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Offline walters48  
#1 Posted : 25 December 2011 03:08:10(UTC)
walters48

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 199
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
I just received in the mail a TM 800 that I won on eBay. I think this is my oldest M* lok, but I haven't bought a set of Kolls yet, so I don't know which version and how old it is. I will describe it's most salient features and hopefully one of my brother Marklin collectors can enlighten me.
Instead of a one piece slider, it has two curved "paddles" of much thicker metal than the usual piece, and both are grooved, although the grooves may be from wear. I will need center rail track if I want to run it, but I might just display it. On the left side under the cab windows is "Marklin" in caps and below that is "TM 800". On the other side is "Germany" w/ "TM 800" underneath. Nowhere on the lok does it say "3004".
At the front of the boiler, under the little wheel in the center of the boiler hatch is "20 V". Instead of centering springs on the Relex couplers are strands of copper wire. There is no "one screw" casing-frame separation on top of the boiler. Instead, there are four screws: two fore and two aft. It has two working cartridge-like head lamps and two little silver painted concave discs simulated back lamps. Any information as to variety, year of manufacture and value in good to very good condition would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Chas
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 25 December 2011 03:37:02(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,003
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Chas,

We also have "sisters" Marklin collectors.

TM 800: 3004

1.) Year of production: 1949-1952 no rubber tyres
2.) year of production: 1953-1956 with rubber tyres
3.) year of production: 1957-1958 with Relex coupling
4.) year of production 1971-1974 same as version 3 with Number 3904 (kit form)

So the only changes had been made, a.) rubber tyres, b.) relex coupling and c.) a kit.

For any price valuation log on ebay.de and type in TM 800 and you should see a trend regarding prices.

Merry Christmas

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline rjftrains  
#3 Posted : 25 December 2011 04:05:02(UTC)
rjftrains


Joined: 14/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 58
Location: Katonah, NY
"Kit" locomotives / cars can often be easily identified:

a) no box (of course, not having a box does NOT necessarily mean it came from a kit)
b) solder connections that look -- how shall I put it -- "less" than professional
c) some couplers (especially on freight cars) often have cotter pins (instead of rivets)
Robert Frowenfeld
RJFtrains@aol.com
www.RJFtrains.com
914-232-5546
Offline cookee_nz  
#4 Posted : 25 December 2011 10:17:46(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,845
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Chas,

We also have "sisters" Marklin collectors.

TM 800: 3004

1.) Year of production: 1949-1952 no rubber tyres
2.) year of production: 1953-1956 with rubber tyres
3.) year of production: 1957-1958 with Relex coupling
4.) year of production 1971-1974 same as version 3 with Number 3904 (kit form)

So the only changes had been made, a.) rubber tyres, b.) relex coupling and c.) a kit.

For any price valuation log on ebay.de and type in TM 800 and you should see a trend regarding prices.

Merry Christmas

John


If it helps, according to Greenberg's guide, there are these additional version notes...

A: 1949, wide black loop couplers, no flanges on middle wheels
B: 1949-52, as above except with flanges on all wheels
C: 53-54, as above but with traction tyres
D: 54-58 (3004), as above, small black loop coupler
E: 71-74, (3904), kit form, no manual reverse lever

There is no specific mention but I would have thought the "TM800" wording to have been dropped from the Cab for the 1971 on version. Perhaps someone can confirm?

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline walters48  
#5 Posted : 25 December 2011 17:32:43(UTC)
walters48

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 199
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Chas,

We also have "sisters" Marklin collectors.

TM 800: 3004

1.) Year of production: 1949-1952 no rubber tyres
2.) year of production: 1953-1956 with rubber tyres
3.) year of production: 1957-1958 with Relex coupling
4.) year of production 1971-1974 same as version 3 with Number 3904 (kit form)

So the only changes had been made, a.) rubber tyres, b.) relex coupling and c.) a kit.

For any price valuation log on ebay.de and type in TM 800 and you should see a trend regarding prices.

Merry Christmas

John


My thanks to John, and my sincere apologies to all my Marklin Sisters.
Looks like I have version 1. No rubber tyres and flanges on all drivers.
Can I change those paddle sliders to the ski type; I would like to run it on C and M track?
Merry Christmas to all!
Offline cookee_nz  
#6 Posted : 26 December 2011 03:37:41(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,845
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: walters48 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Chas,

We also have "sisters" Marklin collectors.

TM 800: 3004

1.) Year of production: 1949-1952 no rubber tyres
2.) year of production: 1953-1956 with rubber tyres
3.) year of production: 1957-1958 with Relex coupling
4.) year of production 1971-1974 same as version 3 with Number 3904 (kit form)

So the only changes had been made, a.) rubber tyres, b.) relex coupling and c.) a kit.

For any price valuation log on ebay.de and type in TM 800 and you should see a trend regarding prices.

Merry Christmas

John


My thanks to John, and my sincere apologies to all my Marklin Sisters.
Looks like I have version 1. No rubber tyres and flanges on all drivers.
Can I change those paddle sliders to the ski type; I would like to run it on C and M track?
Merry Christmas to all!


I'd be interested whether anyone can confirm (or deny) the apparent variation quoted in Greenberg's re the flanged center wheel set??

Greenberg's is very helpful, especially being in English but it's not infallible.

I like to note an errors or omissions in the guide as they are found for future reference and this is a perfect example of what to watch for. If anyone has a TM800 with NO flanges on the center pair of wheels (and a picture), then it would appear Koll have missed it, which I find unlikely after all this time. The wheelbase is such that there would not really be any reason not to have flanges even for the tightest curves.

Cheers

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 26 December 2011 06:03:59(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,003
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Cookee,

My post has come from the Kolls Catalogue and there is no mention of the centre axle having no flange.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Markus Schild  
#8 Posted : 26 December 2011 10:59:48(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

The TM without flanges on the middle axle is shown in the D49 and in the supplement for the D47.

UserPostedImage

The loco exists and it has even a slightly differing chassis, which cannot run on standard-curves when fitted with regular wheels. It even comes up on Ebay-Germany from time to time. But not all locos without flanges never had some, there are even locos which had been refitted to run on 5120-radius.

The Koll-catalogue is also known as "book of fairytales" to collectors in Germany. Since decades Mr. Koll spends more efforts in selling books than revising the contents.

Regards

Markus
Offline cookee_nz  
#9 Posted : 26 December 2011 11:36:23(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,845
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

The TM without flanges on the middle axle is shown in the D49 and in the supplement for the D47.

The loco exists and it has even a slightly differing chassis, which cannot run on standard-curves when fitted with regular wheels. It even comes up on Ebay-Germany from time to time. But not all locos without flanges never had some, there are even locos which had been refitted to run on 5120-radius.

The Koll-catalogue is also known as "book of fairytales" to collectors in Germany. Since decades Mr. Koll spends more efforts in selling books than revising the contents.

Regards

Markus


Ah ha, that's most interesting, thanks very much Markus.

So in this case, it appears the Greenberg guide may be more 'correct' than Koll. I note my Mikado 1983 reference also omits any reference to the center wheel flange.

It would seem Chas that you can quote two variants - Koll's version 1 (with center wheel flange), or Greenberg's version 2.

Cheers

Steve

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline walters48  
#10 Posted : 27 December 2011 00:12:45(UTC)
walters48

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 199
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

The TM without flanges on the middle axle is shown in the D49 and in the supplement for the D47.

The loco exists and it has even a slightly differing chassis, which cannot run on standard-curves when fitted with regular wheels. It even comes up on Ebay-Germany from time to time. But not all locos without flanges never had some, there are even locos which had been refitted to run on 5120-radius.

The Koll-catalogue is also known as "book of fairytales" to collectors in Germany. Since decades Mr. Koll spends more efforts in selling books than revising the contents.

Regards

Markus


Ah ha, that's most interesting, thanks very much Markus.

So in this case, it appears the Greenberg guide may be more 'correct' than Koll. I note my Mikado 1983 reference also omits any reference to the center wheel flange.

It would seem Chas that you can quote two variants - Koll's version 1 (with center wheel flange), or Greenberg's version 2.

Cheers

Steve


Steve(or anyone),
That leaves me w/ just two questions: Approximately how much is it worth(US) in good condition, and would I be able to remove the paddles pick-up and affix a slider pick-up?

Thanks to all for their input,
Chas
Offline river6109  
#11 Posted : 27 December 2011 01:58:38(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,003
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Chas, the pick up she can be replaced but you need the right parts for it, it may work for what you've got there, look at my previous post regarding value.

Here is a link:

http://www.ebay.de/sch/i...+TM+800&_sacat=22128
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline drstapes  
#12 Posted : 27 December 2011 02:25:15(UTC)
drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 764
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
Hi,
The old Marklin service manual says the slider for a 3004 (TM800) is part number 21201.
My question is ,When were the spoon shaped pickups replaced by the more familar slider pickup.? My guess in 1952/3
Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
Offline drstapes  
#13 Posted : 27 December 2011 02:33:07(UTC)
drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 764
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
Here is a link on ebay to a slider.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...&hash=item3352524e85
Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 27 December 2011 05:33:50(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,003
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: drstapes Go to Quoted Post
Here is a link on ebay to a slider.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...&hash=item3352524e85



Geoff,

Unfortunately this slider is only part of a pick up shoe, if you go further down my webpage: ebay.de you can see the whole pick up shoe.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline drstapes  
#15 Posted : 28 December 2011 02:30:17(UTC)
drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 764
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
John,

for sliders , Eckert Engineering on ebay do a good job.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/...&hash=item35a8fe8ba2

Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
Offline walters48  
#16 Posted : 04 January 2012 20:23:21(UTC)
walters48

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 199
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted by: drstapes Go to Quoted Post
John,

for sliders , Eckert Engineering on ebay do a good job.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/...&hash=item35a8fe8ba2



So I contacted Eckert for the correct slider for my TM (after the eBay seller sent me a #7185 slider as a good will gesture and because I was complaining). So Eckert said I would need a #7173 or #7174, BUT because my TM had come w/ a spoon current collector I would have to drill and tap the frame so it would screw in right w/ a new slider. BUT Eckert said that I should probably leave it alone because the spoon alone was worth up to $100.00, and he didn't even have one spoon in stock! So I'm thinking my $53.00 TM 800 might be worth a few bucks...
Happy New Year,
Chas

Offline Rick.P  
#17 Posted : 29 May 2021 12:03:33(UTC)
Rick.P

Thailand   
Joined: 03/07/2020(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: Chiang Mai, Chiang Mai
This is interesting info on the TM800 Ver. 1, if I can find the article it had stated that the Ver.1 did not have a reversing unit. The TM 800 that I have does not have a reversing unit or manual switch, however there is a slot for the manual switch in the the body. Needless to say I am a bit confused and any assistance would be appreciated. As best I can tell everything else is correct, no rubber tyres, couplings etc. Thank you.
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