Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,226 Location: Montreal, QC
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What is the English term for "Bastlermodell", a model train that requires repair, rebuilding or improvement in order to be used?
I know of "scratch built" referring to a model that is built from parts, but is there a better term for the German description?
Thanks
Mike C
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW
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Sellers often write "für Bastler" (for tinkerers) to indicate the item is not functioning properly and comes without any warranties. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165
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Could even mean that the model is suitable as a spare part collection for other models - taken to the extreme interpretation of the term... |
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb] |
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Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 1,291 Location: Port Moody, BC
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In the direct translation it generally refers to a Hobbyist's model. However, it usually implies that the model has some form of defect that would render it non desirable for a child using it as a toy or an adult who wants a model that will run immediately without a problem or any sort of work.
Therefore, as the others have indicated you can consider that such a model will require some work to make it functional, or that it can only be used for spare parts. The exact nature of a problem with a bastlermodell would need to be described further.
Cheers Peter
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: mike c  What is the English term for "Bastlermodell", a model train that requires repair, rebuilding or improvement in order to be used?
I know of "scratch built" referring to a model that is built from parts, but is there a better term for the German description?
Thanks
Mike C Hi Mike! I would simply call it a "project". Any red blooded English speaking person would normally catch the significance of it IMHO. Hope this help. |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
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Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 3,994 Location: Paremata, Wellington
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Originally Posted by: jvuye  Originally Posted by: mike c  What is the English term for "Bastlermodell", a model train that requires repair, rebuilding or improvement in order to be used?
I know of "scratch built" referring to a model that is built from parts, but is there a better term for the German description?
Thanks
Mike C Hi Mike! I would simply call it a "project". Any red blooded English speaking person would normally catch the significance of it IMHO. Hope this help. We could describe it in a less formal way as a " fixer-upper", quite a common term down-under more often referring to Cars or a House but could equally apply to a hobby project. If I were listing an item like that I would possibly also describe it as a " restoration project" or possibly " revival project". Sometimes languages other than English have an advantage over us when we have so many words all roughly meaning the same thing. Cheers Cookee |
Cookee Wellington  |
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Joined: 10/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 455 Location: Pacific Ocean
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Bastlermodell: Partially assembled kit designed to test the abilities of the most demanding hobbyist. -gk
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Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443
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Is Bastler not the German word for Painter? |
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare). |
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Originally Posted by: NS1200  Is Bastler not the German word for Painter? As in "Interior decorator" or "Artist"? |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: NS1200  Is Bastler not the German word for Painter? Yes, it's not. That would be Maler or Anstreicher or maybe Lackierer. Or more general Künstler (artist). A "Bastler" is a real DIY person, so s/he may do painting at times. A "Bastler" is a hobbyist (and the word is often used if the quality of the results is not too good). A "Bastlermodell" could be the product of a Bastler (e.g. a BR 216 with pantographs, as you sometimes find the on eBay.de). The word can have several meanings and cannot be translated out of context. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,226 Location: Montreal, QC
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The question is in regards to a model that was received that was advertised as a "new condition display model" that arrived broken and not usable in it's present status. I wanted to use the phrase "in seinem heutigen Zustand koennte das Modell nur als ein Bastlermodell beschrieben werden" and came up with "in it's present condition, the model could only be described as a ..." (and my mother tongue is English).
What would be the correct description? In automotive terms, such a car would be described as a "junker" or a "beater"
Help, I'm drawing a blank here.
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443
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Originally Posted by: H0  Originally Posted by: NS1200  Is Bastler not the German word for Painter? Yes, it's not. That would be Maler or Anstreicher or maybe Lackierer. Or more general Künstler (artist). A "Bastler" is a real DIY person, so s/he may do painting at times. A "Bastler" is a hobbyist (and the word is often used if the quality of the results is not too good). A "Bastlermodell" could be the product of a Bastler (e.g. a BR 216 with pantographs, as you sometimes find the on eBay.de). The word can have several meanings and cannot be translated out of context. What a beautiful language it is,the German language! |
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare). |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: mike c  "in it's present condition, the model could only be described as a ..." "in it's present condition, the model could only be used as a door stopper" (well, maybe it's too light for that) Or maybe "spare parts donor"? |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443
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Basteln in English is "to do handicrafts". In Dutch this would be "knutselen".
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Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare). |
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,226 Location: Montreal, QC
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@Tom, Spare Parts Donor. That would be the famous Ersatzteilspender.
In English, there are the terms "fixer upper" and "renovation job" used in real estate.
I think that "fixer upper" is something that a layman would understand.
Regards
Mike C
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 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,226 Location: Montreal, QC
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One question... If you paid for a "like new display model", would you be happy if it arrived with parts hanging loose and the seller telling you "just glue it and it will be as good as new"?
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 1,291 Location: Port Moody, BC
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To complete your sentence I would list it as "in it's present condition, the model could only be described as a modeller's source for spare parts or a new restoration project".
Cheers Peter
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 1 user liked this useful post by PMPeter
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Joined: 13/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: France
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 1 user liked this useful post by Timothy
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Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,049
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One word answer to your one question, Mike...NO!
Roger |
Modeling Immensee, mile/km 0 on the Gottard. SBB Era V.
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Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 3,994 Location: Paremata, Wellington
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Originally Posted by: mike c  One question... If you paid for a "like new display model", would you be happy if it arrived with parts hanging loose and the seller telling you "just glue it and it will be as good as new"?
Regards
Mike C Ah, well now you open another possibility. Had it come from a retailer or recognised dealer, one term that might apply is 'shop-soiled', generally means an item that is in itself still 'new', but has been on display, possibly some handling marks dirty etc but generally in good functional order, but most likely cosmetically marked or even lightly damaged. Whiteware (fridges, appliances etc) are often sold like this because they do take knocks in a showroom. If you bought it from a private seller, then to have not specified any loose/missing or damaged parts is very clearly misleading and I would demaned at least a discount/partial refund, or just return the item for a full refund and be done with it. You might ask yourself, would you have paid what you did pay had you known it's true condition? - if you still got a bargain even with the damage, then hard as it might be, sometimes these things are better to take on the chin, and not allow them to spoil the experience. But if you paid over the odds thinking you were getting truly 'like new' then of course you have a case. Small parts that have become loose and can easily be refitted are just a fact of life and could have come adrift either in shipping, or while it was being repacked. But if any small parts are actually broken then you should not accept a suggestion to glue them back on as being realistic. Another term that might apply is 'play-worn' but I'm wondering why you are asking about the original term "Bastlermodell"? Was that term used in the original description, or are you trying to find a word to describe back to the seller what you believe the condition should have been described as?? Cheers Steve |
Cookee Wellington  |
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,226 Location: Montreal, QC
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The seller listed the model as Neu (New) but gave the following description in the listing:
"Heute wird angeboten ein neues Vitrinenmodell ohne erkennbare Mängel, keine Abbrüche..." which means " Today is offered a new Display model without any damage or broken parts"
What arrived was a model with partially detached side walls which would require a glue job by an expert hobbyist to properly reattach. Wabu models use base models from other manufacturers, which are modified by the use of brass etched panels which are glued onto the existing shell (or remnants thereof), enabling the recreation of models that are not available from the big companies. I am familiar with this issue, having had a similar experience with another coach, which was brought to Wabu while on a trip to Zurich. Mr Carl, the owner, attempted to repair the coach, but was unable to do so, leading to my hesitance to accept this new model in it's present condition.
The box was damaged. It is possible that the impact could have caused the damage to the coach as well, but some of the actions of the seller and photos that I have since been able to magnify (zoom), suggest that the model was possibly already broken before it was shipped or even listed. The photo seems to show a space between the top edge of the brass plate and the coach shell, suggesting that it may already have been out of position when the photo was taken. A perfect model would have had the brass plate flush with the coach body with no space between.
I would accept the model if the seller refunded 2/3 of the purchase price. If it was damaged by shipping, the seller can claim the difference from the post office. I am hesitant to go through with a postal claim, because for a full damage claim, they impound the item. If they do this, I will be left with no money and no item and the shipper who already has my money, could get an extra payout from the post office.
I am very tempted to let ebay, Paypal and Visa have a go at this using my assorted coverages, because I paid for a "new" item and that is not what I received. If the damage was caused by the post office, they can compensate the seller.
As part of the discussions with Deutsche Post, USPS, ebay and PayPal I have had to describe the nature of the damage, hence my search for the best terms to describe the current value of the item as is.
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW
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Hi! Originally Posted by: mike c  "Heute wird angeboten ein neues Vitrinenmodell ohne erkennbare Mängel, keine Abbrüche..." which means " Today is offered a new Display model without any damage or broken parts" In your translation you skipped the word "erkennbar" (recognizable, discernible, visible). So "no noticeable damages". If this was your "near mint" thread, one could say "the seller closes his eyes and writes 'no visible damages'". I've also experienced eBay sellers that promised top models. Once you hold the model in your hand you can clearly see the damages - and you find the damages also on the eBay photos. Really bad when you bought from abroad as things will be a bit trickier and postages will be much higher. Tell PayPal it's not as described. Let the seller know how much postage he will have to pay to get his item back. If it got damaged during transport, but was not properly packed, then the seller is responsible for that. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 27/11/2010(UTC) Posts: 635
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Originally Posted by: Timothy  "lemon" = "idiot". It's my personal theory of irrationality. Continuing with this theme, if the deliverable was injured during transit, then perhaps the logistician was deliberately miscalculating with relative placements of both said deliverable; and shank's pony. But with reasoning unfathomable?  Historically discussions of unfulfilled promise?  Results are sanity implied.  Free will is free. ~ alternately ~the Latin caveat emptor seems to suffice. OT: Hope that provides the linguistic help that you required.  . The beautiful language may support, but likely hood is Phailboat. Weiterbildung mit diesem Text, falls die Lieferung hat stellenweise vielleicht verletzt fühlte Logistik relativ Fehlkalkulation der Platzierungen der lieferbaren und Fuß. [Sneaky] Startseite unergründlichen Grund? [Schlaf] Geschichte der unerfüllten Versprechen? [Home] [tip] Event-System impliziert. [Stark] Der freie Wille ist frei. Integer diam elit perutile est Nightly bye. |
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,226 Location: Montreal, QC
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@Mulldog, I understand Caveat Emptor. The issue is that I don't know how to say "ebay buyer protection", "paypal buyer protection" and "visa buyer protection" in latin.
How about "Caveat emptor sine contego ebayus"?
Regards
Mike C
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