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Offline Velchy  
#1 Posted : 30 August 2013 11:49:13(UTC)
Velchy

Oman   
Joined: 19/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 38
Location: Al Azaiba, Muscat
Hi all, I've got ANOTHER question to ask: I want to get this very nice set of Russian sleeper coaches, but they're wheel sets are DC and marklin sells AC wheel sets for coaches and wagons.

So my question is can you run DC wheels on AC track or should I get the AC wheel sets?

Although a problem that may arise is that those coaches aren't marklin; they're made by Russian company Eurotrain. Here's the link: http://http://www.super-pilot.r...oti/vagoni.html/nid/7828. Sadly it is only in Russian.

Getting back to point, will the marklin wheel sets fit into the bogies because as I've written they are two different manufacturers?

Cheers, Vel

P.S. Sorry for all of the questions I'm throwing at you!LOL
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 30 August 2013 11:59:41(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Vel,

nothing, absoutely nothing.

there is a possibility the wheels will not fit.
the only time DC wheels will not be suitable if you use your tracks as sensors, where as the isolated track will make contact the moment AC wheels run over them.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline amartinezv  
#3 Posted : 30 August 2013 12:14:58(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 332
Location: Madrid,
Hello

the differences between AC and DC wheels are:

--the distance between flanges, sometimes this is the cause of some derailments, mainly over turnouts, usually is possible to adjust this distance.

--The size of flanges, usually in DC wheels is less that AC, so it is not important.

--The wheels in DC are isolated and in AC not, this is only important if you have ocupancy detetectors in your layout, even in this case is possible to get a solution.

hope this helps, best regards
Antonio Martínez
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline efel  
#4 Posted : 30 August 2013 13:36:57(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Hi,
If you don't use "contact track", there is no electrical issue, as always said above.
Now, from a mecanical point of view, I don't think there is an definitive answer. For example, I had to change the original DC wheels to an AC set on some LSM coaches, to avoid deraillment. On the other hand, I kept the DC wheels of a REE wagon without problem.
Fred
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Offline David1954  
#5 Posted : 30 August 2013 14:20:05(UTC)
David1954

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Texas
AC wheels conduct electricity through the wheel across the entire wheel axle to the other wheel. This is because the rails are either negative or positive depending on how the locomotive is traveling with the center rail being the negative/positive. DC wheels are insulated in the center of the axle; since DC style trains have rails that are negative or positive with no center rail whatsoever or will not conduct electricity. AC rails have alternating current and DC rails have direct current.

If you try to use AC wheels on a DC track it will short out the track. That is why most Marklin dealers tell you that Marklin cars won't work on anything but Marklin train systems. All you have to do is change the wheels. Other differences "might" be the space between the wheels (unlikely) or the length of the flanges (generally not).

In short if you want to use Marklin train cars that are NOT lighted on non-European trains....just change the wheels.
Offline jvuye  
#6 Posted : 30 August 2013 14:43:11(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,883
Location: South Western France
As mentioned already the only critical dimension is the inner spacing between flanges.

Märklin wheels are spec'd at 13.8 mm.
DC Wheels are spec'd at 14.2 mm.

13.8 mm is really necessary if you run on M- or K-track
With C-track you can get away with 14 mm, even if you use NMRA (US spec) low profile wheels.
In the latter case, the ride could be a bit "wobbly" on switches, but if you don't run at warp speed all the time, you won't see too many derailments

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 30 August 2013 15:09:49(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,771
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: David1954 Go to Quoted Post
.......This is because the rails are either negative or positive depending on how the locomotive is traveling with the center rail being the negative/positive.


Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused

Bollocks!

On an AC system using 3 rails, both outside rails are at ground or earth potential, which is signified by the brown wire that is used for this connection.

The centre rail is at positive potential - normally around 18v to 21v AC, and is signified by the red wire that is used for this connection.

As has been pointed out, AC wheels are not electrically isolated since both outside rails are at ground potential. Therefore they are ideal for use as a contact sensor. It is possible to run DC wheels on AC 3 rail track, but you can't run AC wheels on a 2 rail DC powered track - an electrical short will happen if you do.


Originally Posted by: David1954 Go to Quoted Post
AC rails have alternating current and DC rails have direct current.


That's a fairly obscure statement - to say that rails are AC or DC means nothing. When you use the terms 'AC' and 'DC' you are referring to the type of current being used, not the type of rails. Yes, two rail track is normally associated with DC and three rail track is normally associated with AC, but not always! Ever heard of 3 rail DC? It is possible.
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 30 August 2013 17:07:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
The centre rail is at positive potential - normally around 18v to 21v AC, and is signified by the red wire that is used for this connection.
Brown is earth or ground or neutral, red is the live wire (phase) - it changes between positive and negative 100 or 120 times a second (analogue) or about 10,000 times a second (digital).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Online mike c  
#9 Posted : 30 August 2013 20:38:44(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,229
Location: Montreal, QC
If you are using K or C Track, you can use DC wheel sets with very little problems. If you are using the older M (metal) track, you may have some issues because of wheel spacing. Some DC models come with finer wheels which have a lower profile and may derail on Maerklin tracks. In order to change the wheel sets, find out the size (usually between 9 and 11mm) and replace with the corresponding non-insulated wheelsets from Maerklin, Roco or other company. The other thing that you will have to check is the design of the end of the axle shaft, as some models, particularly older ones, may have thinner and longer shafts than the current ones with the tapered end.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 30 August 2013 23:12:43(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,771
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
The centre rail is at positive potential - normally around 18v to 21v AC, and is signified by the red wire that is used for this connection.
Brown is earth or ground or neutral, red is the live wire (phase) - it changes between positive and negative 100 or 120 times a second (analogue) or about 10,000 times a second (digital).


Well, yes, if you want to get technical you're right. But in general terms the centre rail is regarded as positive / live.
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 30 August 2013 23:29:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Well, yes, if you want to get technical you're right. But in general terms the centre rail is regarded as positive / live.
Language barrier - or funny aspect of colloquial English. "Positive AC." I learned something new here.
In the case of digital operation it's "bipolar positive DC." Or is it "positive bipolar DC?" Confused

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#12 Posted : 31 August 2013 00:10:58(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,771
Location: New Zealand
If you're not going to call the red wire positive, what are you going to call it?
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 31 August 2013 00:18:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
Live? Phase?
It seems that "phase" will work in English and German - and it's a more "neutral" term (pun intended) than "positive AC" (the wire has a negative voltage half of the time).

I don't know how you native English speakers call it. Probably there will be half a dozen or more applicable terms.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 31 August 2013 00:40:09(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,771
Location: New Zealand
Red wires have always been called 'positive', perhaps somewhat colloquially, but in the electrical trade black and red are often called neutral and phase (yes, house wiring here still uses the old colours), and green is earth.

'Phase' is as good as any term, I guess.

However, calling the Marklin brown wire neutral or ground may not be entirely correct, it is one or the other - the terms 'neutral' and 'earth' do not necessarily mean the same thing.


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_and_neutral

"Ground or earth in a mains (AC power) electrical wiring system is a conductor that provides a low impedance path to the earth to prevent hazardous voltages from appearing on equipment (the terms "ground" (North American practice) and "earth" (most other English-speaking countries) are used synonymously here). Under normal conditions, a grounding conductor does not carry current.

Neutral is a circuit conductor that carries current in normal operation, which is connected to ground (or earth)."
Offline nevw  
#15 Posted : 31 August 2013 01:49:39(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
No RED is Active and Brown is Neutral in AC Parlance.

Not all 2 rail is Dc. DCC uses a Modified AC (Just like Maerklin) power BUT in 2 rail polarity is important.

NN.

Just my 2 amps/volts worth
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline river6109  
#16 Posted : 31 August 2013 03:54:36(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I have heard positive and negative answers but I like to keep neutral.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline franciscohg  
#17 Posted : 31 August 2013 04:57:28(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,298
Location: Patagonia
BigGrin
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I have heard positive and negative answers but I like to keep neutral.

John
BigGrin

UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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