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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 20 November 2011 21:31:31(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,216
Location: Montreal, QC
I was comparing my Roco and ACME DB (Avmz) and SBB (Am) Eurofima coaches. From the first moment, I noticed that there were a few differences in the models. Looking at the coach bodies, it could be seen that the coach body between the door and the bogie was not the same. The Roco model, which I have had in my collection since the 1980s seemed to have this body section shorter than on the ACME model.
The ACME model also has wider small windows adjacent to the doors (WC on one side) than the Roco model. I remember reading some opinions that the ACME models "incorporated" some design details from their FS UIC Z series models. The FS models seem to have WC windows that are slightly larger than on the VSE (Voiture Standard Europeene) Eurofima originals and the body panel adjacent to the doors ends with a right angle rather than the slanted cutout on the VSE Eurofima.

Roco SBB Am (44655):
http://www.trenietreni.i...o/carrozze/44655SCAT.jpg

ACME SBB Am (52400):
http://www.trenietreni.i...E/carrozze/52400scat.jpg
http://www.reisezugwagen...00_AmSBB_Abteilseite.jpg

Roco SBB Bcm (44650):
http://www.reisezugwagen...s/Roco_44650_Bcm_SBB.JPG

ACME FS:
http://www.reisezugwagen...E_50613_EurostarCity.jpg
Rivarossi FS (same prototype as ACME FS):
http://www.trenietreni.i...si/carrozze/4114scat.jpg

Here is a photo of an actual SBB Am (on the left), showing the body panel between the door and the bogie:
http://www.railfaneurope...isc/SBB_Am%2BApm_RF1.jpg

Here's a FS Eurofima sandwiched between two of the FS UIC-Z follow-up series coaches. You can see the slight differences in the doors and the side panel next to the door:
http://www.railfaneurope.../XMPR/sbb98100117A01.jpg
The Eurofima also does not have the small vents over the Washrooms that can be seen on the follow-up coach series.

For those who are interested, the FS follow-up (1987) series was originally intended to complement the TEE/Gran Comfort coaches, which had originally been only 1st class, following the introduction of the two class Intercity Network in the late 1970s. The original livery of the FS UIC-Z coaches was gray and white with a blue stripe, matching the Gran Comfort livery of the earlier coaches, except that those had the red stripe indicating first class. In the 1990s, those coaches were repainted in the bigrigio (gray) livery with yellow stripe and then in the XMPR livery. Unlike the original Eurofima coaches, which were used in International service, these coaches were never painted in orange with a white stripe. Shortly thereafter (1989), the FS placed an order for new 1st class coaches which were delivered in the (then) new bigrigio livery.

Based on these photos, I have concluded that neither the Roco nor the ACME coach are 100% true to prototype. Each one has little deviations from the prototype. I even pulled out my ADE model to compare. It has similar dimensions to the Roco coach, but has a slightly larger WC window, which may signify that the Roco model is too small. The Maerklin (4162/4267) is very similar to the Roco, albeit in 1/100.
I guess Roco may have rendered the side panel a little shorter to accommodate the rotation of the bogies. The actual side panels on the prototype might interfere with the rotation of the bogies in 1/87.

LS Models has announced models of the Eurofima coach for 2012, beginning with SNCF and SNCB variants. I am pretty certain that SBB and DB variants will follow.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Loadmaster  
#2 Posted : 20 November 2011 22:51:04(UTC)
Loadmaster

United States   
Joined: 03/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 898
Location: So Cal
Mike,

I have some blue and orange Z scale Swiss "SBB CFF FFS" coaches do I understand that these are all Eurofina?
Please explain Eurofina, is this a tour company or private operator?

Thanks,

Rob
HOac and Z scale running SBB/BLS Era IV-V
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 20 November 2011 23:15:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,432
Location: DE-NW
Eurofima coaches in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofima_coach
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 21 November 2011 04:51:19(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,216
Location: Montreal, QC
The English Wikipedia article explains the name Eurofima and lists how many coaches went to which participating country. It does not mention the SBB Bcm, which was a Eurofima coach, but was separately ordered from the main order. The Eurofima VSE (Voiture Standard Europeene or European Standard Coach) was developed by a consortium and met the newly established criteria for the UIC Type Z coach for International Train Traffic.
According to the UIC Z classification, the coach was designed to have 9 compartments in first class coaches and 11 in second class coaches. Prior to that, the UIC-X norm had ten compartments in 1st class and 12 in 2nd class. The UIC-Z norm also called for built-in airconditioning for the coaches, flush to body sliding doors, to name a few of the major differences vis a vis the earlier designs.
The coaches were inspired by elements from the Linke Hoffman Busch aluminum coaches for the DB, the 1972 delivery of Bm RIC coaches to the SBB, and the Simmering Graz Pauker UIC-X coaches delivered to the OBB in 1972. The Eurofima designed combined elements from these three designs in what was supposed to set a standard for future rail coaches in Europe. The LHB-SGP consortium initially delivered a series of combined 1st and 2nd class coaches to the SNCF, FS and DB. The main series of 1st class coaches (SNCF & SNCB A9, DB Avmz207, SBB Am, FS Az, OBB Amoz) went into delivery in 1976, with the second class (SNCB B11, FS Bz, OBB Bmoz) shortly thereafter.
The Eurofima program faced problems right from the start. The NS declined to participate in the venture, so the NS very soon found itself with no modern coaches for international traffic. They ended up using IC-R rolling stock on routes into Germany and Belgium, but NS coaches were no longer seen in Switzerland, Austria and Italy as they were in the 60s and 70s. The DB followed up on the initial order with a separate order for similar designed 2nd class coaches with open seating (Bpmz), the French went ahead with their own program for VSU and VTU coaches for the Corail program. Thus, the whole concept of the European Standard Coach went out the window. The SBB did order 20 B11 coaches with modifications to be operated as couchette coaches (Bcm) as did the SNCB. The Austrians augmented their fleet with similar coaches, many without airconditioning, which led to the division of the UIC class into UIC-Z1 (airco) and UIC-Z2 (no airco). They also ordered additional coaches from SGP, which were delivered without the sliding doors. The FS ordered a number of second class coaches in the late 1980s and then additional 1st class coaches based on the same design. The DB introduced new designs also based on the UIC-Z design, including the Bvmz185, Apmz123 and other variations of the Bpmz291 and Avmz207, In 1993, the SBB received delivery of the first batches of the new SBB EC coaches, also based on the same standard.
The Eurofima idea of a standard coach never went beyond the initial production. The assorted coaches of the various railways killed the idea of a standard coach for prestige international trains.
The Eurofima agency also financed some freight car productions, but never a second series of passenger coaches.

The liveries were as follows:

DB Avmz207: Red/Beige with black skirt, later with red skirt. Have since been repainted in Red/Pink/White, Red/White and later ICE colors. Some coaches reclassified to other numbers (1st or 2nd class)
OBB Amoz/Bmoz: Orange with white stripe. Later Traffic Red and Black and then red/gray/white
FS Az/Bz: Orange with white stripe. Later Bigrigio and XMPR (Green/Blue/White)
SBB Am: Orange with white stripe. Repainted into Gray/Black/White with red doors
SBB Bcm: Blue with white stripe. Repainted into Blue/Black
SNCF A9: White/Black with Orange Doors (Corail) or Orange with white stripe (Benelux - to match SNCB coaches). Later repainted in Corail plus livery. Some coaches reclassified as B9
SNCB A9/B11: Orange with white stripe. Later Memling White/Blue variations

Here is a link to the German Wikipedia page for Eurofima coaches: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofima-Wagen

Here is a link to the Eurofima organization: http://www.eurofima.org/

Maerklin has yet to make models of the FS Eurofima coaches in the original orange livery. I have been waiting years for these. This was one of the reasons why I switched to 1/87 (Roco) coaches in the 1980s.
I have since bought the 41893, 41895 and 41896 Sets, but still would love to see the orange ones in 1/100 to go with my SBB and DB ones.

Maerklin has based most of it's modern models on the Eurofima and DB Bpmz291/Apmz123 models. This includes the OBB, FS and SBB open seating coaches, none of which were prototypical. It would be nice to see Maerklin make new models of some of the post-Eurofima series.

Maerkln did make B11 coaches of the SNCF, which never existed. The SNCF has it's own 2nd class coaches from the Corail series and has now declassified some A9 as 2nd class. A large number of the SNCF VSE were sold to North Africa (Morocco and Tunisia?)

Regards

Mike C
Offline ciderglider  
#5 Posted : 23 January 2025 00:25:23(UTC)
ciderglider

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 66
Location: Leicestershire
I have been looking at Marklin's Z gauge OBB Eurofima coach sets, 87342 and 87343, which both comprise two 2nd class cars and one 1st class. The two sets differ in that the former has a newer livery, and the latter has the earlier orange livery.

A couple of things puzzle me about these models. Firstly, the prototypes were air-conditioned, but there are a lot of windows on the model that looks like they would open. The second oddity is the door on the 1st class car. On the prototype, there is a skirt below the door, but it's missing from the model. The models of the 2nd class car represent this correctly.

Am I missing something, or were Marklin just cutting corners with these models?
Offline Carim  
#6 Posted : 23 January 2025 10:41:27(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 681
Location: London
Hi,

In Z scale, Märklin takes a lot of liberties. The Amoz is incorrect in both liveries and the Bmoz looks better in orange. In the later liveries there should be no bars across the windows (except for toilets).

OBB Amoz.jpgOBB Bmoz.jpg

Carim
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Carim
Offline mike c  
#7 Posted : 24 January 2025 18:30:08(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,216
Location: Montreal, QC
I posted a reply to this message, but it appears to have vanished into the ether... So, I will take another go at it.

Many manufacturers models of modern coaches, including the Eurofima VSE have included compromises for running quality. Roco's N scale Eurofima models initially had the lower part of the doors as moveable parts to permit the pivoting of the bogie and couplings. Later versions had a modified design which allowed for a better rendering of this part of the coach.

In Z scale, Maerklin has effectively rendered their models without the lower details in for the same reason. It looks like this was resolved in a better manner for the models of the second class (Bpmz291) that was introduced a few years later. The Avmz207 (A9) as well the Avmz111 and Apmz121 coaches all had the same modifications to allow for free movement of the bogie/couplings.

@Carim, the 2nd class coach you provided a photo for is not a Eurofima coach, but rather a coach very similar to the Eurofima coaches that was commissioned by the OBB to supplement their Eurofima coaches in the mid-1970s. As opposed to the Linke Hoffman Busch (LHB) VSE (Standard European Coach), these coaches had Swiss folding doors and SGP (not FIAT) Bogies. Later models had the same type doors as the Eurofima coaches. There were also differences in the undercarriages and skirting.

The design of the windows on the OBB depended on whether the coach was a VSE original or one of the subsequent productions. The VSE was supplemented by the OBB EC coaches starting around 1989. Those coaches were UIC-Z2 like the VSE, but had many modifications that set them apart.

In my earlier post, I provided a link to the German wikipedia page for the Eurofima coaches. Unfortunately the English page does not provide all of the same information, including information about the OBB VSE inspired designs.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline ciderglider  
#8 Posted : 25 January 2025 14:01:47(UTC)
ciderglider

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 66
Location: Leicestershire
It hadn't occurred to me that the rendering of the doors was to allow the bogies to move freely on tight model railway curves. I'd imagined that Marklin has repurposed some existing mouldings, but the fact that these OBB Eurofima coach models have the grille in the middle on one side suggests that wasn't the case. @Mike_C I have seen the German Wikipedia link on a post you made elsewhere; it is very useful.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ciderglider
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