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Märklin 35851 & 36606 VS Roco 68501
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Offline carleso123  
#1 Posted : 18 January 2012 22:42:34(UTC)
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carleso123


Joined: 18/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Barcelona
Dear All.

I want to know if somebody can tell me the differences between this three models, and which could be the best option.
Thank you very much.
Best Regards.

Carles.
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 18 January 2012 23:09:40(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,467
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Carles,

M* 36851 is Re 482 with old shape, M* is Re 482 with new shape (crash-optimized loco).
Roco 68501 is Re 484.

All three are variations from the TRAXX family with differences in details. Roco's model has the best detailing of those three models.
The Märklin models are from the Hobby range with simplified details and yellow LEDs.

BTW: Questions shouldn't go into the Reviews section.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline mike c  
#3 Posted : 18 January 2012 23:45:42(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,245
Location: Montreal, QC
I happen to have them all (and more)...

The Maerklin 36851, 36857 (Version with RAG markings) and 36606 are all Maerklin Hobby models and have rather basic motor and decoders although having metal bodies and limited details. 36851 and 36857 are loks from the first series. 36606 represents a lok from the second series.
The Roco 69591, 69592, 69599, 69501, 68506 are all more detailed models, OEM ESU decoders and good motors, albeit with plastic bodies. 68501 is a Re 484 for Italy and Switzerland. 68506 is a Re 482 from the second batch.

There is also Trix 22631, which is similar to Roco 68506 in quality and detail, also having a plastic body, but would require conversion for AC operation.

The first three Roco models are older productions, and still have bulbs for the head- and taillights. The last two models have LED lighting.
The Maerklin models all have yellow LED lighting, with no taillights.

I will take some photos and attach them to this post, so you can see the details.

UserPostedImage
You can see the detail is of a much higher level on the Trix model (front) than the Maerklin model of the same lok (rear).
UserPostedImage
Trix (DC) in the front, Maerklin in the rear
UserPostedImage
Maerklin's 36851 (482 011) vs 36606 (482 046)
UserPostedImage
Roco's 69592 (482 002) vs Maerklin 36851 (482 011)
UserPostedImage
Roco's 68506 (482 039) vs Maerklin 36606 (482 046)
UserPostedImage
and finally... Roco's 69592 (482 002) vs 68506 (482 039):
UserPostedImage

The Trix and Roco models both have a much higher level of detail than the Maerklin version. This includes pantographs and other roof details (multicolored), bogie and wheel details, integrated close coupling mechanism. The first Roco models had light bulbs. The newer ones have LEDs/

More info on the prototype and the differences in real life can be found here:
Traxx AC 1 (482 000-034): http://www.railcolor.net...p?nav=1405291&lang=1
Traxx AC 2 (482 035-049):http://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1405188&lang=1

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 20 January 2012 07:52:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
Offline arconell  
#4 Posted : 18 January 2012 23:58:06(UTC)
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arconell


Joined: 27/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 174
Location: Kreis Kleve, Germany
Hi Carles,

Tom pointed out the differences, what the best option is depends on your requirements also. The Mä models have metal housings, if that`s important to you. And less detail.
Also, they have what Mä calls a "special motor". Many Märklinists dread that because they feel it is an inferior motor of may be Chinese production (many people think it is a Mabuchi motor, which is Japanese, not Chinese but may be of Chinese production). As for the Roco, it is definitely made in China, I mean the whole loco, as is true for all Roco products these days.

Frankly, I haven`t seen reports on motor failures of the MÄ loco`s, I have seen a few complaints about the running characteristics of the Mä loco`s but I have seen that of all the Mä loco`s I have considered and/or bought. As for the Roco, I haven`t seen any comments at all, not for this AC version. Then again in numbers sold it is probably a fraction of the Mä models. But for most people, the most important thing is price. It appears Roco is about twice as expensive, so I would buy one each of both Mä models BigGrin

Best regards Robert
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Offline carleso123  
#5 Posted : 19 January 2012 23:36:43(UTC)
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carleso123


Joined: 18/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Barcelona
Dear All.

Thank you very much for the comments.

As well explained by Robert, probably I will choose one of the Mä....n models, replacing the original yellow light plates for new one´s with white led´s.

Best Regards.

Carles.
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Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 20 January 2012 03:28:53(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,245
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: arconell Go to Quoted Post
Hi Carles,

Tom pointed out the differences, what the best option is depends on your requirements also. The Mä models have metal housings, if that`s important to you. And less detail.
Also, they have what Mä calls a "special motor". Many Märklinists dread that because they feel it is an inferior motor of may be Chinese production (many people think it is a Mabuchi motor, which is Japanese, not Chinese but may be of Chinese production). As for the Roco, it is definitely made in China, I mean the whole loco, as is true for all Roco products these days.

Frankly, I haven`t seen reports on motor failures of the MÄ loco`s, I have seen a few complaints about the running characteristics of the Mä loco`s but I have seen that of all the Mä loco`s I have considered and/or bought. As for the Roco, I haven`t seen any comments at all, not for this AC version. Then again in numbers sold it is probably a fraction of the Mä models. But for most people, the most important thing is price. It appears Roco is about twice as expensive, so I would buy one each of both Mä models BigGrin

Best regards Robert


Robert,

to clear up a few statements...

1) I highly doubt that the Maerklin special motor is a Mabuchi motor. It is probably a more basic model than that.

2) The earlier Roco models were built in Austria (69591/69592/69599). The more recent models were described as being manufactured in Slovakia. I have heard some rumours that some of these models may have in fact been made in China, but have not seen any definite proof.

As far as the Maerklin models, there have been issues with the motor, with the arrangement of the traction tires (traction) and problems with the LEDs. On top of that, the decoder is integrated into the very basic circuit board and it is not possible to change decoders on these models. Maerklin finally released a kit with sound decoder with a new PC board, but if you want to add an aftermarket decoder, you will have to get the Trix circuit board which has the connector for a decoder built in. There are also companies who manufacture upgraded LED kits to improve these models. The cost of these upgrades is likely to drive your Basic Maerklin model into the same price range as the Roco or Trix models.

I prefer the aesthetics of the Roco models. In addition to the higher detail, they also have close coupling shafts, something which very few Maerklin loks have, which results in a better appearance with consist on the layout.

Please see the photos added to my post above.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 20 January 2012 07:53:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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User is suspended until 24/11/2846 07:19:16(UTC) Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 20 January 2012 05:04:19(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,778
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
BTW: Questions shouldn't go into the Reviews section.



Correct! Topic moved to H0 section.
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Offline TimR  
#8 Posted : 20 January 2012 05:55:10(UTC)
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TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post

I highly doubt that the Maerklin special motor is a Mabuchi motor. It is probably a more basic model than that.


Marklin 36xxx TRAXX definately comes with a basic, large, and cheap can motor. It reads "cheap" and don't think it's Mabuchi.
Though not as noisy as most 5-pole motor, this can motor still makes quite a bit of noise level.

It's definately not a strong puller in comparison to the average Marklin loks,
and decoder lacks a 21-pin or 8-pin plug-in commonly found on MFX model.

Detail wise, these TRAXX models are nowhere close to Marklin's standard 37xxx or 39xxx e-loks.

Like Mike said, upgrading LEDs, decoder, or other details to Marklin's TRAXX is likely to push their price to the same level of Roco's or Marklin 37xxx or 39xxx.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
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Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 20 January 2012 08:01:31(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,245
Location: Montreal, QC
Please see the photos that I have added to my first post.

In addition to the models shown, I have the Roco 69599 "Holcim" version in white, the special "ChemOil" version from Roco Switzerland (69591.1), the Re 484 (68501), the Crossrail BR 185 (68505) as well as the Maerklin "RAG" version (36857) produced for Conrad Stores, representing the prototype as leased to RAG/Crossrail and used for tanker and container trains between Germany and Wiler BE Switzerland.

Shop around. The Trix model is on special at a lot of dealers. It requires some conversion to be operated on Maerklin, but it does not appear to be too complicated. The Roco AC models are ready to go for analog or digital. If you decide on the Maerklin model(s). Keep in mind that they are hobby models and do not pay more than 89 EUR or $129.00.

I did not buy any of the RailTop or ACME versions, as I understand there have been some functional issues with Maerklin track (switches).

Regards

Mike C
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Offline carleso123  
#10 Posted : 21 January 2012 00:05:42(UTC)
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carleso123


Joined: 18/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Barcelona
Hi Mike.

Thank you very much for the pictures, and all your explanations.
Congratulations for this excelent collection!
Now, my doubts seems much clear.
Definetively Roco models are much better in detail level, and I don´t see any improvement between the two Mä models.
The question is that I´m really affraid to try other manufacturers, because i had always a good experience with Mä since I was a child.
But now it´s time maybe to get something different and compare performance.
Why not ?

Thanks again.
Have a nice weekend.

Carles.
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Offline river6109  
#11 Posted : 21 January 2012 01:21:19(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,879
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Carles,
I have about 20 Roco locos and never had a problem with them and the myth is still out there, things ar falling off roco models and the housing is plastic.
I must admit earlier models plastic housing let the light shine through but since we have progressed a bit further and Roco has introduced led's.
I do check my new roco locos for added parts or when I add parts to the loco housing I make sure they are tied and if this is not the case I use the tiniest drop of super glue and secure it.

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 21 January 2012 08:14:38(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,467
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: carleso123 Go to Quoted Post
and I don´t see any improvement between the two Mä models.
Both are Hobby models with "many integrated details", suitable for the hands of children.
You can improve the look with a little bit of paint (black, silver, brown for the cable on the roof, silver for the brake disks (there were pictures on this site)) and maybe a different NEM pocket for closer coupling.

Besides Märklin, Roco, and Trix, you can get these models from Piko also. Their 185.0 (old Traxx) is a Hobby model (light bulbs), their 185.2 (new Traxx) is a Professional model (LEDs) with better detailing.

Märklin model with silver and black paint on the cable (cable still much thicker than from other brands):
UserPostedImage

Some prototype pictures in this thread:
https://www.marklin-user...spx?g=posts&m=206777
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline TimR  
#13 Posted : 01 February 2012 09:18:13(UTC)
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TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Originally Posted by: TimR Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post

I highly doubt that the Maerklin special motor is a Mabuchi motor. It is probably a more basic model than that.


Marklin 36xxx TRAXX definately comes with a basic, large, and cheap can motor. It reads "cheap" and don't think it's Mabuchi.
Though not as noisy as most 5-pole motor, this can motor still makes quite a bit of noise level.



Just some additional note about the motor type of Marklin hobby models:

In the Stummi H0 forum, there is thread about 36711 model defect.

In this thread, there is a picture of the inside of Marklin "hobby" can motor from this ICE-2 model - no difference to the TRAXX models that we talked about here.

The inside of the motor is a relatively "cheap" quality 3-poler, though it maybe quite reliable for use in years as reported by many users.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
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Offline RayF  
#14 Posted : 01 February 2012 10:49:07(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,871
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have several of the Marklin TRAXX locos and a couple of the other hobby locos too. The detail is certainly basic, but reasonably accurate when it's there. They have left off a couple of noticeable details like the cab steps, no doubt to prevent them breaking off.

The motor works well, and seems to be similar to those used in slot cars and other toy and model applications. They are very cheap and easily replaced, so if it does go wrong it's not the end of the world. Certainly they are quiter than DCM motors in operation, but not as smooth as the more expensive models equipped with SDS or precision can motors.

For the price, the Marklin Hobby models are certainly an attractive proposition if you are not too fussy about level of detail.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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