 Joined: 21/08/2010(UTC) Posts: 502
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Hello Everyone, I finally finished placing the catenary on the layout (altough not yet firmly fixed to the table)... And it works great but not like usual so,e things are not working as planned. The first issue is as followed: My marklin 3044 (ea dhg500) doesn t seem to run very well on some parts of the catenary. I have already tried cleaning sleeper part of the pantograph, cleaning the catenary wire on those places (other loco s run well on those places, even the on sleeper point panto on the marklin 3322), but to no avail... When I switch the loco back to track power pickup it runs great. The pantograph look like it s new and the springs do their job well (or it looks like it...). So here I m dazzled??? Does anyone know what can be going on or a solution? This is the loco I m talking about:  Another "issue" I have is with my marklin 3322, Db br194, where the sleeper point of the pantograph tilts backwards. On it s own it s not a big issue, but when reversing it bumps into everything on the catenary since it doesn t tilt to the opposite direction... Is this regular for that type of pantograph (hope not, because this is really stupid) or does something have to be adjusted??? This is an example on how it looks:  All help and suggestions are greatly appreciated! Kind regards, Kristof |
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 Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi Kristoff
Do other loks suffer in the same place as the 3044?
If it is under the piece of catenary shown in the picture then it does look a little pitted and may well be rusted under the coating, causing the slow down.
Have you tried changing the wires about to see if the problem moves with the piece?
Mike |
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital? |
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 Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,555 Location: Finland
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Hi Kristof, How many power feeding catenary masts you use and how long distance from each other? Is the problem areas with EA 800 (3044) from long distance away from power feeding catenary mast? Just some thoughts if it has something to do with it... As this EA 800 is so lightweight and ground contact can be worse from wheels to track and that pantograph type will not maybe give the best possible contact vs. "normal" pantograph.  Best regards, Janne |
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner. |
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Joined: 21/08/2010(UTC) Posts: 502
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Hey Mike & Janne,
First of all, thanks for the replies.
@ Mike: They don 't, even the loco on the second photo (which has a more sensitive power pickup) runs through it, even at a real slow speed. The places where it happens are 2 new pieces (well second hand but never used) and I have cleaned them. I will try another piece right away. So the picture is not the place where it doesn 't work, it 's just as a reference to what loco I 'm talking about.
@ Janne: I have several (max distance 60cm), but they haven 't all been connected yet. Odd thing is, one of the two places is the wire connected to a connected pole, which I have tested and is conducting power (just to be sure)... Well the ground contact is really ok, since I have run it on sleeper and track, without any issue at all, but can you clearify what you mean normal pantograph part, it 's not really clear to me
Greetings Kristof |
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 Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,879 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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have a look A.) the pantograph itself a little CRC may do the job and B.) clean the surface of the wiper. |
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Joined: 21/08/2010(UTC) Posts: 502
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Hey John,
Thanks for the reply, but what is CRC? The surface has been cleaned yet, using a railgum and a lot of care :-)
Kristof |
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Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,555 Location: Finland
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Kristof,
If you have your feeder masts every 60 cm, then that must be very good. With newer Märklin catenary recommendation is every 2-3 meter between feeder masts, so yours are 3-5 times nearer each other which must be ok for sure.
By "normal" pantograph I mean the types that are regular, not single arm like this 3044 has. Normal like in Märklin locos for example 3022, 3034, 3035, 3036, 3037, 3038, 3050....
PS. CRC is sprayable oil (actually it is brand name, but if you say use CRC it means sprayable oil that is same than WD40 for example).
Best regards,
Janne |
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner. |
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Joined: 21/08/2010(UTC) Posts: 502
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Hey Janne,
I have a small layout, and the one thing I really don 't want later on is issues with feeding the track nor catenary, and that seemed like a good solution :-).
I guess you have a point there, since they have a better contact on their own (4 arms instead of 2), but to be honest, I tested as well with a 3355 (br111 in s bahn colors), which has the same type of pantograph and with one pantograph up it didn 't have any issues at all on those places. So I guess they can work well too...
Kristof |
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Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,555 Location: Finland
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Yes, better to have more than less current feeding points at track and catenary. I have eight current feeding points at my layouts upper level approximately 2-3 meters from each other. I used thicker (larger) wires also. I will have later catenary to my upper level outer main line and feed between every 2-3 meters. New type Märklin catenary has good contacts as it has soldered mast arms. I will only use it to power my analog electric locos which are not so demanding for perfect current supply than Digital locos are. For my Delta and Digital electric locos it is only for looks, so this 2-3 meter distance between feeder masts must be enough for me.
Janne |
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner. |
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 Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,597 Location: Beverly, MA
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Hi all, Quote: On it s own it s not a big issue, but when reversing it bumps into everything on the catenary since it doesn t tilt to the opposite direction... Is this regular for that type of pantograph (hope not, because this is really stupid) or does something have to be adjusted???
Yes,the 'wiper' on a model panto is suppose to swivel to adjust to the wire. Dr D
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Joined: 21/08/2010(UTC) Posts: 502
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Hey Janne, Dr D & all the others helping to find the solution,
First off all, the 3044 runs ok now, we recleaned the wire and altough it looked clean, it still was dirty... how looks can be deceiving. I also guess the 3044 was the loco the most vulnerable to the situation?
@ Janne: Thanks for the clearifaction, I didn't knew that brand, but wd40 is well known here. I m curious, do you have an example of the wire used? I also only use the functional catenary for the analog layout, the digital -to be build- layout will only have it for optical purposes, just like you say...
@Dr D.: Shouldn't it swivel back then when changing direction, because that is not happening.
Kristof
Ps: how is the wiper part called correctly in english? |
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 1 user liked this useful post by Artologic
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Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,555 Location: Finland
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Kristof, The electric wire I used for my eight track power supply points is 0,75 mm2 if you asked for this? This has nothing to do with the catenary as discussed in this topic though... I'm glad that you got your 3044 working now when you cleaned your catenary wires again  . I have also an analog 3044 that is otherwise ok, but it would need replacement wheels. I got this one for really cheap price. I think that it has been unused on tracks for a long time in high humidity. Wheels have rusted and previous owner has removed not only rust from them, but also worn the wheels by doing it. It begins to spin it's wheels very easily even when I replaced it's rubber traction tires with new ones. What locos use these same wheels than 3044? Best regards, Janne |
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner. |
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 Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 801
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Originally Posted by: Janne75  ...
PS. CRC is sprayable oil (actually it is brand name, but if you say use CRC it means sprayable oil that is same than WD40 for example).
Hi, I think river6109 suggested CRC contact cleaner, and not CRC oil ? Fred
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Joined: 21/08/2010(UTC) Posts: 502
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Hey Janne & Fred,
@Janne:I misunderstood, I tought you used different catenary wires, my bad :-$. It s a real nice loco, I bought mine second hand, but I m wondering if it ever run more then a few meters in it 's life... I have a dhg700 with the opposite issue, the wheels seem fine, but the chassis is shot (It ran so much that the axel bushes are totally worn out). I have an idea, I ll send you a pm in a minute...
@Fred: I think it does both, oil and clean. But I m no expert either :-)
Kristof |
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 Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,245 Location: Montreal, QC
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The small shunter uses the old 7219 pantograph. These were notorious for not remaining flush to the catenary wire, which caused poor connection. You may wish to consider replacing the pantograph with a newer design from Sommerfeldt or Maerklin (if there is an updated model). This might require carefully separating the plastic base plate from the pantograph, so that you can reuse the feet for the new pantograph.
As far as the 194 (E94), you can try lubricating the spots where the wiper is mounted onto the pantograph, which might help the blade remain in better contact with the catenary. If this does not help, you can definitely look at replacement Sommerfeldt or other pantographs which are available for this model.
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,597 Location: Beverly, MA
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1 user liked this useful post by kbvrod
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,245 Location: Montreal, QC
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It is either called the wiper or the blade.
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 27/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: HOLLADAY, UTAH
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locomotive internal connection issues:
1. Contact between bottom of pantograph and inside of locomotive?
tight, clean, under mechanical spring tension?
2. Selector switch Oberleitung - Schleifer? clean, tight?
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Joined: 17/11/2010(UTC) Posts: 228 Location: Denver, Colo. USA
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Originally Posted by: Artologic Hey John,
Thanks for the reply, but what is CRC? The surface has been cleaned yet, using a railgum and a lot of care :-)
Kristof
Concerning the #3044 AEG shunter, you have isolated the problem to its overhead connection, since the model operates properly over the same spot on track voltage. Besides cleaning the wire and contact surface of the pantograph, it sometimes is necessary to buff off some of the original nickel plating on both to ensure a good connection. Rust and an unworn surface have the same deleterious effect.
Note that some sets of pantographs have height limiters that resemble wings protruding from the nut which secures them to the roof. If these are too far depressed, the pantograph will not raise under sufficient tension to make good contact, in which case there will be a lot of blue sparking. I do not believe this model has that type.
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Collector of Märklin fine-quality trains since 1966.
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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi Just trialling my layout yesterday and on one particular wire the engines were slowing down. I couldn't see any defect but if I rubbed my finger over the contact edge I could feel some pitting.  I changed it for a new one and hey presto - no slowing down.  Mike |
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital? |
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Joined: 21/08/2010(UTC) Posts: 502
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Hello everyone,
Thanks for the lot of replies :-). I 'll try to respond to them all, hoping to not skip over anyone.
@Janne: Halfly replied in the pb, they are the dhg500 (ie: 3078, 3080, 3144), dhg700 (ie: 3088) and of course another 3044. The new hobby models have different wheels...
@Mike C: That s a good thing to know, I ll suspect the pantographs first next time. This is the first time I really use working catenary, so I ll learn a thing or 2 on the way. Also since I m using this loco for my vintage layout, I really would like them to have the same looks (sommerfeldt would look to new, as would maerklins). But it s a handy tip, thanks. I can be of use for my modern rolling stock later on...
For the br194, the panto s are nearly new, so I really first am going to try to make these ones work and if that doesn t help, I m going to replace them. I still would find it a pity to replace new pantographs...
@Dr. D.: I would, if I knew how. I ll first try to lubricate it, like Mike said... Thanks for the link!
@Kdfvwmann: Everything is clean, and after cleaning the catenary the problem is fixed, at least for now... But thanks!
@br01097: I did clean off some of the dirt and plating on some of the catenary, which did a marvelous trick. I didn t knew that new catenary could be so hard to get good contact from...
Do you have an example of those height limiters? I m really curious about what exactly you mean...
@Mike (hennabm): I switched 2 wires on one place, without doing anything else and the problem was fully gone there... Really strange. Well I don t have the luxury of much spares, but will get some when the chance arrives.
Everyone, thanks for the help and good suggestions, I have learned a thing of 2 about catenary and the related issues
Kristof |
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2 users liked this useful post by Artologic
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Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,597 Location: Beverly, MA
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Hi Kristof,all, Quote:@Dr. D.: I would, if I knew how. I ll first try to lubricate it, Careful there.First try an adjust the pan 'tabs' so it swivels back and forth, Dr D
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