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Offline jasondixon  
#1 Posted : 28 November 2013 12:02:24(UTC)
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jasondixon

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/01/2011(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Hampshire, UK
Hi all,

I have some questions on updating sounds in digital locos.

Firstly, are the factory sounds pre-installed in locos just standard sounds? For instance, I have the BR601 Mediolanum set, and I see there is a specific sound file available on the Marklin site. Will the loco have this or a standard diesel sound file installed?

Secondly, the list of Marklin loco specific sounds is a little limited. Are there other sites (that you'd recommend) for other sound files, and is it the same process to upload them to the locos, and will they work like genuine Marklin sound files in terms of uploading, etc?

Sorry to ask, but I'm totally new to this whole sound thing, but I'm loving it and keen to get every loco sounding absolutely genuine.
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 28 November 2013 12:19:30(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,462
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: jasondixon Go to Quoted Post
Firstly, are the factory sounds pre-installed in locos just standard sounds?
Märklin will install the best sound they have at the time.
And the sound is fixed and cannot be replaced by the customer (unless you also replace the decoder).
Sometimes locos ship with incorrect sounds while a specific or better sound project will be made at a later time.

Originally Posted by: jasondixon Go to Quoted Post
Secondly, the list of Marklin loco specific sounds is a little limited. Are there other sites (that you'd recommend) for other sound files, and is it the same process to upload them to the locos, and will they work like genuine Marklin sound files in terms of uploading, etc?
You can create own sound projects with the Märklin Decoder Tool (mDT), but I haven't seen any shared projects yet.

IMHO ESU decoders do a better job with respect to modifying the sounds when speeding up or slowing down.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jasondixon  
#3 Posted : 28 November 2013 15:44:33(UTC)
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jasondixon

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/01/2011(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: jasondixon Go to Quoted Post
Firstly, are the factory sounds pre-installed in locos just standard sounds?
Märklin will install the best sound they have at the time.
And the sound is fixed and cannot be replaced by the customer (unless you also replace the decoder).
Sometimes locos ship with incorrect sounds while a specific or better sound project will be made at a later time.

Originally Posted by: jasondixon Go to Quoted Post
Secondly, the list of Marklin loco specific sounds is a little limited. Are there other sites (that you'd recommend) for other sound files, and is it the same process to upload them to the locos, and will they work like genuine Marklin sound files in terms of uploading, etc?
You can create own sound projects with the Märklin Decoder Tool (mDT), but I haven't seen any shared projects yet.

IMHO ESU decoders do a better job with respect to modifying the sounds when speeding up or slowing down.






I've had a look at the ESU decoders. They definitely look like a good option. I see they do the Loksound M4 version that is designed with Marklin in mind. Having looked at the instruction manuals available for Loksound decoders, it mentions that they can't be connected directly to C-Sine motors. Can anybody tell me how you get around this, and does the M4 version of the decoder deal with this? I've only just started to get my head round installing Marklin decoders, and this just seems to add in some more complexity, especially for the electrically challenged like myself
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Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 28 November 2013 15:51:03(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,876
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Jason,

have a look at the website:

http://www.esu.eu/en/start/

there are many sounds and it will take you while to browse through them all. there are some benefits with ESU sound decoders but if you decide this is your choice, the Märklin decoder would have to be sold off.

the problem is every different producer of sound decoders have their own programming tools and with Märklin sound decoders you may not be able to change it.

Zimo also produces sound decoders and they are fitted mostly into Roco locos with sound.

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 28 November 2013 18:40:32(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,462
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jasondixon Go to Quoted Post
Having looked at the instruction manuals available for Loksound decoders, it mentions that they can't be connected directly to C-Sine motors.
Märklin mSD and mLD are just the same: they cannot be connected directly to C-Sine motors.

If a loco has an mfx decoder, then it also has the driver PCB that goes between decoder and motor.

Do you already have locos you want to convert or are you just asking general questions?
Most current Märklin locos use 21MTC sockets for decoders. But there are different "flavours" of these sockets and not all decoders can be used with all sockets.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline jasondixon  
#6 Posted : 29 November 2013 10:38:57(UTC)
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jasondixon

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/01/2011(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jasondixon Go to Quoted Post
Having looked at the instruction manuals available for Loksound decoders, it mentions that they can't be connected directly to C-Sine motors.
Märklin mSD and mLD are just the same: they cannot be connected directly to C-Sine motors.

If a loco has an mfx decoder, then it also has the driver PCB that goes between decoder and motor.

Do you already have locos you want to convert or are you just asking general questions?
Most current Märklin locos use 21MTC sockets for decoders. But there are different "flavours" of these sockets and not all decoders can be used with all sockets.



I have a number of locos, some analogue and some early digital (i.e. 6080 decoders) that I want to convert. I know some of them will require a motor change too. I'm just trying to get an understanding of the whole conversion thing. I've completed one conversion of a 3442 loco with a 60941 motor kit and 60947 MFX decoder - took a couple of attempts but got there in the end, and I'm now looking to do the rest over the next few months. Just seems like a bit of a minefield to a novice. I really like the fact that ESU do such a wide range of sounds (and they seem to have specific sounds for many of the locos I'm looking to convert), but just want to understand what's really involved if I go down that route. I'm also wondering if you can still assign icons, etc, to ESU converted locos through the CS2.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 29 November 2013 17:19:31(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,462
Location: DE-NW
The motors 60941/3/4 work equally well with Märklin or ESU decoders.
You cannot upload new sounds to an ESU decoder with a CS2, but you can order them with many pre-installed sounds.
Programming is the same, no matter if the mfx decoder is from Märklin or ESU (ESU call mfx "m4" for legal reasons or whatever).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline jasondixon  
#8 Posted : 01 December 2013 23:21:11(UTC)
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jasondixon

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/01/2011(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The motors 60941/3/4 work equally well with Märklin or ESU decoders.
You cannot upload new sounds to an ESU decoder with a CS2, but you can order them with many pre-installed sounds.


That's interesting - I've just got a brand new ESU Loksound v4 M4 decoder on ebay for a great price, but from what you've said I won't be able to upload my desired sounds form the CS2.
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Offline biedmatt  
#9 Posted : 02 December 2013 00:59:18(UTC)
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biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
If you are buying the decoder from an ESU dealer, they can probably install the sound file you need. You will find them here: http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...ads/sounds/generation-4/
If not, then you will need to use a LokProgrammer to load the sound files. If you plan on updating the decoders in a lot of lokos and you're thinking ESU, then buy the LokProgrammer. You will be glad you did.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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thanks 2 users liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline biedmatt  
#10 Posted : 02 December 2013 14:09:48(UTC)
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biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Sinus drive and ESU decoders: If you have a loko with the 21 pin decoder and sinus drive, then you should be able to convert to the ESU decoder. You will need to 1) configure aux 4 on continuously. Sometimes it is a different aux output though that powers the sinus drive. Triebwagens like 39080 have the drive on aux 2 and aux 3 and 4 were for the changeover relay that selects the correct (front) slider. Trial and error will get you to the right place. It will not run until you get the sinus drive powered. 2) enable SUSI control on the decoder. On some, this is the data the drive uses to decide speed and direction. Having it on when not required is not a problem. 3) Enable forward and reverse speed bias. I set them to 128 which will not have any affect on the speed. If you do not do this, the loko may never reach max speed 4) install a 470uF 25V capacitor on the decoder. The manuals for LokSound and LokPilot show where to solder the cap. If you do not do this, the loko may not reach max speed, or may reach max then go into over current protection and the lights will go out and the loko will coast down until it resets. Then it will repeat the sequence. I have converted several sinus drive lokos with the ESU decoders. Only the 37772 and 37773 would not work. Even with the cap, they would go into over current protection. It is not difficult, just takes some time. The improvement in reliability and sound are worth it. Like I said above, if you are doing a lot of lokos, the LokProgrammer is worth the investment. It provides simple graphical screens and text screens for setting up the decoder. None of that "Well, I want bit one set here and bit four set here and bit seven set here, so after I add up the values, I need to enter X in CV Y".

I have not figured out how to convert the early sinus drive lokos with the decoder and drive incorporated into one circuit board. Someone made an interface that replaced the board and allowed use of the 21 pin decoders, but they appear to be history now.

Edited by user 02 December 2013 17:35:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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