Joined: 15/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Athens, Greece
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Hi all,
I'm upgrading to digital the following analog locos:
BR V60 (3065 marklin item)
BR V100 (3072 marklin item)
I see that LokSound V4 decoders have some differences. The following Loksound decoder are available for BR V100 :
- ESU54432 LokSound V4.0 Diesel V 100 / BR 212, Spurweite 0,H0
- ESU64432 LokSound V4.0 M4 Diesel "V 100 / BR 212" , NEM652 8-pin, Spurweite 0, H0
I assume that M4 is just the latest version of LokSound V4. Is my understanding correct?
thanks
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 Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 124 Location: Bergamo - italy
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M4 stands for mfx: ESU can't use the word "mfx" which is patented by Maerklin
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Joined: 15/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Athens, Greece
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Originally Posted by: eroncelli  M4 stands for mfx: ESU can't use the word "mfx" which is patented by Maerklin Thanks! So ESU64432 is suitable for the digital conversion of my Maerklin V100 loco. What is the "NEM652 8-pin" ? |
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 Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,878 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Berdos,
I assume you are using a M♪2rklin Command station and not an ECoS.
With an ECoS and the V4 soundedocoders/lokpilot you can use RailComPlus which has a wider range of options than the mfx protocol.
the 3072 is not in the conversion summary of Märklin locos anless you do some modification (minimal) or you use the cureent 3 pole armature with a permanent magent.
To fit a sound decoder into these locos will be a task as an ordinary HO loksounddecoder, I guess will be to big so you would have to look at a micro loksound decoder and the same goes for the speaker, you will have more room in the 3072 than the 3065.
I would say you'll be better of buiying a sound decoder (21pin) with an adapterplate ESU 51968 which does fit inot the spot where your reversing unit was. and this applies for both locos, than you have the find room for the speaker.
Loksound V4 decoder has quite a few new gadgets added.
regards.,
John
P.S.
there are several options and benfits when you [purchase an ECoS and a lokprogrammer.
a.) you can buy a generic sound decoder with a 21 pin connection
b.) you can download a soundfile from ESU and upload it into your sound decoder
c.)you can utilize 21 functions instead of 15.
d.) You can have RailComPlus which recognizes your decoder automatically and keeps them stored in your ECoS.
e.) you can update your decoder
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Joined: 15/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Athens, Greece
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Originally Posted by: river6109 Berdos,
I assume you are using a M♪2rklin Command station and not an ECoS.
I have the traditional 6021 Control Unit but I plan to upgrade since with 6021 only 4 functions are available... Also, I'll replace the 3pole with the Märklin 60943 High-Efficiency Motor Conversion Set. |
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 Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France
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Quote:
I have the traditional 6021 Control Unit but I plan to upgrade since with 6021 only 4 functions are available...
Also, I'll replace the 3pole with the Märklin 60943 High-Efficiency Motor Conversion Set.
Hello, -60943 is for 3065 only; -Use 60944 for 3072, but beware, as John said I'm not sure 60944 kit will fit in 3072 without some modifications...FYI I've converted last week a 3053 which is mentionned in the 60944 booklet - so expecting things will go easily-, but when trying to insert the magnet, a wheel was blocking the insertion. I had to remove a wheel, set the new kit, then reset the wheel using specialized tools (happily I had them, but if you don't you're in trouble !). Do a check before unmounting the motor. If the magnet (or the cover plate) doesn't fit, use a magnet from ESU and keep the 3 pole original rotor and cover plate. I've converted successfully my 3072 and 3147 using ESU magnet and original 3 pole rotor with a associated LPV4 (no sound). Cheers Fabrice
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Joined: 15/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Athens, Greece
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Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Quote:
I have the traditional 6021 Control Unit but I plan to upgrade since with 6021 only 4 functions are available...
Also, I'll replace the 3pole with the Märklin 60943 High-Efficiency Motor Conversion Set.
Hello, -60943 is for 3065 only; Cheers Fabrice Merci Fabrice! For the time being I'll digitize the V60 (3065), so I'll order only the 60943 conversion set. Regarding the Loksound decoder I'm still not sure which fits best in my V60. |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: berdos I have the traditional 6021 Control Unit but I plan to upgrade since with 6021 only 4 functions are available... With ESU LokSound decoders you can reach 9 or 17 functions, with mfx decoders 9 or 16 functions. Decoders have sockets nowadays. NEM 652 is one standard (8 pins), 21MTC is another (21 pins). NEM 652 does not include pins for the speaker. It depends on your taste whether you take the M4 (i.e. mfx) decoder or the normal LokSound decoder. Both will work with the MM protocol of your 6021. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 801
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Originally Posted by: berdos ...
.. since with 6021 only 4 functions are available...
With the 6021 and mfx or loksound decoders, you can get f5 to f8 functions with the "second address".
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Joined: 15/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Athens, Greece
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Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: berdos I have the traditional 6021 Control Unit but I plan to upgrade since with 6021 only 4 functions are available... With ESU LokSound decoders you can reach 9 or 17 functions, with mfx decoders 9 or 16 functions. NEM 652 does not include pins for the speaker. Thanks. Are you sure about this? I read in ESU site that "...LokSound V4.0 decoders are offered with all established plugs..." |
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,878 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Berdos,
with your 6021 you can access 8 sound functions F1-F8 by activating the 2nd Märklin address on yuour sounddecoder.having very little room in these locos I would recommend the 21 pin, you have less wires to deal with
John
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Joined: 15/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Athens, Greece
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Originally Posted by: river6109 Berdos,
with your 6021 you can access 8 sound functions F1-F8 by activating the 2nd Märklin address on yuour sounddecoder.having very little room in these locos I would recommend the 21 pin, you have less wires to deal with
John
This is the wireless decoder right? Is this compliant with all Marklin mobile controllers? |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
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We are mixing different issues here.
1. ESU make different decoders - some have mfx (LokSound V4.0 M4) and some don't (LokSound V4.0).
2. Both these decoders are made with many different plugs/sockets (of interest are mainly NEM 652 and 21MTC).
3. Both decoder types are available in the NEM 652 version with many pre-installed sounds under individual ref. numbers.
4. For decoders with 21MTC socket, anybody with a LokProgrammer can upload any sound.
5. Any Märklin/Trix Mobile or Central Station can operate any of these decoders. The CU 6021 can also control them.
So if you want the "wireless" 21MTC socket, find a friend or a friendly dealer who will upload the V 100 sound to the decoder. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
 2 users liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,878 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Berdos,
Unless you are mechanical minded, to install a sound decoder into these locos + a speaker is not an easy task, it can be done but you have to know what you're doing and have to understand the conseuqences of qwuality what type of dsound decoder and speaker you install.
Although they have improved the sound channel and the type of speaker they are still way off of producing a convincing sound.
the smaller the speaker the less reproduction of the actual sound you get.
So unless you are aware of the pitfalls of sound decoders + the combination of speakers you may not be as happy when finished with the outcome.
P.S.
To my surprise I've installed an ESU sound decoder into an American steam loco, similar to the Big Boy, the sound is actually from a Big Boy. I've found a buyer in Germany but he said, he doesn't need the sound decoder he uses American sound decoders for these locos they are much cripser in the reporduction of the sound.
It could be ESU is the leading sound decoder producer in Germany or Europe, although Zimo and others are taken on the task (Zimo's decoders in all Roco locos) we may not getting our value for money but at the moment we don't have another choice, well the other choice is not installing sound decoders.
John |
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1 user liked this useful post by river6109
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 Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
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Hi Tom, Fully agree with your contribution and clarification of the matters. Just one tiny question: is there a particular reason you mention that decoders with a 21MTC socket can be programmed with a LokProgrammer? This, in my experience, is possible with all ESU LokSound decoders, regardless of the type of plug/socket and whether it is an M4 (a.k.a. Mfx) version or not. Regarding programming of sound in ESU decoders; it might be worthwhile to consider using an ESU "Prüfstand" (link), rather than programming the decoder while it is installed in a loco. The main reason for this is the possibility of interference between the decoder in programming mode and the other electronics in a loco. Here, the available interface (or plug/socket) does make a difference, as the locos equipped with a 21MTC interface are more often equipped with such additional electronics (for instance C-sine engine controllers). Perhaps all this goes a little too much into detail for now, but it might be useful to have all information regarding these sounddecoders in one thread for future reference...  Cheers, Originally Posted by: H0 We are mixing different issues here.
1. ESU make different decoders - some have mfx (LokSound V4.0 M4) and some don't (LokSound V4.0).
2. Both these decoders are made with many different plugs/sockets (of interest are mainly NEM 652 and 21MTC).
3. Both decoder types are available in the NEM 652 version with many pre-installed sounds under individual ref. numbers.
4. For decoders with 21MTC socket, anybody with a LokProgrammer can upload any sound.
5. Any Märklin/Trix Mobile or Central Station can operate any of these decoders. The CU 6021 can also control them.
So if you want the "wireless" 21MTC socket, find a friend or a friendly dealer who will upload the V 100 sound to the decoder. |
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E. |
1 user liked this useful post by Sander van Wijk
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: Sander van Wijk is there a particular reason you mention that decoders with a 21MTC socket can be programmed with a LokProgrammer? All LokSound decoders sold separately allow uploading new sounds. My point was: those with 8-pin plug can be ordered with the desired sound pre-installed from the factory. For other decoder sockets, the desired sound must be installed using the LokProgrammer. Those who don't have access to a LokProgrammer will need help from a friend or friendly dealer. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,878 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Hi everyone,
The 8 pin plug will be eliminated in the future, this is my opinion. using an adapterplate gives you the choice of 4 Aux functions with a 21 pin decoder.
the same goes for a sound decoder.
Eventually modelers will find which system suits them best and mixing decoders and command station from diffrent producers will decrease as time will tell.
there are some discrepancies between manufacturers, e.g. ESU sound decoders have 21 functions available against Märklin 15, programming an ESU decoder with a lokprogrammer is much easier and time will tell which sound decoder will have a better sound reproduction.
ESU has also bought out an adapterplate for 6 Aux functions but at a cost and one would ask why not buy a Zimo decoder with the same amount of Aux functions at a lesser price.
the question is, will ESU be able to keep the gap which was created by Märklin in the first place and is this gap narrowing since Märklin has announced its own off the shelf sound decoders and therefore limiting or reducing the market share sofar ESU is concerend.
Another thing I'm not happy with, some downloaded ESU sound project are far from exceptable sofar the volume is concerned comparing them with pre installed sound decoders, especially with steam locos with the standard loudspeaker.
John
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Joined: 15/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Athens, Greece
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Hi,
finally I have digitized the old BR V60 (3065 marklin item) with a LokPilot 4. I didn't change the 3pole motor with a new 5pole, just replace the old magnet with an ESU magnet. Loco's motion is good but not very smooth. Do I have to set specific CV values on my LokPilot decoder for my 3pole motor in order to improve driving characteristics?
thanks all!
Nikos |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: berdos Do I have to set specific CV values on my LokPilot decoder for my 3pole motor in order to improve driving characteristics? The ESU decoder manual suggests values for the three Märklin motor types converted with ESU magnets - and I would try these values. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
1 user liked this useful post by H0
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 Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,343 Location: Southwest Ohio
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Somehow I missed this thread. I just a week ago finished a conversion on a 3065. It fits my need perfectly. Era 3 and the good Telex couplers.    I started with the 8 pin decoder. I usually use a 21 pin decoder and the adapter board so a damaged decoder can be easily replaced, but for these little lokos with poor grounding, I went with a direct wired decoder and the ESU 54670 Powerpack. Getting a 21 pin decoder with the adapter board and the Powerpack into the loko would have been impossible. See the pictures. I feel the Powerpack is essential for smooth operation of these three and four axle lokos. The rubber tires insulate two of the six wheels from ground. On crossing tracks and M-track switches, one of the two rails is also isolated from ground. So you have two wheels at best making your ground connection to the rails. My experience is they will stall incessantly. I also work "backwards" when installing a decoder. Even with the 8 pin decoder that has the wires solder to the decoder, I remove those wires. Then I wire all connections to the loko using ESU's color code for the various connections. This way I can bundle the wires into a harness using shrink tubing and work my harness back to the decoder. Once the harness is finished, all the wires are cut to the length needed to solder to the decoder or adapter board. I found this provides the neatest wiring installation. I temporarily hold the decoder or adapter board to my workbench with two face tape. This keeps it in place while I solder as I do not have that third hand evolution left out. As Tom stated, see your manual for the correct motor settings for the motor you have. They give settings for a dozen or more motors. You just need to pick the settings right for your loko. Or better still, buy a LokProgrammer. You will be greatful you did. With it, one checkbox sets all the motor values for you. |
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397. |
1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
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Joined: 15/02/2003(UTC)
Posts: 61
Location: Athens, Greece
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Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: berdos Do I have to set specific CV values on my LokPilot decoder for my 3pole motor in order to improve driving characteristics? The ESU decoder manual suggests values for the three Märklin motor types converted with ESU magnets - and I would try these values. Indeed! It moves smoothly now even with the 3pole old motor. |
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