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Offline Neah  
#1 Posted : 03 October 2013 03:55:30(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
Hello everyone! I just bought a 29483 digital starter set and I have a big problem.

1/ I followed the instructions in the manual, but the mfx loco is found but does not register. When I put it on the rails mfx blinks a couple of times on the MS2 screen than nothing. No Loco!

2/ When I do a search it finds the loco then the display says "reading-loco" then it doesn't get added. The mfx text keeps blinking after.

3/ I tried adding the loco from the database, but it's not listed. Go figure! This being a set, shouldn't the 29483 be in there???

4/ I finally tried adding it manually using the address 44 as indicated in the booklet. This kinda worked but there is a big problem. All the functions work, but you have to press stop twice for the train to respond. So to increase speed for instance, you rotate the dial, press stop ( train stops ) press stop ( train starts and increases speed ). This is obviously not how it's supposed to work.

I've searched the forums and google and didn't find any similar problem mentioned.

What do you guys think? Where is the problem? The loco? The MS2?

I bought the set new but on eBay from a seller called lonepcfn, so returning it would blow.

Please help a noob out :)

Edited by user 04 October 2013 03:24:46(UTC)  | Reason: Solved

Offline Neah  
#2 Posted : 03 October 2013 05:02:07(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
Update: I changed Loco Protocols to DCC, MM2 and now everything's running fine!

When I select any Loco Protocol combination containing mfx the train only responds once after each Stop.

wtf?
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 03 October 2013 07:28:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Welcome to the forum!
Originally Posted by: Neah Go to Quoted Post
3/ I tried adding the loco from the database, but it's not listed. Go figure! This being a set, shouldn't the 29483 be in there???
You don't find any mfx locos in the DB, mfx locos have to register automatically.
Most likely a decoder problem, but could also be a trackbox problem.

The loco must not react to address 44 if mfx is activated in the MS2 menu. Never, not even after a double click on STOP.

If you disable mfx in the MS2 menu, then all mfx locos will have to use the MM protocol.
A new decoder or a new trackbox may be cheaper than the return postage, so maybe just wait and use address 44 until you buy a second mfx loco.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Neah  
#4 Posted : 03 October 2013 07:59:11(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
Thanks for the warm welcome and the reply Tom!

I already have an mfx loco on order, it's a 37106.

So what you're saying is that if the 37106 works fine then it's the decoder on the 29483. Otherwise the problem is with the trackbox.

I'll let you know, hopefully today or tomorrow.

Thanks again :)

Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 03 October 2013 08:20:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Neah Go to Quoted Post
So what you're saying is that if the 37106 works fine then it's the decoder on the 29483. Otherwise the problem is with the trackbox.
Most likely it's either the decoder or the trackbox. It could be something else, but if you only used the items from the starter set and got the loco running with MM protocol then I cannot image which PEBKAC could prevent the loco from registering automatically.

The MS2 has an option somewhere that displays its software version. Which version is yours?

Edit: I see your dealer is in the US, so maybe postage will be cheaper than a new decoder.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Neah  
#6 Posted : 03 October 2013 12:14:23(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
The MS2's software version is 1.81

Offline Neah  
#7 Posted : 03 October 2013 20:46:55(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
I got the new 37106 mfx loco and adding it with mfx enabled did not work. But unlike the 29483 the MS2 was able to search, find it and add it using MM2 with mfx disabled. So I did not have to add it manually as with the 29483 loco.

So is it the railbox or the MS2 that's bad? Do u think updating the software on the MS2 could fix it.

BTW, I did factory reset the MS2 and made sure the railbox was updated to v1.39, but none of that helped.

Offline BrandonVA  
#8 Posted : 03 October 2013 20:57:04(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Neah,

I think 1.83 is the newest version, but you are not too far back. I don't think this is typical behaviour, I doubt two locos have bad decoders so it is probably something else. I wonder if there is anybody nearby who could lone you a track box for testing (or let you connect your MS2 to their track box temporarily)? Or a dealer you could visit to test (although since you are in the US as well, I know this is doubtful)?

-Brandon
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 03 October 2013 21:04:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Neah Go to Quoted Post
I got the new 37106 mfx loco and adding it with mfx enabled did not work.
Do you get a blinking "mfx" as with the other loco?

Last thing you can try is hook only a single 24188 to your railbox and give it another try with mfx enabled. "Detect loco" should give mfx locos a kick if they don't register automatically.

Do you connect the railbox directly to the track? Or did you get a little "black box" for the connection? Märklin made some radio interference suppressors for FCC compliance (maybe that (if present) disturbs mfx).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Neah  
#10 Posted : 03 October 2013 21:19:33(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
Originally Posted by: BrandonVA Go to Quoted Post
Or a dealer you could visit to test (although since you are in the US as well, I know this is doubtful)?


Just found out that there is actually a dealer a couple of miles away from me. Laugh The Marklin inventory on their site is pretty impressive and they claim to be "The largest Marklin Trains & Trix Minitrix Direct Importer/exporter Worldwide.". I guess I got lucky!

I'll pay them a visit later today or tomorrow and maybe they can test & upgrade my railbox and MS2.
Offline Webmaster  
#11 Posted : 03 October 2013 21:26:34(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
Let's hope William & staff at MMM can help you out, buy a wagon or such too if they are helpful... Wink
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline biedmatt  
#12 Posted : 03 October 2013 21:33:30(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Bring lots of coin if you're talking Miami, FL. They have lots of things ready for you to take home.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline Neah  
#13 Posted : 03 October 2013 21:38:48(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Do you get a blinking "mfx" as with the other loco?


Yes, it get exactly the same symptoms as with the first loco. mfx blinks twice then nothing. A forced search yields nothing when mfx protocol is enabled.

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Last thing you can try is hook only a single 24188 to your railbox and give it another try with mfx enabled. "Detect loco" should give mfx locos a kick if they don't register automatically.


I already tried that but forgot to mention it.

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Do you connect the railbox directly to the track? Or did you get a little "black box" for the connection? Märklin made some radio interference suppressors for FCC compliance (maybe that (if present) disturbs mfx).


I do have the little black box between the railbox and the track. Since I'm visiting the dealer later today or tomorrow I'll let them take a crack at it.
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 03 October 2013 22:10:18(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
The little black box is for US only. Don't tell anybody you heard it from me, but maybe you can make a test while you forgot to add the little black box to the feeder wire ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Neah  
#15 Posted : 03 October 2013 22:17:36(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Let's hope William & staff at MMM can help you out, buy a wagon or such too if they are helpful... Wink


I'm actually planning to get some track extensions and possibly the Marklin 37790 High Speed Train TGV POS SNCF but they require that you also buy the set of cars # 43420, 43430 and 43440 which is a bit too long of a train for my humble stater set Huh.




Offline Neah  
#16 Posted : 03 October 2013 22:20:22(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Bring lots of coin if you're talking Miami, FL. They have lots of things ready for you to take home.


It would probably be a ruin if it weren't for the fact that they refuse to take Amex, the only card I use!

Offline Neah  
#17 Posted : 04 October 2013 03:22:20(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
The little black box is for US only. Don't tell anybody you heard it from me, but maybe you can make a test while you forgot to add the little black box to the feeder wire ...


That's what It was!!! The little black box or "FCC Connection Set 74041", as Marklin calls it, is what prevents mfx locos from registering and operating using the mfx protocol.

Now why the HELL would Marklin add a component that renders a system almost unusable? And if there is no way to be FCC compliant and keep mfx running, why is there not a single word about the limitation in the MS2 manual or the 74041 booklet?

I also would like to point out that there is no way to bypass the black box without cutting and taping the feeder wire or buying flat sleeve connectors (74995).

I hope this post will save future purchasers of Marklin products containing "FCC compliant" railboxes some head scratching and maybe even product returns.

This sux!

Thanks again Tom and to everyone else who commented.

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Offline AshleyH  
#18 Posted : 04 October 2013 09:10:26(UTC)
AshleyH

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 693
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset
That is good news, though I would assume that the black suppressor box was, in your case, faulty.

I have noticed that, even in Europe, Marklin are now supplying what I guess is a similar black box with the 60215 Central Station.
I would hope we would have had reports by now if these black boxes effectively suppress the bi-directional MFX communication.
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Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 04 October 2013 09:23:11(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
There are three "black boxes": first came two for FCC compliance, a small one for MS2 and a larger one for CS2.
Much later came a black box for EU compliance, shipped with recent CS2s.

I haven't heard of FCC "black boxes" interfering with MS2 before. So maybe it's a rare combination of tolerances (black box clears mfx more effectively than usual and railbox is less sensitive to mfx signals than usual), maybe the black box is defective, maybe it's by design (and dealers tell their customers to bridge the black box). Just speculating.

Maybe others who have a railbox with black box can share their experience?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline RayF  
#20 Posted : 04 October 2013 13:45:11(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,853
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I had a similar experience when I started using my MS2. Until that point I had been using the feeder circuit board which came with my Delta starter set. The digital commands worked fine even when I upgraded to using a 6021. When I attempted control using a MS2 the mfx signals just would not work. I ended up having to rip up my track and remove the circuit board.

My feelings are that interference suppression circuits are incompatible with reliable operation of mfx systems.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#21 Posted : 04 October 2013 14:31:51(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Until that point I had been using the feeder circuit board which came with my Delta starter set.
The description for that board indicates it must not be used for digital operation. Delta is digital - and still they shipped that board with Delta starter sets.

I used one of those on my layout - and some locos worked, others did not. Removing that board solved the problem.

Märklin shipped a few 2013 new locos without FCC approval. But if they are serious about growing in America, they will have to find a solution that is FCC approved - for the locos and the controllers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline BrandonVA  
#22 Posted : 04 October 2013 14:38:05(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: Neah Go to Quoted Post


I also would like to point out that there is no way to bypass the black box without cutting and taping the feeder wire or buying flat sleeve connectors (74995).



Neah,

On the bright side, as things grow you'll find you need more feeder wires and thus having some of the spade connectors on hand will help.

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Märklin shipped a few 2013 new locos without FCC approval. But if they are serious about growing in America, they will have to find a solution that is FCC approved - for the locos and the controllers.


I agree Tom, but I feel like that solution will probably be to continue to ship with interference suppressors and have customers forget to put them on. Unless they expand their US market, spending a lot of time getting FCC approval will (unfortunately) not be worth their time. I wonder if this is one of the reasons we didn't get digital systems in the US until 1986 (FCC approval that is)?

-Brandon

Offline BrandonVA  
#23 Posted : 04 October 2013 14:50:41(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I had a similar experience when I started using my MS2. Until that point I had been using the feeder circuit board which came with my Delta starter set.


Ray,

Was it one of those Delta starter sets that came with a Delta lok and an analog transformer? Just curious.

-Brandon
Offline Neah  
#24 Posted : 04 October 2013 14:51:06(UTC)
Neah

United States   
Joined: 03/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 15
Location: Miami
Originally Posted by: BrandonVA Go to Quoted Post

I feel like that solution will probably be to continue to ship with interference suppressors and have customers forget to put them on.


If that's the strategy then they should at least make it easier by adding a plug so that the end user doesn't have to cut through wires. A warning about mfx not working with the black box would have been nice.

But I guess most people buying their toys through the approved channels don't face this problem as I'm sure dealers are taking care of the black boxes upon delivery Wink. It's probably also why I did't find any info on this anywhere else.

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Offline BrandonVA  
#25 Posted : 04 October 2013 15:04:38(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
I don't know it's the right strategy, or any strategy at all...I just sort of expect that's what will happen so that they can keep FCC compliance with minimal effort. It would be nice if as you suggest they made the black box removable, and spades on the end of the wires instead...of course this would add (however slight) cost.

My father in law has an MS2 that came with a US starter set...next time I am up that way I'll have to look and see if it has the suppressor. He has two loks (like you), both are MFX and both work with MFX (I had to re-add one a while ago as something caused the initial MFX registration to "loose" some of the sound icons...maybe due to suppressor?). I probably won't be there for a few weeks, but I'll hopefully remember to update the thread.

-Brandon
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Offline RayF  
#26 Posted : 04 October 2013 16:34:09(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,853
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: BrandonVA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I had a similar experience when I started using my MS2. Until that point I had been using the feeder circuit board which came with my Delta starter set.


Ray,

Was it one of those Delta starter sets that came with a Delta lok and an analog transformer? Just curious.

-Brandon


Hi Brandon,

No this starter set came with the Delta Control 4F 66045. It was my introduction to the world of digital and allowed me to run other digital and delta locos I already had in digital mode.

The set has catalogue number 29517 and included a SBB train with a Ae 3/6, two covered wagons, a wine wagon, a gondola with gravel load, and a silo wagon.

I replaced the 66045 with a 6021 after a few years when new decoders started coming out which could not be programmed with DIP switches.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline BrandonVA  
#27 Posted : 22 October 2013 15:13:03(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: BrandonVA Go to Quoted Post

My father in law has an MS2 that came with a US starter set...next time I am up that way I'll have to look and see if it has the suppressor. He has two loks (like you), both are MFX and both work with MFX (I had to re-add one a while ago as something caused the initial MFX registration to "loose" some of the sound icons...maybe due to suppressor?). I probably won't be there for a few weeks, but I'll hopefully remember to update the thread.


Purely for interest, I checked the set this past weekend, there was no suppressor I could find. Nor was there one in the box, which leads me to believe he never received one. The starter set is 29539, which according to the Marklin product database is a 230v kit, which is probably why it does not have the US (FCC) specific suppressor. His kit has a US power supply, but I suspect the dealer just switched it.

-Brandon
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