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Catenary Car 39970 Pantograph? - Pantograph not functioning
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Offline midwestbls  
#1 Posted : 02 July 2012 22:32:47(UTC)
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midwestbls

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 76
I was lucky enough to recently find a new 39970 Catenary Maintenance Car with the special functions of being able to digitally raise and lower the pantograph as well as raise, lower and turn the maintenance platform.

None of the special function (separate decoder, address 71) worked when I first put it on the track. The "main" (address 70) functions all worked great.

I use an Intellibox.

I did find on-line the instructions to re-set a couple of the IB Special Options specifically to make the 39970 special functions operable. And indeed after making those changes to the IB the maintenance platform can be raised and lowered and turned (though it "jerks" when beginning to rotate). However, the pantograph doesn't work at all. Doesn't lower or raise remotely, just stays up via the springs. I can hear the motor function when a command is issued.

How is the pantograph mechancially connected to the motor? I can't see anything. Should I?. This may be a warranty repair issue unless someone knows of some control/software issue I'm missing.

Thanks.

- Bill
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station
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Offline Dave Banks  
#2 Posted : 02 July 2012 22:57:05(UTC)
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Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Hello Bill, I know this is going to sound silly but have you released the pantograph from its locking mechanism? Once that is done it will stand a little proud by maybe 2mm & when motor is activated it will go up & down. Do not try to pull it up buy force. It is connected by the thinnest of threads. Let us know how you get on.

D.A.Banks
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Online H0  
#3 Posted : 02 July 2012 23:05:30(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,433
Location: DE-NW
The pantograph is lowered by a thin nylon thread.
Instructions say the raise the pantograph before hooking it down. And later unhook the pantograph before you put it on the track.
So maybe the nylon thread is torn apart. Or maybe it's not where it should be.

If it moves at least a bit up and down, the mechanism may only need calibration.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline midwestbls  
#4 Posted : 02 July 2012 23:53:57(UTC)
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midwestbls

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 76
Well, upon taking the car out of the box, the pantograph was in the "locked down" position, and following the directions I unhooked it before operating. It raised to full position up. That's where it remains. I see no thread or wire or any other attachment to raise or lower it. (I assume the motor/thread pulls and holds it down, and when raising it, the spring pulls it up as the motor/thread releases tension.)

Sounds like a repair issue ... I did buy it new from an authorized M dealer.

- Bill
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station
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Offline Ross  
#5 Posted : 03 July 2012 00:52:24(UTC)
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Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 945
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hello Bill,

The instructions for the 39970 are not very good with regard to the pantograph.

If the pantograph is up and you can't see the nylon thread then it has become disconnected and will require fixing.

Try the following if you can see the nylon thread.
First release the pantograph, it should spring into the upper possition.
If the pantograph doesn't automatically spring to the upper position after being disengaged, then the locomotive housing should be removed (lifted up) until the pantograph automatically moves to the upper position. Under no circumstances should the pantograph be pulled upwards!
With the pantograph in the upper position replace the locomotive housing then try the function to lower/raise the pantograph.

This problem is usually caused by transportation over long distances and if you follow the above instructions you will get it to funtion.

For the special options to control the locomotive and functions using the IB(1) see my "Strange Bits Log, page 12" under my Tips section on my web page.

Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post
Well, upon taking the car out of the box, the pantograph was in the "locked down" position, and following the directions I unhooked it before operating. It raised to full position up. That's where it remains. I see no thread or wire or any other attachment to raise or lower it. (I assume the motor/thread pulls and holds it down, and when raising it, the spring pulls it up as the motor/thread releases tension.)

Sounds like a repair issue ... I did buy it new from an authorized M dealer.

- Bill


Ross
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Offline midwestbls  
#6 Posted : 03 July 2012 16:49:04(UTC)
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midwestbls

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hello Bill,

The instructions for the 39970 are not very good with regard to the pantograph.

If the pantograph is up and you can't see the nylon thread then it has become disconnected and will require fixing.

Try the following if you can see the nylon thread.
First release the pantograph, it should spring into the upper possition.
If the pantograph doesn't automatically spring to the upper position after being disengaged, then the locomotive housing should be removed (lifted up) until the pantograph automatically moves to the upper position. Under no circumstances should the pantograph be pulled upwards!
With the pantograph in the upper position replace the locomotive housing then try the function to lower/raise the pantograph.

This problem is usually caused by transportation over long distances and if you follow the above instructions you will get it to funtion.

For the special options to control the locomotive and functions using the IB(1) see my "Strange Bits Log, page 12" under my Tips section on my web page.



Thanks, Ross. It was your "Strange Bits Log" that I found that helped me change the IB SOs and get the platform working. I will look more closely again, but I do not think the thread is attached, and I'll need to send it back for repair.

- Bill
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station
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Offline GSRR  
#7 Posted : 03 July 2012 17:15:18(UTC)
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GSRR

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,339
Location: USA
Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ross Go to Quoted Post
Hello Bill,

The instructions for the 39970 are not very good with regard to the pantograph.

If the pantograph is up and you can't see the nylon thread then it has become disconnected and will require fixing.

Try the following if you can see the nylon thread.
First release the pantograph, it should spring into the upper possition.
If the pantograph doesn't automatically spring to the upper position after being disengaged, then the locomotive housing should be removed (lifted up) until the pantograph automatically moves to the upper position. Under no circumstances should the pantograph be pulled upwards!
With the pantograph in the upper position replace the locomotive housing then try the function to lower/raise the pantograph.

This problem is usually caused by transportation over long distances and if you follow the above instructions you will get it to funtion.

For the special options to control the locomotive and functions using the IB(1) see my "Strange Bits Log, page 12" under my Tips section on my web page.



Thanks, Ross. It was your "Strange Bits Log" that I found that helped me change the IB SOs and get the platform working. I will look more closely again, but I do not think the thread is attached, and I'll need to send it back for repair.

- Bill




Bill,

unfortunate if it is broken, this is a nice model. The piezo motors are a bit delicate and finicky. Try using a magnifying glass before giving up, the thread can be quite difficult to see. If you send it back see if the dealer will replace it. It was made for three years and still can be found. Walthers no longer does repairs and this would go back to Germany. Could be a year before you got it back.


r/Thomas


ETE UserPostedImage ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V
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Offline Ross  
#8 Posted : 03 July 2012 23:35:16(UTC)
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Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 945
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Bill,
It's good to hear that people find useful information on my web site, thanks for the feed back.

If the nylon thread is missing from the pantograph, I'm sure if you remove the loco body, find the end of the thread and re insert it through the body, then the pantograph. Heat from a soldering iron will make a small blob on the end of the thread to stop it comming out again. It's worth a go before sending it back to Germany.

Do you know anyone in the ETE group that may have the same model that you can compare with your loco? I'm sure someone in this group would be able to help you.




Thanks, Ross. It was your "Strange Bits Log" that I found that helped me change the IB SOs and get the platform working. I will look more closely again, but I do not think the thread is attached, and I'll need to send it back for repair.

- Bill


Ross
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Offline midwestbls  
#9 Posted : 07 July 2012 03:23:41(UTC)
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midwestbls

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 76
So how is the "thread" supposed to be attached to the pantograph?
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station
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Offline Dave Banks  
#10 Posted : 07 July 2012 05:23:22(UTC)
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Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
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D.A.Banks
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Offline Dave Banks  
#11 Posted : 07 July 2012 05:30:54(UTC)
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Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
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Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post
So how is the "thread" supposed to be attached to the pantograph?


At the top of the Pantograph in the center is a small 2mm round pin. That is where the cable is tied to & it just rests in that recess under the slightest tension. If that small pin is missing you can achieve the same by just tying a knot at the top if the Catenary or use method as previously suggested. Hope this is of some help.
D.A.Banks
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Offline midwestbls  
#12 Posted : 07 July 2012 07:06:17(UTC)
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midwestbls

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 76
OK, your pics are brilliant. Thanks. BUT before seeing the new posts, after dinner and a couple glasses of wine and finding myself alone with the rest of the family out for the evening I decided to brave this project.

I carefully followed the directions for removing the work platform and the body, but it didn't come off, not much, held down by the pantograph area. With a magnifying glass I could see the small 2mm "pin" laying against the top of the roof. Body back on and with some long, thin tweezers I was able to grab - after several attempts - the pin and pull it up, still attached to the "thread". Whew! Though the thread appears to be more of a heavy-test fishing line... The tiny pin kept slipping away and while attempting to retrieve it again (and again) I noticed the small round "receptacle" between the bars of the pantograph pick up.

The thread only pulled up about 1/2 way to the spring-extended pantograph, so I'd have to hold the line up (retracts if you let go or it slips out of the tweezers - often), and then bring the pantograph down to fit the pin up through the recepticle. After numerous failures to grasp, lift, hold, position, aim, and DAMN! start over again, I finally got to where I could grab the pin with fine-tipped long tweezers, lift and hold the line with tweezers in the other hand, trading the tweezers for a small locking tweezer/clamp in the right position to tilt the end of the pin up vertical to push up through the pantograph bracket, pressed down with fingers simultaneously, and then grabbing the end of the pin to pull through. After many attempts I caught it and whe it slipped out of my tweezers for the umpteenth time it was through and held finally.

On the track. Address 71 into the IB. F3 ... PERFECT! Brilliant. Love it. And the pride of fixing it myself. I was so glad to find the little slightly dumbbell-shaped pin still attached and keeping the control thread from fully retreating inside the body.

It's a great model, great diesel sound (looking forward to my M CS2 later this year to access the additional sounds). Now I have to decide if I re-paint it to match my Swiss BLS theme ... Maybe someday.

Thanks again for all the ideas and encouragement.

- Bill
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station
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Online H0  
#13 Posted : 07 July 2012 08:04:30(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,433
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post
looking forward to my M CS2 later this year to access the additional sounds
With the IB you can get all sounds an MS1 will get. Try address 255 (F2 through F4) for three more sounds (address can be changed via CV 75).
Only two sounds inaccessible without a Central Station ...

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Dave Banks  
#14 Posted : 07 July 2012 11:09:27(UTC)
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Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Well Bill, I think we can chalk this one up as mission successful. Enjoy this lovely model. I know I do.

Cheers Dave...



D.A.Banks
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Offline midwestbls  
#15 Posted : 07 July 2012 15:38:31(UTC)
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midwestbls

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: midwestbls Go to Quoted Post
looking forward to my M CS2 later this year to access the additional sounds
With the IB you can get all sounds an MS1 will get. Try address 255 (F2 through F4) for three more sounds (address can be changed via CV 75).
Only two sounds inaccessible without a Central Station ...



Thanks, Tom. Address 255 got the extra sounds via the IB. What a brilliant model.

Anyone else have this problem: The car was parked last night with the pantograph down. When I tried to raise it this morning, it had clipped itself down, and you can't release it if the thread is pulling down. Took a bit of back and forth, but finally released it no problem. It seems there shouldn't be any big problem if this happens and you attempt to raise the pantograph via F3 since the down position is the "tension" position from the motor and thread ... and up, the motor "releases" and the springs assist in raising the arm. Not a complaint, just an observation. Perhaps it will go to the shed with the arm raised in the future ...

I am quickly becoming a sound-snob, having only just come back to the hobby after a good 8+ years and making the switch from DC to AC. I mean, shouldn't ALL my electric loks have at least a horn?!

- Bill
ETE - Swiss Era III - BLS - Brig Station
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Offline Renato  
#16 Posted : 08 July 2012 18:07:01(UTC)
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Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Hi Bill,

Many congratulations for your successful job!

What you did I think is exactly the work made by Märklin employees (but they already know how to proceed and this is the reason why in the instruction booklet it is indicated that the item has to be sent to the Märklin Service Department).

Anyway you fixed the problem with high effort, but without spending money for the repair and waiting for a long time.

Again many many congratulations.

Cheers

Renato
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