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Offline H0  
#1 Posted : 23 December 2012 23:04:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

A while ago (a few months ago Blushing ) the question came up how long coaches look on turnouts.

I'll start with a few pictures followed by a li'l bit of theory.

For the first series of pictures I used two 24912 with one 24070 in between so simulate a pair of slim turnouts.
Here with a 316 mm and a 303 mm coach:
316 mm/303 mm on slim turnout

Here with two 24 cm Schürzenwägen:
Two Schürzenwägen

And now two coaches in the "new longer length" of 28.2 cm (I'll have to check the door-window of the green coach):
New longer length.

And the "old shorter length" (27 cm):
27 cm

And finally two tin-plate coaches (24 cm):
Tin-plate coaches 24 cm


And now I used two 24224 to simulate a pair of standard R2 turnouts.
First with two 303 mm coaches:
303 mm coaches

The the Schürzenwägen again:
Schürzenwägen 24 cm

The new longer length (28.2 cm):
New longer length

The 27 cm class:
27 cm

And finally 24 cm tin-plate coaches:
24 cm tin-plate coaches


And now some theory:
The clearance needed on the outside of curves (and the gap between coaches on turnouts) depends on the distance between buffers and the pivot point.
The 303 mm coaches, the Schürzenwägen, and the tin-plate coaches have the pivot point in the middle of the truck.
The 27 cm coaches and the 28.2 cm coaches have the pivot point offset towards the centre of the coach. This reduces the clearance needed on the inside of the curves (I guess this is the intention behind the asymmetrical trucks), but increases the clearance needed on the outside and the gap between coaches on curves.
Therefore on turnouts the 303 mm coaches do not look worse than the 27 or 28.2 cm coaches.

The tin-plate coaches have no close couplers and no guiding mechanism. Therefore the 24 cm Schürzenwägen with close couplers have a smaller gap between the coaches.

I did not check yet how much clearance the long coaches need on the inside of curves - and how that compares to other Märklin products.

BTW: Märklin announced 303 mm coaches in the Summer New Items Brochure 2011, but they are not available yet (#43597).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline Danlake  
#2 Posted : 24 December 2012 07:22:58(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Thanks Tom!

Very interesting.

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 24 December 2012 08:52:56(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,020
I suggest you shall take pictures at the top of above models to focus in better way.
My turnouts are 284 mm in lenght.
Theoretical frog angle:9 degrees
Angle at points exit:12 degrees
I use short era 1 passenger cars and wagons too.
It looks very realism by curve turnouts.

Goofy attached the following image(s):
DSC_0001.JPG
DSC_0002.JPG
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 25 December 2012 02:52:04(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
Maerklin already makes some 1:87 models, including the SBB lightsteel coaches (43360/61/70/71/80/81/90/91/43400/01/43410) as well as many coaches with prototype length under 26.4m. The reduced scale length is only applied to longer coaches like the UIC-X, UIC-Z and other coaches made since the 1960s.
The 43597 double deck coaches would be the first full length coaches (not reduced) of a long frame coach type.

Regards

Mike C

Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 25 December 2012 08:49:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Mike!
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The reduced scale length is only applied to longer coaches
The word "only" makes this statement untrue because they even made (and maybe still make) short two-axle coaches at reduced lengths.
See this thread:
https://www.marklin-user...ength-Scale-Mystery.aspx

And they also made (and still make) locomotives at reduced lengths.

The Schürzenwägen shown in the first post are 1:87 (24 cm). They are from a Trix coach set that also includes a 21 cm baggage coach in 1:87 (as mentioned in the new rolling stock thread).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline trainbuff  
#6 Posted : 09 February 2013 18:03:34(UTC)
trainbuff


Joined: 26/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 507
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!

A while ago (a few months ago Blushing ) the question came up how long coaches look on turnouts.

I'll start with a few pictures ...

24 cm tin-plate coaches



Nice yellow c-track. Why did you paint it? Or did you buy it?

tia
Offline 60904  
#7 Posted : 09 February 2013 18:40:21(UTC)
60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 315
Originally Posted by: trainbuff Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!

A while ago (a few months ago Blushing ) the question came up how long coaches look on turnouts.

I'll start with a few pictures ...

24 cm tin-plate coaches



Nice yellow c-track. Why did you paint it? Or did you buy it?

tia


Didn't you read in the new items brochure that from now on all C Track wil be delivered in this colour. Cool
Greetings
Martin
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 09 February 2013 18:50:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: trainbuff Go to Quoted Post
Nice yellow c-track. Why did you paint it? Or did you buy it?
I bought it that way, Märklin made it like that (#78095, RRP €19.95, clearance sale street price €7.95). It's an attempt to bring our hobby back into children's playrooms - the dark grey track looks so dull.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 09 February 2013 20:10:27(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: trainbuff Go to Quoted Post
Nice yellow c-track. Why did you paint it? Or did you buy it?
I bought it that way, Märklin made it like that (#78095, RRP €19.95, clearance sale street price €7.95). It's an attempt to bring our hobby back into children's playrooms - the dark grey track looks so dull.


the colour track is idea for hidden yard, in long tunnel etc.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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