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Offline sjlauritsen  
#1 Posted : 23 September 2013 07:03:24(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Hi guys

Using a contact and some wires I created a "poor man's" programming track to use with my MS2. I think the solution works fine and thought I would share it.

http://www.bahnfan.net/p...Marklin-Mobile-Station-2
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: http://baneforum.dk/
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Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 23 September 2013 13:06:40(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,235
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Hi Søren

I fully understand your objective and the desire to have an easily isolate-able piece of track on which to configure a single decoder without influencing others

However, if I may point out that in the wider, model railway standards, context of decoder programming (not configuration) the term programming track refers to, not just an isolated section of track but also, a section that has reduced current capabilities.

The purpose of the standard is (was) to address the "real" programming of motor characteristics and the possibility of burning out a decoder at installation time if those characteristics were not appropriate. At "new decoder install time" it also protected the controller in the event of shorts due to errors in wiring.

The Marklin world has been pretty much insulated from this issue because of the nice matching of its decoders to its motors/gearing. But with the opening up of a controller to the DCC (rest of the world) and people wanting to experiment with OEM decoders this issue emerges as something to be concerned about. Even if you are installing a Marklin decoder kit (mFX or otherwise) , it should be first tested on a "reduced current" programming track.

I can't put my finger on the actual max current specified for a programming track but believe it to be <1 Amp, whereas the MS2 can deliver 2 Amps.
(I do know there was a debate a while back about raising this limit when sound chips - even at idle would cause a cutout)

In summary, what you have provided is ideal for "re-configuring" the operation features like Address, Acc, Dec, Fx icons of non mFX or PoM decoders . What I am attempting to distinguish is the underlying programming (and the use of the term Programming track) relating to motor characteristics (usually a one off at installation time) which should be treated with a bit more respect.

Peter
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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 23 September 2013 14:46:01(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,415
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks Søren,

I have been thinking of doing exactly this modification to produce a "programming track", having accidentally reprogrammed multiple locomotives a few times! Now that I know I'm not alone I will go ahead and make the wiring changes needed.

While I fully understand Peter's reservation, I have to say that I have no qualms about calling this a programming track. It is a piece of track which I want to isolate in order to program my decoders without influencing others. The fact that it does not meet International specifications for a "Programming Track" is neither here nor there, as the MS2 gives you no such thing as a reduced current output, and you've got to program the dammed things somewhere!

As a compromise, I suggest that this is a programming track (no capitals) and Peter is referring to a Programming Track (DCC definition).

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 23 September 2013 14:59:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,497
Location: DE-NW
I didn't find an NMRA definition of "programming track".

They define a Service Mode Environment:
http://www.nmra.org/stan...standards_rps/rp923.html

While both the MS2 and CS2 can program DCC decoders in service mode, neither of them conforms to the Service Mode Environment Recommended Practices (power output is 1.9 A with MS2 and 1.0 A with CS2).
I don't know if the programming tracks of my IB or CS1 conform the the NMRA RP.

IMHO there are many different definitions of "programming track" - and I think Søren may use this term for his solution.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline waorb  
#5 Posted : 23 September 2013 15:00:10(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 855
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I have been thinking of doing exactly this modification to produce a "programming track", having accidentally reprogrammed multiple locomotives a few times!

Hi!

Of course I had also in the past reprogrammed multiple locomotives with the same configuration. Blushing
(at that time I had only the MS1)

Now with the CS2, I have one doubt. Even with the programming track plugged in the CS2, I need to unplug the main track cable from the CS2 when configuring locomotives at the programming track?

Or I can leave both plugs connected into CS2 - no matter programming or using normally the layout?

Meanwhile Søren, good solution to have a programming track "inside" the layout. Thanks for sharing!
(maybe a good place to create one is an end-of-track section; before the bumper)

Regards,

Walter
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 23 September 2013 15:57:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,497
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
Now with the CS2, I have one doubt. Even with the programming track plugged in the CS2, I need to unplug the main track cable from the CS2 when configuring locomotives at the programming track?
You need double isolation between main track and programming track, but there is no need to unplug anything.
If the programming track is connected to the layout, isolate centre rail and outer rails. Make sure no car/loco bridges main track and programming track when you do any programming of DCC or MM locos.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline waorb  
#7 Posted : 23 September 2013 18:52:40(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 855
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
Now with the CS2, I have one doubt. Even with the programming track plugged in the CS2, I need to unplug the main track cable from the CS2 when configuring locomotives at the programming track?
You need double isolation between main track and programming track, but there is no need to unplug anything.
If the programming track is connected to the layout, isolate centre rail and outer rails. Make sure no car/loco bridges main track and programming track when you do any programming of DCC or MM locos.

I only have MM locos (FX, MFX, some olders with dip switches). The programming track isn't connected to the main track.

Thanks!

Walter
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 23 September 2013 19:20:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,497
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
I only have MM locos (FX, MFX, some olders with dip switches).
mfx is not MM. You don't need the programming track to alter settings of mfx decoders (but AFAIK you need the programming track to upload new firmware or new sound projects).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline waorb  
#9 Posted : 23 September 2013 20:27:40(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 855
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
I only have MM locos (FX, MFX, some olders with dip switches).
mfx is not MM. You don't need the programming track to alter settings of mfx decoders (but AFAIK you need the programming track to upload new firmware or new sound projects).

Bottom line, I only used the programming track some few time to exchange digital codes from locos that have addresses already taken by other...

I don't have anyone, but want some sound modules... didn't found a bargain yet...

Thanks!

Walter
Offline sjlauritsen  
#10 Posted : 24 September 2013 06:46:16(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Hi guys

Thanks for all your replies. Smile

Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
Bottom line, I only used the programming track some few time to exchange digital codes from locos that have addresses already taken by other...
I don't have anyone, but want some sound modules... didn't found a bargain yet...

If I could choose, I would have a separate programming track, supported by the control system. That way I am sure that, when in programming mode, I will only program the locomotive on the programming track. I do not think there is a reason not to set it up, when the control system supports it. I would probably not include the programming track in my layout. I did this in the example, because I found it the easiest way for the current solution.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: http://baneforum.dk/
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 24 September 2013 07:54:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,497
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
I would probably not include the programming track in my layout.
Remember that powered railcars may be longer than four meters in H0 gauge. It's nice to be able to drive them from main track to the programming track.

With a CS2 the programming track should be a siding, with CS1 or ECoS it can be a siding or a part of the main route.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#12 Posted : 24 September 2013 08:48:44(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
I would probably not include the programming track in my layout.
Remember that powered railcars may be longer than four meters in H0 gauge. It's nice to be able to drive them from main track to the programming track.

With a CS2 the programming track should be a siding, with CS1 or ECoS it can be a siding or a part of the main route.

That of course could be a problem. I do not have any of those, so I did not take that into consideration.

Why does the programming track on the CS2 need to be part of the layout? There are separate plugs on the CS2 for main and programming track? I assumed it was the same as my Lenz, because they receive separate signals.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: http://baneforum.dk/
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 24 September 2013 10:25:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,497
Location: DE-NW
There are different designs: CS1 and Intellibox have an old-fashioned relay. When not in programming mode, the main track output is routed to the programming track (so full power available when not in programming mode).

CS2 is modern: both main track and programming track are run by different transistors. Programming track is limited to 1 A. Some trains with light consume more than 1 A at full speed, so I'm afraid that this could be a problem if the programming track is part of the main route.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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