marklin-users.net community | Forum

 
Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error
31021 C and K locomotives liveries
Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Previous Topic Next Topic
Offline mbarreto  
#1 Posted : 31 December 2012 15:47:21(UTC)
Retweet
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,334

Hi all,

The Märklin Summer new items brochure where the 31021 set was announced says that the locomotives of the set look like they did around 1922.

Usually I see the models of Württemberg steam locos in machinery green, 2 blueish grey tones or black with thin red stripes. Is the livery of the set's locos something that existed in the prototype, or is it just some nice fantasy painting so they look like other railroad company locos of the same era?

Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Back to top

Wish to join the discussion?! Login to your marklin-users.net community | Forum accountor Register a new forum account. Or Connect via Facebook  
Back to top  
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 31 December 2012 17:15:25(UTC)
Retweet
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

Hi all,

The Märklin Summer new items brochure where the 31021 set was announced says that the locomotives of the set look like they did around 1922.

Usually I see the models of Württemberg steam locos in machinery green, 2 blueish grey tones or black with thin red stripes. Is the livery of the set's locos something that existed in the prototype, or is it just some nice fantasy painting so they look like other railroad company locos of the same era?



Hi!
Well...some of Marklins steam locomotivs like C and K is queit fantasy about painting colour.
But closely to prototyp as much possible.
It´s hard to see old pictures in black and white when camera and pictures in colour did not exsist under era 1 time.
I belive that C and K did had green colour and some black in later version.
But bluesh grey tones...very hard to know about that.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Back to top
Offline mbarreto  
#3 Posted : 31 December 2012 18:20:12(UTC)
Retweet
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,334


Hi Anders,

Thanks for the reply. In all black and white photos the C seems to have a single colour, but there is a photo by Bellingrot that you can
see in http://www.marklinfan.net/classe_c.htm where it really seems to be painted in 2 colors which makes me think the 2 blueish greys were real. In that page, starting from the bottom it is the second black and white photo where we can see a consist of 2 Cs pulling an express train.



Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Back to top
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mbarreto
Offline Ian555  
#4 Posted : 31 December 2012 19:23:42(UTC)
Retweet
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,291
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

Yes, but they do look good though. ThumpUp

Ian.


UserPostedImage

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

...Smile
Back to top
Offline Western Pacific  
#5 Posted : 31 December 2012 20:36:12(UTC)
Retweet
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
The accuracy of the coulours for older models is always tricky.

If there are museum versions still around and if those have been restored, there is a possibility that documents exist showing what colour older layers of paint may have had. Likewise, if factory drawings still exist, then the look of the locomotive as it rolled out of the factory can be determined. However, if design flaws were detected and modifications made afterwards, without modifying the drawings, then that could be tricky to get right.

Another aspect is the fact that early photography wasn't always panchromatic and this is something which we in Sweden notice on old films, where the yellow cross looks much darker than the blue of the Swedish flag. (On panchromatic b/w film the blue is darker as it should be).

Research in archives may also give hints, on the other hand many such archives related to railways were located in station buildings or buildings close to them and some of them may have been lost during WWII.
Back to top
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 31 December 2012 21:18:48(UTC)
Retweet
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,451
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
The accuracy of the coulours for older models is always tricky.
Yes.
Here's a German site (long text) that researched that (I hope it works with google translation or similar tools):
http://www.hafenbahnhof....t_lokomotiven_farben.htm

Long story short: there is no evidence that these locos ever existed in green. There is no evidence to the contrary.
The same can be said about pink locos (that's what they wrote somewhere).

The paint scheme seems to be authentic. But it was valid for a few years only (and we know it takes decades till all locos change their liveries).
1922, few years after WW I (no money to waste), and those locos were rather new - therefore it's unlikely (but not impossible) that they were re-painted in 1922 according to the new paint scheme.

Some folks say that the old paint was burnt off before the new paint was applied. So examination of existing museum locos will probably not give evidence of any kind.

So enjoy the locos in their elegant liveries.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Back to top
Offline mbarreto  
#7 Posted : 31 December 2012 22:31:37(UTC)
Retweet
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,334


Thanks for the link, Tom.

I conclude it is of general understanding that these Epoch I liveries may have existed or not. Probably most for sure existed, and if
not, they could have existed.

They look stunning.

Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Back to top
Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 01 January 2013 10:58:39(UTC)
Retweet
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
About C and K locomotivs...underframe and wheels was in black colour too.
Preussen did had wine red wheels.
While Bayern with dark green colour on the wheels.
Standard red wheels i´m not sure about C and K locomotivs.
I have an Brawas steam locomotiv name Hh which i´m not sure if colour is correct!?



Goofy attached the following image(s):
DSC_0001.JPG
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Back to top
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 01 January 2013 11:10:34(UTC)
Retweet
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,695
Location: United Kingdom
Nice engine, Goofy.

The model is Hh K.W.St.E?
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Back to top
Offline mbarreto  
#10 Posted : 01 January 2013 23:05:48(UTC)
Retweet
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,334
Hi Anders,

Thanks for the photo.
Your Hh is great. With Brawa Württemberg wagins it is a show.

What was the material you used to fill the space between tracks?


Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Back to top
Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 02 January 2013 12:25:36(UTC)
Retweet
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Nice engine, Goofy.

The model is Hh K.W.St.E?


Correct!

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Back to top
Offline Goofy  
#12 Posted : 02 January 2013 12:27:19(UTC)
Retweet
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,278
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
Hi Anders,

Thanks for the photo.
Your Hh is great. With Brawa Württemberg wagins it is a show.

What was the material you used to fill the space between tracks?




Woodland Scenics ballast fine buff...same on the tracks too between sleepers.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Back to top
Offline NZMarklinist  
#13 Posted : 09 January 2013 07:36:13(UTC)
Retweet
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Yes, but they do look good though. ThumpUp

Ian.

...Smile


Very Nice Ian, ThumpUp

Of all threads this would be an appropriate place to post a few pics of those lovely W, C & K Loks, some of their other versions too for comparison if you have them Wink


Looks Like Goofeys Lok is a Klass 58, in an earlier version, am I correct Anders ?

Edited by user 11 January 2013 02:52:55(UTC)  | Reason: add comment

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Back to top
Offline jeehring  
#14 Posted : 10 January 2013 09:02:16(UTC)
Retweet
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
...according a friend of mine who was fond of German/central Europe railways, some of the most accurate information about former paint schemes of German Loks, could be found into ex-East Germany documentations (DDR). Some were edited, some weren't...
I wonder if all ex DR archives have been completely/deeply exploited yet ...
I guess there is still some research to do, probably also out of ex-DDR , somewhere near Moscow, or Warsovia...or in Ukrainia...Confused
( I think so , just because into my "associative life", we recently received from Russia some archives about us (!) that had been stolen during... WW2 ! )
Back to top
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jeehring
Offline Ian555  
#15 Posted : 18 January 2013 12:06:07(UTC)
Retweet
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,291
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

I'm having a Weekend Special focusing on Set 31021 on BWII this coming weekend, so plenty more photo's then.

Ian.


UserPostedImage

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


UserPostedImage

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


UserPostedImage

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


....
Back to top
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Ian555
Offline RayF  
#16 Posted : 18 January 2013 13:29:23(UTC)
Retweet
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Gorgeous locos, Ian! ThumpUp

That K would look fantastic at the head of a long train of Era I wagons.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Back to top
Offline Ian555  
#17 Posted : 18 January 2013 14:09:27(UTC)
Retweet
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,291
Location: Scotland
Hi Ray,

Thanks. ThumpUp

Ian.
Back to top
Offline NZMarklinist  
#18 Posted : 18 January 2013 14:31:40(UTC)
Retweet
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Hi Ian,

Your C & K look very nice, great photos. ThumpUp The colour looks quite brownish, I thought they were green, but pleased it's a different colour from the P10, so a practical idea for you to have one of those too Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Back to top
Offline Ian555  
#19 Posted : 18 January 2013 15:20:21(UTC)
Retweet
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,291
Location: Scotland
Hi Glen,

Thanks. ThumpUp

Ian.
Back to top
Offline Osterthun  
#20 Posted : 10 February 2013 22:46:10(UTC)
Retweet
Osterthun

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 111
Location: Netherlands
Even though the Era 1 period contains mostly black&white pictures, as stated above, the color scheme of Märklin 31021 looks more Prussian than domestic Württemberg.
Be it a very fine scheme indeed...

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Frits Osterthun (c) 2012
Back to top
WWW
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Osterthun
Offline mbarreto  
#21 Posted : 10 February 2013 23:40:15(UTC)
Retweet
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,334
Originally Posted by: Osterthun Go to Quoted Post
Even though the Era 1 period contains mostly black&white pictures, as stated above, the color scheme of Märklin 31021 looks more Prussian than domestic Württemberg.
Be it a very fine scheme indeed...
...



Your photos are always very very good!
These locos look super in this color scheme and the green and red choosen by Märklin, imho, look better than most of the prussian models... (when I put the Brawa prussian S9 side by side with these C and K, my favorite is the C).


Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Back to top
Offline bulenty  
#22 Posted : 16 September 2013 12:42:32(UTC)
Retweet
bulenty

Turkey   
Joined: 10/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 38
Locos seen excellent.
How are their sounds?
Back to top
Users browsing this topic
Guest (4)
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2025, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.836 seconds.