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Offline Rinus  
#1 Posted : 11 May 2013 16:49:38(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi all,

Question: I've got a brand new Roco Taurus equiped with a Zimo sound decoder.

Runs great, however evytime it hits a piece of dirt, i starts all over again. Very irritating. With ESU decoders this is very simple to alter. With Zimo hoever its not to be found in the manual.

Can someone tell me which CV I have to alter to which value?

Regards,

Rinus
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 11 May 2013 17:20:50(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Sounds like same result as Lenz decoder...it starts again when it happens interrupt.
With USP cap yours locomotivs don´t need to feel interrupt.
See information at Zimo homepage and search after USP cap.
Sound decoder have connection for USP cap by soldering it.
CS3...H0...
Offline Rinus  
#3 Posted : 11 May 2013 19:46:41(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi anders,

Thanks. But i'm not looking forward to soldering a capacitaor ont the decorder. With my ESU decoders I solved it by changing a CV value. im should be possible with the Zimo's too I think.

Rinus
Offline Goofy  
#4 Posted : 11 May 2013 20:30:22(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
Hi anders,

Thanks. But i'm not looking forward to soldering a capacitaor ont the decorder. With my ESU decoders I solved it by changing a CV value. im should be possible with the Zimo's too I think.

Rinus


USP is capaciator.
If you think Zimo has CV to change yours problem...then i suggest to take look at theirs homepage and download manual of decoders.

CS3...H0...
Offline Rinus  
#5 Posted : 12 May 2013 10:24:06(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi Anders,

You are right, it has'nt .Crying

Do you have experience in fitting capacitators?

Rinus
Offline Rinus  
#6 Posted : 12 May 2013 10:48:45(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi Anders,

Found this on the Zimo site when looking for 'ELKO energiespeicher'.

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/products/energiespeicher.htm

I see you have two versions: a 16v and a 25 v depending on which decoder you have.

I think this can be found under cv7 of the decoder.

I think I'll give it a try. But before that I'll check teh decider version and check if there is enough room for the 8 x 20 mm capacitator.

Rinus
Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 12 May 2013 10:48:53(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
Hi Anders,

You are right, it has'nt .Crying

Do you have experience in fitting capacitators?

Rinus


I know myself that Zimos decoder follows with capacitor when you buy it.
You can easily go to another homepage that sells difference size of capacitors.
www.elfa.se

Zimos manual of decoder shows in what size of power consumption you can use for yours sound decoder.
There is 2 connection at sound decoder by soldering on with capacitor.
CS3...H0...
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 12 May 2013 10:55:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,332
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
They write you need 35 V capacitors if analogue AC operation is required (IMHO 35 V is on the risky side for AC analogue).

AFAIK CV 7 only reports the software version of the decoder, so compare pictures to find the hardware type and where to add the capacitor.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#9 Posted : 12 May 2013 11:27:31(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Cancalled Blushing
CS3...H0...
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Offline Rinus  
#10 Posted : 12 May 2013 14:16:37(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
They write you need 35 V capacitors if analogue AC operation is required (IMHO 35 V is on the risky side for AC analogue).


Where did you read that Tom?

I found out that there is a MX645P22 inside the Taurus

UserPostedImage

My Zimo decoder was fitted by roco in the factory and no capacitator was fitted. So I have to order a set.

According to their manual you could use the ELKSOPL Sortiment 16 V only. Since there are 2 of them (20 Elko 680 uF, 16 V, 8 x 20 mm (Durchmesser x Länge),
20 Elko 1800 uF, 16 V, 10 x 25 mm) I think at least one of the versions could be fitted somewhere into my Taurus.

Perhaps 2 smaller ones at each side of the decoder or 1 larger one at the cost of the rear cabin?

UserPostedImage

Rinus
Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 12 May 2013 14:40:52(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Lovely pictures of model!
Can you see to connection in upper left of the decoder?
That is for capacitator.
I suggest cut 2 wires enough long so you can placement yours capacitator under frame of locomotiv.
If there is no spaces of wires...borr drill a small hole to the underframe of locomotiv.
Be attention of metall dust don´t get stuck into PCP!!!
CS3...H0...
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Offline Goofy  
#12 Posted : 12 May 2013 14:49:27(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,455
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
They write you need 35 V capacitors if analogue AC operation is required (IMHO 35 V is on the risky side for AC analogue).



Not sure...there is between 16-35 V depends of the decoder type.
Problably does 16-25 V been enough.
The most important is that time of interrupt it takes to feed power to the motor.
Both Lenz and Zimo recommended to set at least 0,25 seconds.
The power consumption is at least 5 Volt out to the motor which is enough under interrupt.

CS3...H0...
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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 12 May 2013 16:13:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,332
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
They write you need 35 V capacitors if analogue AC operation is required (IMHO 35 V is on the risky side for AC analogue).


Where did you read that Tom?
It's on page 55 of the German manual (which is somewhat different from the English manual).

They have two decoder families that are prepared for capacitors: one that includes PluX interfaces (voltage is limited inside the decoder and 16 V capacitors will be enough) and the other that includes MTC interfaces (voltage is not limited, so 25 V capacitors for typical use, 35 V for analogue AC operation).

So if your loco has PluX interface and the decoder is prepared for a capacitor, then 16 V capacitors should be sufficient.

But if the decoder is not prepared for a capacitor (they have types with either PluX and MTC), then you need 25 V (digital only) or 35 V (digital and analogue). These decoders require at least an resistor to limit the inrush current of the capacitor (or a diode, a choke, and two resistors, especially for larger locomotives).

So maybe it'll help you to check pages 55 and 56 of the German manual (released April 20, 2013).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Rinus  
#14 Posted : 13 May 2013 21:17:01(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi,

Managed to get me a Zimo capacitator today. I just fitted it on to the decoder and went straight ahead for a test drive.

However the loco did not showed any improvement whatsoever. Very strange. I had high expectancies. Did some running this afternoon with other trains and all went well.

You think the capacitator had to charge for some time on the track before used or that there have some CV's in the decder to be altered when using the capacitator?

Rinus
Offline Rinus  
#15 Posted : 14 May 2013 19:24:16(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
I was thinking, should it perhaps be necesairy to activate the capacitator with F1...F10 key?

Offline Rinus  
#16 Posted : 14 May 2013 21:23:51(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi,

Think I found some thing in the CV page for Zimo decoders http://www.zimo.at/web2010/documents/cvliste_en.pdf

CV 145 Alternative methods of motor control

0-1

= 0: normal motor control (DC motor, Faulhaber, Maxxon, etc.)
= 1: special control for low DCMotoren (often Maxxon), this control
allows the connection of a capacitor (10 or 22 uF) to positive /
mass of the decoder, decoder and motor are less stressed.


CV 153 Restriction on the driving no digital signal
From software version 27.10

0-255

If a vehicle is equipped with condensers, it will run on even when
there is no contact with the track - this is the purpose of this
measure. If these capacitors are very large (gold caps, Su-percaps,
..), the time of the Next are running very long, for example, by
shutting down the plant or in an emergency Voltage OFF.
Therefore, the CV was introduced # 153, which prevents the
"eternal" proceed without external power.
CV # 153: Time in tenths of seconds (ie 0 to 25 seconds
adjustable), after which the vehicle as "No longer receive" a digital
signal stops at the latest.


I'll change cv 145 to 1 and cv 153 to 10

Rinus
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