Hi Mark,all,
A very simple overview:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De...eichsbahn_(East_Germany)

The former DR has become much more popular modeling-wise in recent years.
Gützold(now kaput) Piko,Roco and FL produce DR loks(some in 3-rail)

Dr D

Mark and Brandon,

One reason for why there are not so many DR models is the fact that the whole issue of GDR was very politically sensitive in the Federal Republic of Germany before re-unification and there were people who wouldn't speak of GDR (or DDR), but rather speak of the Sowjet Besatzungszone.

Given that the West German market was one of the, if not the largest model railway market in Europe, suppliers like Märklin preferred to take a politically correct position and not produce DR models.

This has changed after re-unification. Now new and old states of the Federal Republic of Germany go towards a common future, but their history is different. This opens up for a new situation where it suddenly has become politically correct to include DR. As an example the Deutsche Bahn-Museum in Nürnberg used to deal only with DB for the period after 1945. This has changed, now also DR is dealt with. Another example is Märklin model 3335 of DR's BR 254 which was the computer number DR gave to E94, which was in the Märklin product program 1993 - 98.

Mark,

Have found a couple by means of Google and Ebay.de.

See:
Maerklin 3449 Br204 in version DR.
Maerklin 36321 Ludmilla diesel in version DR.
Maerklin 4376 coach in version DR.

In respect of coaches,remember they should have the white letters DR on the sides,contrary the yellow eagle emblems for the DRG versions.
I am sure there are many more to be found,if you know where to look.
Tomorrow is Sunday,i might as well spend a lost hour on it!

Paul.

Edited by moderator 30 October 2012 20:14:44(UTC)  | Reason: Restored by Webmaster

Hi all,
Please be aware that there are differences between DRG and DDR models!
The Maerklin 39192 E19 Electric in version DR.Is NOT DDR.


Dr D

Hi Pål,all,

>Sometime's Märklin use DR and sometime's they use DR (DDR) What is the difference ? Time period (epoche) ?<

Epoch,...

Epoch 2 DRG (DR)Germany
Epoch 3 DDR (DR)East Germany

Dr D

Thank's for reply but Märklin use DR for epoche III as for example in the new 26586.
So will this say that DR (DDR) like 4879 is epoche II ?

Correct!
Any loco with the eagle emblem on the sides and/or the noses is DRG,not DR from East Germany (DDR).

Paul.

Edited by moderator 30 October 2012 20:16:37(UTC)  | Reason: Restored by Webmaster

Wow ... Lots of great info. I will looking up nearly every suggestion in the coming week and get back to you.

I am trying to work out the historical background for a short film idea on Era III/IV rail history, using Model railways to tell the story.

Does anyone have a good indicator of the social life of the rail workers in East Germany too?
Where would one find such information? (My lack of real German skills is a drawback.)

Thanks again!!!
- Mark

Mark,

See also electric loco Br212 in DR livery as Maerklin 3442 or 3742 (digital).
Color is red with on the sides in big white figures 212 005-3.
Shows in the M catalogue for 1996/97.

Also a rather special version of the DR Br212 as "Weisse Lady",Maerklin 34411 (Delta only).

Saw a near to new DR Br212 in digital version in a M shop in Rotterdam for less than Euro 140.-.
The Br212 3742 as mentioned above costs around Euro 110,- on Ebay.de.
Cheers,
Paul.

Edited by moderator 30 October 2012 20:17:31(UTC)  | Reason: Restored by Webmaster

Mark,

A clip of DDR steamtrains,note: in May 1981!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=...8fbI&feature=related

Paul.

Edited by moderator 30 October 2012 20:18:09(UTC)  | Reason: Restored by Webmaster

I see other posts on East German trains popping up and I am very thankful.

If you don't mind I will include the links here to help keep track of all this useful material.

https://www.marklin-user...n-in-DR--DDR--style.aspx

https://www.marklin-user...st-German-DDR-style.aspx

Hello,

I may be able to offer some help since I was born in Rostock in 1978. One specialty of the Deutsche Reichsbahn (DR) is that steam engines have been used much longer than for instance in West Germany. Additionally, the shift to electric traction took longer in the GDR due to the lack of materials for the catenary. So typical (but of course depending on your time horizon) steam engines and diesel engines have been used by the DR.

to get a feeling for the DR, here is a nice video of steam power in the GDR (forget the audio, it is about something else in in German):



Or here a video of the main station in my place of birth (though it is in 1990, but the feeling of the 1980s in the GDRs is stil there (changes have been very, very slow in the GDR)):



If you have any specific question, I try to help or find information for you. Unfortunately, a lot of info will be in German. But let's see.

Best,

Tim

EDIT: I just see that you are mainly interested in the era 1945-1975. I think it will be difficult to find layouts for that specific era. Usually, model railroaders with focus on the DR model the 1980s sometimes the 1970s. Here is a layout description with a lot of details. Though in German, but the pictures speak for themselves:
http://www.nexusboard.ne...2408&threadid=310662

Here a video advertising the work for the DR in the 1950s. The end is funny: "This is the contribution of the German (that means East German) Railway workers to fulfill the 5-year-plan which brings us peace, unity and so far unknown prosperity" :-) Given some more time, I may translate the audio.

Not quite. They used 1xx for diesel, 2xx for electric locos - and all other digits for steam locos. Thus only few steamers (18 => 02, 19 => 04, 22 => 39, 24 => 37) needed new numbers.

While diesel and electric locos had numbers according to the "abc def-g" pattern, it was "ab cdef-g" for steamers. For steamers. the "c" normally indicated how the loco was powered.

Hi Timothy,all,

>As for models, you may also look for Roco engines<

Nor Piko,Gützold or FL!

>What is also special for East German steam engines is that engines did undergo a refit program (called reconstruction and therefor engines are sometimes called "Reko" engines). You can identify these steam engines easily by the special construction just in front of the smoke pipe (is that the correct English term?).<

Good point!Yes,the 'rebuilds' in English are "Reko" loks,near the smoke stack.


Dr D

Hi Tom,all,
Thanks! It's seems that the two railroads had differences in classifications as well as signaling :-)

Dr D

....here is a picture of the Express train model "Berlin-Leipzig" with an E 18 and shurzenwagen, all in DR livery:
http://medienpdb.maerkli...g/grossansicht/26509.jpg
(Marklin picture)

one additional set of 2 cars was available ...I love this train.

Hi all,
Should we discuss the differences between the DB and DR?

Dr D

Mark,

there is a dealer in NJ who has a lot of Eastern European brands in his lineup. You can find more details about the selection here: http://www.eurotrainhobby.com

At the present, there are a couple of companies who are becoming more active in Eastern European models, including Heris, LSM (more modern stuff), as well as Roco. I guess that these companies are trying to obtain the market share formerly taken by Guetzold.

Brawa also has some 1960s former DR electrics, which were basically the East German answer to the E10/E39. Maerklin and Roco have both had models of more recent models of the 143/242/212 class.

Piko also made loks (Br 180 Skoda, etc) as well as coaches.

It was very interesting to see how the East Germans came up with many designs as response to West German innovations, how some productions were cancelled and the production equipment moved to other East Bloc countries according to Soviet central planning of manufacture. The DDR versions of the V160 and V200 never went into large scale production and a lot of the equipment used to build the prototypes was taken to Russia and used to build the Lludmilla and Taigatrommel classes which went on to become the Eastern Bloc workhorses.

Regards

Mike C

Dr D is very right about the USSR and the DR. For many double-tracked lines, the Russians took away one track and transported the material to the USSR (keep in mind that the USSR was in some areas completely devastated by the German Army). Some of the former double-tracked lines have not been reconstructed with the missing second track until the 1990s. During all times, the DR had problems with getting enough material to rebuild, newly build or even to maintain there infrastructure. That's why the maximum speed was not more than 120 km/h (with only few exceptions). And at the end of the 1980s, the infrastructure was in very bad condition due to not enough maintenance and, you should know that, heavy use of the DR. Rail traffic was very high in the GDR because government saw that transportation by rail is much more efficient than by trucks. In all parts of live in the GDR, the lack of resources and materials was a heavy burden.

I have found an interesting website with a lot of pictures of DR rolling stock: click.
Best,

Tim

I agree with the view that we should not get into politics. Another point which I also agree with is the fact that DR (and DDR) had to make do with much less funds than the west.

For Sweden this lack of funds, in particular western currencies, was noticed, since one important export route was goods sent by train via the Trelleborg - Sassnitz ferry route.
I have read about instructions to people working at the Trelleborg F ferry station to inspect all freight wagons in order to not send then onto the ferry if it was likely that for instance brake blocks needed replacing soon. The reason behind this instruction was the fact that DR was very keen on inspecting all wagons that came to the DR network and if any problems were found, real or invented, take the wagon out of the train and repair it and last but not least invoice the Swedish State Railways and thereby generate sales in a western currency.

From what I've read this was bad for two reasons, first the cargo on the wagon was delayed and second the level of the invoices were such that it was much more economical to have repairs done in Sweden and this even with the relatively high salaries paid here.

In another post by NS1200, there is a link to a youtube video about DR's VT 18.16. This type of train was actually used between Berlin and Malmö (1968 - 1971), but the DR wanted to run them all the way to Stockholm some 600 km further north. This would have put SJ in a position where SJ had to pay the DR for a very large km compensation for DR trains running in Sweden since there were no Swedish passenger coaches going to Berlin at that time.

On the other hand when I was younger and when there were no Märklin DR wagons, I felt that I couldn't make prototypically correct Swedish freight trains since it wasn't uncommon to see DR wagons in them.

The E11/E42 were the DDR response to the E10/E41 of the DB. It is true that in the years after the war, the Soviets helped themselves to a lot of the infrastructure, which was used to rebuild the USSR itself at the expense of the occupied zone. Starting in 1949, this changed as East Germany was transformed from an occupied zone to the German Democratic Republic (Deutsche Demokratische Republik or DDR). In the 1950s, new tractive material was required, especially for the main lines on the Leipzig-Dresden and Leipzig-Halle corridors. The result was the E11/E42. These locomotive classes were the backbones of the DR's electric fleet until the 1980s, when the new class 143/243 were introduced.
As far as diesel traction, DDR manufacturers introduced the BR 118, which was intended as the DR equivalent of the V160 and V200 classes of the DB. The 118 (later V 180) was built in reasonable numbers after a slow start. In the 1970s, when additional loks were required, the Soviet master plan blocked the production of new loks of this type in the DDR, so follow up production was made at plants in Romania. 200 of these loks were made in Romania, but their performance was by far inferior to the earlier DDR manufactured 118s.
The Soviet master plan called for large diesel loks to be made at Soviet plants, so the DDR had no option other than to order and implement Soviet diesel loks, including the V 200 (M62) of which under 400 of these Ukraine manufactured loks, known as "Taigatrommel" or Taiko drums and the V 130 of which 873 went into service with the DR, commonly known as the "Lludmilla"
In the late 1970s, the DR required additional electric loks for the main lines around Leipzig and Dresden, and it was decided to develop a new locomotives, the first, BR 250, today DB class 155 and the second, similar to the BR 111 of the DB. The decision was made to develop the 143/243, which was very successful and went on to become the DB class 212 after reunification. Those DR loks are still in use, mostly in Regional traffic today.
The 143/243/212 and 250/155 went on to see service not only in former East Germany, but also on the rest of the DB network. The reason for this was that there was little money available after reunification to pursue the electrification of many lines in the former DDR, so as IC and IR services were taken over on the lines that had been electrified lines by BR 103, 111 and 120.1 loks, the former DR loks that had been used to pull the top of the line DR Express trains could now be used to pull regional and commuter trains on many other parts of the network. This was accelerated with the introduction of ICE service between West Germany and Berlin and the integration of Leipzig, Dresden and a few other cities to that network.
Today, the main lines between Probstzella and Berlin, Frankfurt and Dresden, Hamburg and Berlin and Hannover and Berlin are all electrified and part of the Intercity and Eurocity networks.
Around 2000, the majority of the Taigatrommels were withdrawn from service. A number of the V 130s were upgraded for passenger service on non-electrified routes and others were upgraded for heavy freight traffic. Many of those loks are still in use with DB Regio and DB Cargo today.
The only other former Eastern bloc lok that was used in reasonable numbers was the Czech (Skoda) built class 230 (DB BR 180), which was used in the Dresden region and later between Prag and Berlin. The Czech design was chosen because the DDR's only plant making electric locomotives was busy with the 250/143/243 and could not undertake production of a dual voltage design for the DR and CD at that time.
The 180 is still in use today, mostly on the same routes between Berlin and the Czech and Polish borders.

The German wikipedia pages provide information for all these lok classes. Another useful source of information if you can find it is back issues of the Berlin based Bahnprofil or Eisenbahn Illustrierte.

The E11/E41 are available in model from Brawa and Piko
The 143/243/212 are available in model from Maerklin and Roco
The 250/155 are available from Roco and Guetzold
The 230/180 is available from Piko
The 118/119 is available from Guetzold
The Taigatrommel and Lludmilla are available from Roco (both), Guetzold (Taigatrommel), Piko (Lludmilla) and Maerklin (Lludmilla)

DR coaches to match these loks are available from Guetzold, Sachsenmodelle/Tillig, Piko and Roco, to name a few.

Regards

Mike C

Deleted by user.

Edited by user 28 October 2012 12:11:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Mark,

Buy the Berlin to Leipzig express train!
If you do not buy it,i will!
This is a very interesting Maerklin model i think.
It is made up of a loco and coaches used by the Reichsbahn between 1933 and 1945,thence repainted into DR (DDR) colors after the war.
In the DDR era Leipzig was a city known for the big international trade fairs,a lot of western bussiness men travelled to Leipzig for that reason.
And Berlin speaks for itself.

Paul.

Whether you go for DB or DR or both (what ever your interests are) for me it is a marketing stunt by any model train producer to produce the same loco for different Railway companies and to some degree since the nations of Europe are what one could call: unified, Märklin and other producers have benefited from it.
it is a matter of money, taste and choices how many railway companies you include into your collection or layout.
I myself, have started mainly with DB locos, than Austrian, Swiss, Dutch and French. over the years I've realized to keep it up it would be a money spinner for the sellers but I could see the outcome in the end so I culled my collection to DB, ÖBB, SBB and SNCF with a couple from SNCB and 1 FS diesel loco.

Historically it is again another story to compare the 2 railway companies before or after the war and one can say even when the wall was removed east Germans felt inferior against their counter part from West Germany.
Having said this many companies including railway depots etc etc. had been scrapped after the unification putting a strain on employment opportunities.
Working for the railway in East Germany. and steam was kept much longer than the West, the existance to work would have given these people a formal security and most probably an insecure status after the unification.

the ordinary East German worker had what they needed to live and the Comminist regime gave them this security it didn't go anywhere, it didn't make any profits or gave them browny points except choining the party.
How both sides railway workers had been integrated into another railway system, corridor or similar work, I don't know but what ever working and living standards both sides had would have been adequate.
Even if you look at the West, not everything is rosy and this is what the Eastern People thought, there will be a new live, prosperous and rich, they soon found out it wasn't all cake and the icing soon dropped off.
I don't think there is much difference between a railway worker in Germany or Thailand both have a certain expectance from live and both are happy to be a live.

If you take for instance the english railsystem , most of the followers and worshippers of steam in Britian are older people, who lived, who worked, who supplied, who travelled, who adored the ingeneering skills of their anchestors including bridges, tunnels and the locos them selves.

and one could say it stood still for many years without any modifications or improvements, the governments spend their money on roads.

to find something extra ordinary in the past history of both East and West Berlin is from the person who has certain living standards and is trying to apply these to a culture who do not live on a point scale.

Education is one of the important lessons any country can benefit from and from an economic point of view, each country has their own economic culture, it may be Western or Eastern culture or religion, the question I ask my self is, who benefits more from what.

If I would look at the Austrian railsystem and integrate other railsystem into my layout, this would mean: Hungarian, Slovenia, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Chech Republic and Slowakia.

or one goes back to the Habsburg empire:

The Kingdom of Croatia (1527–1868);
The Kingdom of Slavonia (1699-1868);
The Grand Principality of Transylvania, between 1699 (Treaty of Karlowitz) and 1867 (Ausgleich)
The Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria, in modern Poland and Ukraine (1772–1918)
Duchy of Bukovina (1774–1918);
New Galicia, the Polish lands, including Kraków, taken in the Third Partition (1795–1809);
Venetia (1797–1805);
Kingdom of Dalmatia (1797–1805, 1814–1918);
Kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia (1814–1859);
Kraków, which was incorporated into Galicia (1846–1918);
The Voivodeship of Serbia and Banat of Temeschwar (1849-1860);
The Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia (1868–1918);
Sanjak of Novi Pazar occupation (1878–1913);
Bosnia and Herzegovina (1878–1918)



regards.,

John

bahnbilder.de provides a lot of pictures, old and new. Pictures of the BR 118 DR (V180DR) and the BR 120 DR (V200DR).

The BR 120 DR has been called Taigatrommel (Taiga drum) because it was delivered from Russia without exhaust silencer. In the vast and less populated landscape of Russia, you do not really need that. That's why some love these locos because of their special sound. However, people living close to shunting yards or near railway lines started to complain and the DR started to order the locos with a silencer. The first (I think) 200 locos got a silencer later.

EDIT: Just in the last months, Piko also came up with different version of the BR 118 and BR 119.

Best,

Tim