopped after 1,936 hours.
Source: http://www.forum.hag-inf...p;postID=78007#post78007

I don't know whether the Märklin loco had a three-pole AC/DC motor or a five-pole DC motor.
Results may be quite different with e.g. a new Märklin V 100 (37000) or a BR 94.5. But some Fleischmann locos also have "maintenance free" can motors.

I think you might have seen the 2nd show on the model trains. The first attempt had a number of trains fail (including James' Flying Scotsman), and they failed to complete the distance. There was a 2nd show made in which they had a 2nd, more successful attempt.

A useful site if you want to understand some of the jargon going on here, DCC-based.
An article on motors and terms used

LINK Now gone...

Edited by user 19 April 2014 01:50:02(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Let´s hope Marklin choise coreless or and 5 pole skewed motor!!
Kato is an well famous company who produce very good motor.
I did had once an Kato american HO model and with flyweels.
You can beat that this locomotiv did run smoothe full!!

What I have deduced from the above articles is that 5 pole is not necessarily better than 3 pole, and a good 3 pole motor is better than a bad 5 pole motor, although generally the better motors tend to be 5 pole. Also, in small motors, 3 pole gives more torque than 5 pole. A 3 pole skew wound motor has almost as little cogging and more torque than a 5 pole straight wound motor.

Right so. But if five-pole is strong enough to get the wheels slipping then three-pole and five-pole will give the same tractive effort, but five-pole probably runs smoother.

When Märklin introduced the five-pole locos 35xx, they advertised that the new motors had higher torque and more torque at the same voltages than the older three-pole motors.

Torque depends on many factors.

Märklin made the move from five-pole skew wound motor to three-pole straight wound motor. More torque, much more cogging, therefore these new motors are a bigger challenge for the load regulation of the decoder.

And that's one of the problems of the new locos: the load regulation of the decoder is not on the level with other decoders IMHO.

Another "problem" is the fear that the new motors will last only 150 through 200 hours.

I agree.
Even with the DCM standard motor, I always find that ESU-made M4 decoders perform better compared to in-house MFX.


Now that's the big question mark....

In the good old days, we know that the third party manufacturers of bell-shaped armatures for Marklin models are quite reputable.....(Maxxon, Faulhaber, to name a few),
even if they're famously quite pricey...

The current generation of Marklin motors (from the photos I've seen), which look and feel "el-cheapo", is of unknown origin... Marklin won't tell...
..... High-efficiency Propulsion, they say......

This actually made it safe to assume that they are probably bought in large bulk from any unknown Chinese manufacturer in Alibaba.com (as posted above).

Is opting to use a cheap motor really compensate for the benefits of the better/more expensive motors?

I prefer to have models with a more expensive motor that comes with guaranteed quality, rather than brand-unknown el-cheapos...
AND honestly, I thought Marklin had always pride themselves in the quality of their motors???
Opting to go down this route does't really sit well in my mind.

The other problem:
Why go for new models with downgraded motor, when there's a vast market of second hand models / old stock with markedly better quality motor, that have good running qualities, and well-known reliability?

We are fully informed about them...
As far as I know, I haven't seen a lot of enquiries about BR18.1 (one of the first Marklins w/ bell-shaped motor) ever require a replacement motor...

Edited by user 30 December 2013 09:19:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi!

37902 (BR 290) is the SDS.

The Trix Re 481 22631 has motor 127093 - a five-pole motor with skewed armature, spare part cost € 19.95.

Other can motors:
Lok;BR;Motor;Motor (new);Price (2013)
37405;139;E154000;;59,50
37061;E 17;E176308;E181219;15,00
36420;Ludmilla;E408905;;29,50
36240;BR 24;129454;E190778;29,50
37740;BR 216 (Lollo);E162120;;29,50
37309;Rh. 1012;120939;;34,95; 5-pole motor with skewed armature
37906;V 90;E230562;;180,00
22631;Re 481;127093;;19,95; 5-pole motor with skewed armature
22604;BR 120;120939;;34,95; 5-pole motor with skewed armature
37581;ET 91;E156328;;45,00
37165;BR 94.5;E169872;E235322;29,50
39340;BR 182;E192730;;29,50
39860;BR 189;E192730;;29,50
37778;BR 403/404;E169227;;19,50
37566;Ce 6/8 II;E178182;;29,50

I don't know which of these are 3-pole motors - and I don't care as long as a loco runs smooth.
Frightening how many different numbers there are.
E 17, 24, and 94.5 have two numbers: the old number from the printed manual and the new number from the database (whatever that may mean - could mean the spare parts have a different quality than the motors that were shipped with the locos).

Hi all,

Thanks Tom and Brandon for further information. I think that there are not as many different can motors. There is no idea to have a different motor in each locomotive model. I think there are many different ones, but also that many models share the same type of motor regardless of their Märklin motor part numbers.

A good example is from today. I asked from my Finnish dealer if there is still a new motor available from Märklin to my Kittel 3425 as the old motor is damaged. There was no motor anymore available for 3425 Kittel's spare parts list motor number 68 9360. But there is a motor for 37256 Kittel motor part number 145536. So I will order it and it costs 29,50 euro. As I got my Kittel for free it's nice and cheap Delta loco for that 29,50 euro with perfect box and all papers included. I really hope that it's Delta decoder is not partially damaged also as then it becomes more expensive if I ever get that special decoder. It changes lights direction and also interior lights lit when they get voltage. Kittel won't run, but I have already tested it's miniature size can motor separately with a transformer (full voltage) and it's damaged. It can spin very slowly by helping it first by fingers. I already cleaned it's motor with electronic cleaner spray and put a tiny drop of oil, but it did not help. I opened the motor and one brush was in two pieces! Maybe I can just replace the possibly damaged Delta decoder with 37256 Digital decoder = a good idea! First new motor and test if Delta decoder is still ok.

I want to write a short information about the 29539 BR 81 endurance test. Today I cleaned it's wheels and lubricated the worm drive. No need to oil the axles. Total running time now around 124 hours since this test began. Next short maintenance break (oiling/lubricating/greasing/cleaning) at Saturday morning around 10 AM Finnish time after around 160 hours total running time. After it without any further maintenance to that 200 hours. Actually I have to end this test at approximately 196 hours total running time at Sunday 12 PM Finnish time. I can then run the rest of this test at Monday as I will not end the test at 4 AM when I'm sleeping. It was already used for some hours before this test started, but I want to run 200 hours test to be sure.

So far everything is ok and BR 81 functions like when it was new. No problems and no odd sounds or smells, nothing .

Cheers,
Janne

Matt,

See my posting above. I'm 100 % sure Märklin don't have a different can motor for each Märklin loco. There must be different versions as physical needs are different, but many locos must have the very same motor types regardless of their Märklin motor part numbers. And we will soon see if a can motor in my BR 81 will last at least for 200 hours. It's a quite long time. For me it is over normal locos total running time for the rest of my life .

Cheers,
Janne

The different types of motor are probably much fewer: axle sticking out either on one side or on both sides. But still I think there are at least three current motor types (different sizes).
But then many variations will be created by adding smaller or larger flywheels, worm drives or pockets for cardan shafts. These variations may still be a problem for a user who needs a replacement motor.

The new plastic Kittel 37256 is a different prototype class from the old metal Kittel 3425. They may share the same motor size - but maybe they don't.

Hi Tom,all,
Sorry,that was at least a decade ago,... the BR 55 5555 was the road number. No sound and both had the piano decoder,... the -other- BR 55 (37XXX series) had the flywheel,....it was the brake/acceleration movement that made the difference,.....


Dirt

Thanks Tom,

I have to double check this one. But if 37256 has also the same small can motor it should be ok. There is then still some possible differencies if the motor itself is the same. The gear in motor output axle may be different or flywheel weight could be different. I didn't know that 37256 Kittel is a plastic body model. So are the older Delta versions only heavier metal body ones?

Janne

Off topic: bad news with respect to Kittel: the new type has one worm-drive directly at the motor, the other worm-drive is powered with a cardan shaft.
The old Kittel has a cog-wheel at the motor that drives a long axle with two worm-drives at the ends.

I was only looking at the explosion diagrams.

Back to topic: bad sign if you cannot replace the motor of a railcar from the 2002/2003 catalogue. That's only 11 years.

I posted 2 Pictures of the 37455 inside in the 37455 thread:

https://www.marklin-user...455-BR45.aspx#post437115

Cheers

Even cheap 3 pole motors does have 5 years warranty with the locomotivs.
Because Marklin says..."5 years warranty".

Like BR45 has 3 pole motor.
I didn´t wrote MHI articles,since other locomotivs have 3 pole motor too.
So if Marklin support good quality in the MHI models,so does must other locomotivs with 3 pole motor have same good quality since it´s Marklin produce it.

Let´s see results later when i did used them.
Somebody other can do same.
And yes Tom...there is difference type of motor.
But the problem is Marklins attitude by present difference warranty.
3 pole or 5 pole motor...the question is if Marklin decides to present 2 or 5 years warranty.
Even with Faulhaber motor too.
It smells shit from factory Marklin sometimes...

Insider items are MHI items.

Wrong. There are MHI articles for everybody and there are MHI items for club members.
Not all MHI articles are meant to be bought by Outsiders (but eBay teaches us that theory is grey - Outsiders can also buy Insider MHI models).