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Question BB 12000 on Industry track 5120 ?
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Offline Gregor  
#1 Posted : 14 August 2012 19:14:12(UTC)
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Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Netherlands
Hi all,

I have used some pieces of industry radius 286 mm 5120 M track in hidden areas of my layout. I now wonder if the SNCF BB12000 locs 37330-37335 will be able to negotiate this curve ?

More generally: Is there a list available which locs can handle the 286 mm radius and which not ?

best regards,
Gregor

PS: Yes it's ugly, non-prototypical, toy-like etc., but it's hidden !
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Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 14 August 2012 19:53:55(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,871
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Gregor,

Good luck with that. I think it's unlikely that a loco that size will go round those curves succesfully. They are intended for small tank locos and shunting engines.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Gregor  
#3 Posted : 14 August 2012 21:45:00(UTC)
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Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Netherlands
Thanks Ray,

But sometimes luck is on our sides. My E50 and E94, which are bigger than the BB12000, run over the 5120 section without problem. Guess it depends on how much freedom the bogies have to rotate. I'm kind of hoping the BB12000 has the same generous freedom.

Best regards,
Gregor
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Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 14 August 2012 22:57:59(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,871
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
That's good news, Gregor! I would never have thought an E50 would get round! I can understand the E94 doing so, being articulated.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Smile
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline jeehring  
#5 Posted : 15 August 2012 15:30:17(UTC)
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jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: Gregor Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Ray,

But sometimes luck is on our sides. ...
..(...)... I'm kind of hoping the BB12000 has the same generous freedom.

Best regards,
Gregor

I think so :that's probably why the blades of the suspension are engraved on the side of the boggie , instead of being a separate part like on the former model of BB 9200 (into the prototypical reality BB 9200 & BB 12000 share the same type of suspension & almost same trucks ).
However, I've never tried it myself on M track...
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Offline Dreadnought  
#6 Posted : 16 August 2012 17:21:28(UTC)
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Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 422
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Back in my younger days, ie forty plus years ago, I used them a lot, Now less so. Then my locomotives were the 0 6 0, the E 41,the 01 class pacific, and my trusty beloved V 200. Only the 01 would bind. From that I would assume locomotives with two wheel trucks were fine, but longer fixed trucks would bind. Greater clearance was needed on the inside of the curve.
Can you set up a test circle, experiment, and tell how the newer locomotives manage?
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Offline Gregor  
#7 Posted : 16 August 2012 22:35:09(UTC)
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Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Netherlands
Hi Dreadnought,

I could do that, but it might take some time. Unfortunately I don't have much time to spend on the layout. My last update on this forum was called: The 2006 to 2009 progress.... I see other members achieve more progress in a single month than I do in 3 years.

I'll report it in a new thread, where others can add their experience. As such we will build our own database !

As for the BB 12000, I will only buy it if somebody else can confirm it handles R286 well. And it will not be this year.

When I was 18, just after graduation from secondary school, I went on a cycling holiday from The Netherlands to France with a friend. We ended up in lovely Thionville (...) and the only good part of that place was that the campground had a clear view on the shunting yard, where these ugly monsters went from left to right. Therefore I want to have it on my H0 shunting yard (where 1 pc of hidden 5120 track is used) and not on the main lines.

Best regards,
Gregor
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#8 Posted : 16 August 2012 23:50:27(UTC)
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kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,769
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Gregor Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I have used some pieces of industry radius 286 mm 5120 M track in hidden areas of my layout. I now wonder if the SNCF BB12000 locs 37330-37335 will be able to negotiate this curve ?

More generally: Is there a list available which locs can handle the 286 mm radius and which not ?

best regards,
Gregor

PS: Yes it's ugly, non-prototypical, toy-like etc., but it's hidden !



Hi Gregor,

I have bad news.

I have a 37335, and I can tell you that it will NOT negotiate anything under 360mm radius.

I thoroughly checked my loco this morning using pieces of loose track, and on this radius of track (R1 C track), the bogies are at the limit of tolerance against the side-frames.

In saying that, I believe Marklin to have done the best model of this type. Jouef, Hornby Acho and others have done this model, but from what I have seen the Marklin example is the finest. And you are correct, it is an ugly beast. See my review elsewhere in the forum.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Gregor  
#9 Posted : 17 August 2012 10:03:45(UTC)
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Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Netherlands
Thanks Kimball,

Bad news but useful information.

Apparently the BB 12000 occasionally pulled some passenger trains as well, so I might reconsider... but than again not this year.

Thanks again for your research,
Gregor
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Offline steventrain  
#10 Posted : 17 August 2012 10:25:59(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,707
Location: United Kingdom
Do it said 'Min radius 360mm' in the 37330-5 manual book?

I look on M website and no Min 360mm radius in manual.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Gregor  
#11 Posted : 17 August 2012 12:24:19(UTC)
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Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Netherlands
Hi Steven,

That is in fact the core of the problem, Marklin never clearly indicated if a loc can manage this small radius or not.

The only info was always provided with the M track 5120 itself in the catalog: "Industry radius, not suited for long locomotives or carriages", which is only a general warning and not a clear specification.

best regards,
Gregor
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Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 17 August 2012 14:09:25(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,871
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Gregor,

At the risk of being a bit controversial here, I always took Marklin's warning about the "industrial circle" seriously. For that reason I never included any 5120 pieces on my old Marklin layout, even though it would have made it much easier for me in the restricted space I have.

I think Marklin's warning about the radius is sufficiently clear. If you choose to disregard it and include these track pieces on a line where you intend to run longer locomotives then you are asking for trouble.

I did consider building a branch line which would have started with a 180 degree curve using those tracks, but I never planned to use anything other than small tank engines and my 3016 railcar on the branch. In the end I changed over to C Track and my plan for the branch line was never realised.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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