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Offline jaraz  
#1 Posted : 27 December 2012 17:51:27(UTC)
jaraz

United States   
Joined: 27/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Phoenix, AZ
I just received a very generous set of Marklin Locomotives, Cars and Other accessories from a family friend to give to my boys (8 and 5) for Christmas. Let's be honest I'll enjoy them just as much, if not more, than they will.

Since this is something new to me I thought we would just start by setting up the basic set Marklin HO SET-S 2937A. The set comes with enough tracks to make an oval shape with one track having a red and brown wire, a Blue Transformer, and 1 Locomotive (pictures posted below). I assume the red and brown wires plug into the color marked ports on the back of the Transformer but after setting everything up the Loco just won't move.

I know the Loco is getting power because it's light comes on and it even sounds like it's trying to move. Not knowing a thing about electricity I would almost say it's just not getting enough power.

After reading a bunch of posts on this amazing forum I thought I would try and post my issue here to see if anyone can help me get this simple track setup before trying to find someone locally. I'm also looking forward to learning a bit more how we can get multiple trains running with all the accessories. It looks like we have some fun things to play with like 4 additional Locomotives, 20 something Cars, signals, a remote controlled turtable, bridge and automated grade crossing.

Pictures below. Please let me know if you need any additional information, images or videos to help troubleshoot the issue. I appreciate your time and willingness to help. My boys (and me) are very excited.


UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

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UserPostedImage

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UserPostedImage
Offline tulit  
#2 Posted : 27 December 2012 17:56:41(UTC)
tulit

Canada   
Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by: jaraz Go to Quoted Post
I just received a very generous set of Marklin Locomotives, Cars and Other accessories from a family friend to give to my boys (8 and 5) for Christmas. Let's be honest I'll enjoy them just as much, if not more, than they will.

Since this is something new to me I thought we would just start by setting up the basic set Marklin HO SET-S 2937A. The set comes with enough tracks to make an oval shape with one track having a red and brown wire, a Blue Transformer, and 1 Locomotive (pictures posted below). I assume the red and brown wires plug into the color marked ports on the back of the Transformer but after setting everything up the Loco just won't move.

I know the Loco is getting power because it's light comes on and it even sounds like it's trying to move. Not knowing a thing about electricity I would almost say it's just not getting enough power.

After reading a bunch of posts on this amazing forum I thought I would try and post my issue here to see if anyone can help me get this simple track setup before trying to find someone locally. I'm also looking forward to learning a bit more how we can get multiple trains running with all the accessories. It looks like we have some fun things to play with like 4 additional Locomotives, 20 something Cars, signals, a remote controlled turtable, bridge and automated grade crossing.

Pictures below. Please let me know if you need any additional information, images or videos to help troubleshoot the issue. I appreciate your time and willingness to help. My boys (and me) are very excited.




Try turning the wheel by hand (run your finger along the bottom). If it hasn't run in a long time it's probable the oil in the locomotive has turned thick (almost glue like). You might need to pull it apart, clean and relubricate.
It could be the motor brushes need adjustment or replacement as well.

Edited by moderator 27 December 2012 21:35:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Renato  
#3 Posted : 27 December 2012 18:17:21(UTC)
Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Hi and welcome to the forum.

Most of the times the lubricating oil has hardened and the locomotive is not able to move.

Be very careful when trying to move by hand the wheels in order to not damage the plastic gear inside the loco.

My suggestions: remove the plastic body of the loco by unscrewing the screw on the top of the body, then remove the two screws on the plastic plate with the two brushes (remove them before!).

Take out the rotor, clean the axle and lubricate it.

Then put all the pieces as mounted before and your loco will run as new.

I hope this will help you.

Cheers

Renato
Offline jaraz  
#4 Posted : 27 December 2012 19:27:58(UTC)
jaraz

United States   
Joined: 27/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Thank you both for such a quick reply. I will give it a try and let you know the outcome. Thanks again.
Offline steventrain  
#5 Posted : 27 December 2012 20:08:36(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,697
Location: United Kingdom
Hi jaraz,

Welcome to the forum.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline jaraz  
#6 Posted : 27 December 2012 20:43:14(UTC)
jaraz

United States   
Joined: 27/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Ok. So I gave it a try and to nobody's fault but my own I probably did more damage than good. A few extra pieces, springs and things, came out of the train while taking it a part. Although I got most of the pieces back where they belong (I think) I'm still not able to clean or move anything that will allow me to get the wheels to move.

Here is a picture of the loco before I took it apart;

UserPostedImage

and here it is taken apart;

UserPostedImage



I think it might be time to take it in somewhere. Anyone know of a place in Phoenix, AZ that deals with Marklin sets?
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jaraz
Offline kbvrod  
#7 Posted : 27 December 2012 20:58:52(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Originally Posted by: jaraz Go to Quoted Post
Ok. So I gave it a try and to nobody's fault but my own I probably did more damage than good. A few extra pieces, springs and things, came out of the train while taking it a part. Although I got most of the pieces back where they belong (I think) I'm still not able to clean or move anything that will allow me to get the wheels to move.

Here is a picture of the loco before I took it apart;

UserPostedImage




Hi jaraz,all,

Welcome!ThumpUp

See the above photo,....see those 'springs'/coils? They are holding the motor brushes,the one on the left,...!Something wrong there!

A few tips for the future,.....notes on what your doing.Keep taking photos until your get use to what you are seeing.

Do some cleaning as this not a new set,various agents can be used.
Check all mechanical parts.
Check all wires/soldering.

Do not give up!BigGrin

Dr D
Offline cookee_nz  
#8 Posted : 27 December 2012 21:32:14(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,999
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: jaraz Go to Quoted Post
Ok. So I gave it a try and to nobody's fault but my own I probably did more damage than good. A few extra pieces, springs and things, came out of the train while taking it a part. Although I got most of the pieces back where they belong (I think) I'm still not able to clean or move anything that will allow me to get the wheels to move.

Here is a picture of the loco before I took it apart; (snip)

I think it might be time to take it in somewhere. Anyone know of a place in Phoenix, AZ that deals with Marklin sets?


Hi there, (presume Jaraz is your preferred name?),

In the 'taken apart' state, can you confirm that turning the motor armature by hand also turns the gears and wheels?

With the armature also out, the entire gear-train should be very free and turn easily.

The fact that right at the start you said the lights come on and it 'sounds' like it's trying to do something generally indicates the electrics are ok and I too would have opted for gummy oil in the gears/wheels.

Just this week I have been servicing about half a dozen locos of varying sizes (including a 3000 like yours) and every single one of them was seized, hardly surprising as they had all been packed away and not run since the early 60's. All were very clean, and the brushes in good order so I felt a full strip-down to be an overkill.

Symptoms were identical on all, place on track, apply power, lights on, motor hums.

Put a small drop of oil on the armature bearings, gears and axles, and then by hand just slight turned the first gear off the armature, quite a bit of resistance initially then freed up.

Placed a non-driving wheel onto the track, and slowly lowered down until the pickup shoe made contact and the motor very slowly started turning. Within probably 15 seconds or so the oil had circulated, the motor had picked up speed, brush sparking had reduced considerably and after about 30 seconds I was able to run around the layout reliably and smoothly in both directions.

If your wheels are now free, but you still have no motion, are you still hearing it 'try' to run?

If so, it 'could' be pointing to a possible motor fault and your degree of technical skill will determine whether you can tackle this or not. There are further checks you could do but you'd really need a multi-meter to do them, and the more handling you do of the motor the higher the risk of one of the delicate wires breaking and then you really do have a problem.

Regards from 'down-under'

Steve
Wellington
NZ
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Webmaster  
#9 Posted : 27 December 2012 21:37:37(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
There should be some minimal lateral play if you try to (looking at the bottom of the loco, turned upside down) push the wheels/axles sideways...

If the wheels axles are completely stuck, you could try to put some WD-40 or such to the area inside the wheels & gears where the axles go through the metal frame. Let it rest for a day and try again...


I had one loco once where the axles & gears were completely stuck, so I had to tap the wheel axle & gear axle ends (at the wheel/gear centre on the axle, do not tap the wheel/gear itself) with a hammer and a pointy metal piece - the kind you use for marking drill holes on metal sheets... After many taps in both lateral directions & WD-40, the axles finally loosened up and the gears/wheels could move freely again... Still don't know if it was a wheel or gear axle that was the main problem, they all seemed dead stuck inside the matal chassis...

This was a very desperate measure, but it was the only thing I could do since most axles were glued inside the chassis due to hardened bad oil...

The advice to try to roll the wheels by hand is ok, but do not use excessive force since you will then turn the wheel around the axle and that will get the "quartering" out of shape and the loco will be wobbling a lot along the tracks... If the motor is disassembled as in one of your pictures, there should virtually no resistance while turning the wheels as Steve also mentioned...

I know others will have much better advice than my brute force & WD-40 method, but it worked for me... After some patient waiting & repetition for 3 days...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline jaraz  
#10 Posted : 27 December 2012 22:15:08(UTC)
jaraz

United States   
Joined: 27/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Sorry, always used the screen name Jaraz but you can call me Jared.

For one I am so grateful for all the support. What a great community.

In response to Steve's post I was finally able to rotate the gears and wheels by turning them manually by hand but they do not move easily or very freely. I looked through the box of stuff I have and I don't have any of the oil the german manual says to use so I could try the WD40 unless that is not recommended by others.

Meanwhile, it looks I have broken some of the soldering. Is this something I can fix quite easily?

I should probably take this one step at a time...

First, is it ok to use the WD40 to get the gears and wheels to move more freely or should I purchase some special oil?

Next, is it ok to attempt to solder the wires as illustrated in the image below or am I in over my head now?

UserPostedImage

Thanks again for everyone's help. I feel like I'm getting so close.
Offline 3rail4life  
#11 Posted : 27 December 2012 23:41:25(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Hi Jared,

It does look like you might be close, the wheels should move with little resistance when the motor brushes are removed, if they are still tight you may need to clean more, you could use the WD 40 for the cleaning, I use a paint safe solvent spray for automotive maf sensor cleaning followed by compressed air to remove the oil/solvent residue, some have also recommended cigarette lighter fluid like Ronsonal. The oil wells/resovoirs on the armature shaft are probably clogged with decayed sponge material and need to be cleaned out and replaced with 2 small pieces of fine foam sponge material like used on paint brushes. For lubrication I would recommend using the Märklin oil, Labelle 107 or maybe sewing machine oil if you do not have a train/hobby store in your area. The soldering should be easy, use a small well tinned tip, pre-tin the wires and just heat and touch them to the solder pads on the reverse solenoid with the iron. If you have any more trouble with it you could just send it to me, in CA for the cost of postage, I am pretty sure I get it running for you, just send me a pm.

Gordon

Offline cookee_nz  
#12 Posted : 28 December 2012 02:03:37(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,999
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jared,

It does look like you might be close, the wheels should move with little resistance when the motor brushes are removed, if they are still tight you may need to clean more, you could use the WD 40 for the cleaning, I use a paint safe solvent spray for automotive maf sensor cleaning followed by compressed air to remove the oil/solvent residue, some have also recommended cigarette lighter fluid like Ronsonal. The oil wells/resovoirs on the armature shaft are probably clogged with decayed sponge material and need to be cleaned out and replaced with 2 small pieces of fine foam sponge material like used on paint brushes. For lubrication I would recommend using the Märklin oil, Labelle 107 or maybe sewing machine oil if you do not have a train/hobby store in your area. The soldering should be easy, use a small well tinned tip, pre-tin the wires and just heat and touch them to the solder pads on the reverse solenoid with the iron. If you have any more trouble with it you could just send it to me, in CA for the cost of postage, I am pretty sure I get it running for you, just send me a pm.

Gordon



Ooops, just what I was afraid of, those wires are quite delicate.

Unless you are practiced at soldering and have access to a good soldering iron, I'd cut your losses and send it off to Gordon for his very kind offer. We can understand your enthusiasm and eagerness to get it going, but unfortunately it seems to be getting more involved at each step. Blushing

Those reverse units are easily damaged (sometimes beyond repair) if the solder pads are overheated, and you also run the risk of the wires snapping at the other end (field magnet) which is also double-plus ungood.

Not meaning to under-estimate your skills of course, by all means give it a go if you feel confident, after all, even if the reverse unit does get damaged, it would probably be cheaper to replace it with a Digital Decoder and then you open up a whole new world of fun. BigGrin

But it does seem all along that your problem was simply seized gears/wheels save for a drop of oil and persistence in freeing them up, and would only have need the loco body removed, nothing else. Sadly, sometimes the temptation or advice to just take it all apart is a bit extreme, especially without first understanding what you are aiming to achieve.

As for WD-40, this has been discussed a number of times here before and personally, I'd avoid it for this purpose. It has its uses, but does tend to leave a residue of its own. If you can get some sewing machine or other small/light machine oil it would be fine for that little loco.

If you do intend to proceed with repair, I would strongly recommend you download the Marklin Service Manual and have a read. (The site is in Italian, the manual is in English). Look for this icon...
cookee_nz attached the following image(s):
LV_Service_Manual.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline jaraz  
#13 Posted : 28 December 2012 02:05:44(UTC)
jaraz

United States   
Joined: 27/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Just wanted to give everyone that provided so much help today a quick update.

Although I was unable to get the original Locomotive running because of the soldering I'll need to do I was able to use all your feedback and recommendations to get 2 of the other Locomotives operational. My boys loved it and are looking forward to setting up an even bigger track tomorrow. I'm sure I'll be back online at some point asking for help with connecting all the other pieces like the signals, grade crossing, turntable, etc. Not even sure I can hook all that up to the Transformer I have or if I'll need other sources of power.

Anyway, thanks again for all your help!!!

Jared
Offline cookee_nz  
#14 Posted : 28 December 2012 03:44:24(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,999
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: jaraz Go to Quoted Post
Just wanted to give everyone that provided so much help today a quick update.

Although I was unable to get the original Locomotive running because of the soldering I'll need to do I was able to use all your feedback and recommendations to get 2 of the other Locomotives operational. My boys loved it and are looking forward to setting up an even bigger track tomorrow. I'm sure I'll be back online at some point asking for help with connecting all the other pieces like the signals, grade crossing, turntable, etc. Not even sure I can hook all that up to the Transformer I have or if I'll need other sources of power.

Anyway, thanks again for all your help!!!

Jared


Great to hear Jared, I guess if there was to be a 'sacrificial cow' in your learning curve, you could not have picked better than the 3000, they don't come much simpler than that.

And 2 out of 3 ain't bad and if your boys loved it then that's what it's all about ThumpUp

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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