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Offline French_Fabrice  
#1 Posted : 25 September 2011 21:57:29(UTC)
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French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,489
Location: Lyon, France
Hi All,

Today I've purchased a second-hand marklin loco, a 3335; It's a BR254, same as 3022 and successors (german croc').

After opening the body, what a surprise, there's a decoder inside, a Lenz which looks like the "GOLD+" (without the brown wire). After a few attempts, the CS2 recognizes the decoder (MM2 programmable) and the loco moves on the prog. track... so far, so good;

I put the loco on the layout, and after a few meters, it suddenly stops when entering the station (all signals are green and work ok)...I push the loco thru the station then it starts again...Mmm, the difference is the tracks are cut at the beginning and end (2295 K-tracks); that's the first time it occurs and all other locos run fine. So this must be related to this loco only.

After a few other attempts, I feel this loco has isolated wheels. When I compare it with a vintage 3022, the wheel axis don't look similar: on the 3335 the axis are black at the end (like an insulator), while the 3022 axis are the same color of the wheels i.e. silver/metal color.

So, I've investigated to find out spare parts and at the present time:
-spare wheels (20962 old ref, 209620 new ref) are available at marklin online shop: OK
-spare axis (76009 old ref, 760090 ??? new ref) are also available, but web site display "WELLE" (DE lang.) for this ref., which translates into "WAVE"??? the 3022 spare parts leaflet states "Achse" for part "38" which translates into "Axis"...
Please note I've found the replacement part refs in the 3022 spare parts leaflet

My first question: Is the 760090 the right number for axis replacement (76009 original part number) ?Confused

My second question: I've never changed on my locos the axis and wheels as separated parts. Should I need special tools to do that, and more important the knowledge of do's and don'ts ??? Any pointer will be greatly appreciated (web site article, or if that doesn't bore you a short explanation)...

I've tried to search for the replacement of the full bogie, but spare part 430230 (found in the 3335 spare parts leaflet)is no more available.

Your valuable advices are welcome.
Cheers
fabrice
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Offline efel  
#2 Posted : 26 September 2011 13:55:58(UTC)
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efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post

I feel this loco has isolated wheels. .....



First of all, be sure of that.
Use an ohm-meter.
Tell us the result. There are several possiblities other than changing the wheels and axies, and quite easier.

Fred
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Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 26 September 2011 15:26:08(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Fabrice,

You most probably picked up a Hamo loco 8335, BR 254.

http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eB...em&item=260829978973

You could have a big job ahead of you.

its not just 3 axles, you have to change 6 axles.

You could buy a front bogy with a pickup shoe but the motor part bogie, yes you do need a special tool to take them off and on.

Although I have taken them off in the past, which is not a problem but putting them back on again, this is where the trouble can start unless you slide them back exactly you can finish up with a wobble.
So from my perspective it is not recommended.

the other option you may have, if the seller did'n mention it is DC you may return it and state that you only operate AC.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline jvuye  
#4 Posted : 26 September 2011 17:08:48(UTC)
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jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,883
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
Hi All,

Today I've purchased a second-hand marklin loco, a 3335; It's a BR254, same as 3022 and successors (german croc').

After opening the body, what a surprise, there's a decoder inside, a Lenz which looks like the "GOLD+" (without the brown wire). After a few attempts, the CS2 recognizes the decoder (MM2 programmable) and the loco moves on the prog. track... so far, so good;

I put the loco on the layout, and after a few meters, it suddenly stops when entering the station (all signals are green and work ok)...I push the loco thru the station then it starts again...Mmm, the difference is the tracks are cut at the beginning and end (2295 K-tracks); that's the first time it occurs and all other locos run fine. So this must be related to this loco only.

After a few other attempts, I feel this loco has isolated wheels. When I compare it with a vintage 3022, the wheel axis don't look similar: on the 3335 the axis are black at the end (like an insulator), while the 3022 axis are the same color of the wheels i.e. silver/metal color.

So, I've investigated to find out spare parts and at the present time:
-spare wheels (20962 old ref, 209620 new ref) are available at marklin online shop: OK
-spare axis (76009 old ref, 760090 ??? new ref) are also available, but web site display "WELLE" (DE lang.) for this ref., which translates into "WAVE"??? the 3022 spare parts leaflet states "Achse" for part "38" which translates into "Axis"...
Please note I've found the replacement part refs in the 3022 spare parts leaflet

My first question: Is the 760090 the right number for axis replacement (76009 original part number) ?Confused

My second question: I've never changed on my locos the axis and wheels as separated parts. Should I need special tools to do that, and more important the knowledge of do's and don'ts ??? Any pointer will be greatly appreciated (web site article, or if that doesn't bore you a short explanation)...

I've tried to search for the replacement of the full bogie, but spare part 430230 (found in the 3335 spare parts leaflet)is no more available.

Your valuable advices are welcome.
Cheers
fabrice



Hello Fabrice
Since you are in France...
I have done these for many years..., when I was a Märklin Service Center in California.(2-rail to 3 and vice versa!)
If you want I can re-convert the loco to 100% 3-rail , I still have the tools and the parts.
Won't cost you a fortune, and you won't have to wait until the end of times either!
Worst case, I'll replace the insulating bushings by brass ones...and will ensure proper gauging between wheel flanges to make sure it fits Märklin track.
If you want,you can bring the loco here, and I'll do it on the spot, you can watch...so next time you'll be able to do it all yourself!
Send me a PM if interested!
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#5 Posted : 26 September 2011 23:38:06(UTC)
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French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,489
Location: Lyon, France
hi all,

@fred : ohm-meter says "no beep", i.e. all wheels are insulated

@john: yes, you're right all 6 axis are concerned (motor bogie is also concerned); it's probably a 8335 hamo which has been stored in a 3335 box, or a true 3335 which has been DC'ized Crying. The man who sold me the loco is not an expert, and he acts as an intermediary between the owner - who is now deceased, R.I.P. - and his family who wished to sold all the marklin collection, so I'm not too angry against him.

@jacques: you're proposal is very generous, and I'll be very grateful to learn from you; please let me a few days to think about it before I make my decision.

a few shots of the loco, depicting:
-the non insulated side of the wheels
UserPostedImage
-the insulated side of the wheels (see the black part around the axis)
UserPostedImage
-the loco itself, which is in very good condition
UserPostedImage
and finally, a last question:
what is this kind of "bumper" below the motor bogie for ? any clue ?
UserPostedImage

If some of you have feasible tips I can proceed on my side without any special tooling, I'll be glad to hear your advices. The final solution may be to submit to job to Jacques in case I'm not able to do myself the job.

Cheers to all
Fabrice
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Offline jvuye  
#6 Posted : 27 September 2011 08:54:44(UTC)
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jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,883
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
hi all,

@fred : ohm-meter says "no beep", i.e. all wheels are insulated

@john: yes, you're right all 6 axis are concerned (motor bogie is also concerned); it's probably a 8335 hamo which has been stored in a 3335 box, or a true 3335 which has been DC'ized Crying. The man who sold me the loco is not an expert, and he acts as an intermediary between the owner - who is now deceased, R.I.P. - and his family who wished to sold all the marklin collection, so I'm not too angry against him.

@jacques: you're proposal is very generous, and I'll be very grateful to learn from you; please let me a few days to think about it before I make my decision.

....
If some of you have feasible tips I can proceed on my side without any special tooling, I'll be glad to hear your advices. The final solution may be to submit to job to Jacques in case I'm not able to do myself the job.

Cheers to all
Fabrice


The pictures are clear, this was a proper job of 2-railing a 3-rail loco.
The "bumper" is a special contact used earlier in the 2-rail world to trigger signals and switches, etc.
Doing the conversion "without any special tool" is IMHO a 99.9% risk of unsatisfactory result...
I am not looking for a job or make a buck, rather just trying to pass on to the younger generation the few things I have learned before it is too late...
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline old toot  
#7 Posted : 27 September 2011 10:55:46(UTC)
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old toot

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 498
Location: christchurch, canterbury
hi Fabrice
why dont you talk to marklin service they do restores of the older
locos, they would give you a quote for the job and they have the gear
to be able to do the job, or if you are near the germany border could be worth
a drive to the factory, and when they see it first hand they would be able
to quickly access it for you, and would make a nice day trip and check out
the seconds bin out the back at the retail display its amazing what ends up there.
regards from kiwiland
old toot
were we pickit, packit and postit
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Offline efel  
#8 Posted : 28 September 2011 03:37:07(UTC)
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efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
If the loco was, previously, working on 2 rails system, there must still be one or several copper strips rubbing on the insulated wheels, that allowed to feed the motor/decoder in 2 rails use.
You have just to connect those stips to the chassis with a wire. That way, the chassis will be connected to both rails, and you will be able to use "contact rails" in your layout.

Fred
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Offline jvuye  
#9 Posted : 28 September 2011 07:00:07(UTC)
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jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,883
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: efel Go to Quoted Post
If the loco was, previously, working on 2 rails system, there must still be one or several copper strips rubbing on the insulated wheels, that allowed to feed the motor/decoder in 2 rails use.
You have just to connect those stips to the chassis with a wire. That way, the chassis will be connected to both rails, and you will be able to use "contact rails" in your layout.

Fred


Hello Fred!
Maybe...maybe not!
Normally, the pick up on insulated wheels on Hamo locos is a part that replaces the pick up "ski" found on 3-rail locos, so it is one or the other, not both unfortunately!
Besides, HAMO only uses the non-powered bogies for pick up, there is no contacts on the powered bogie.
While on the subject...the original HAMO system is not very dependable!
I have an 8359 Capitole loco running on our Museum's 2-rail layout and the least I can say is that the power pick up on two wheels only is less than reliable!
Also with the metal couplers, some metal coaches will create shorts (like the 4 Märklin Capitole coaches that are used on the layout)
The only safe solution was to insulate *all* the coaches' wheels, and outfitting one bogie of the first coach with power pick-ups, which are then wired to the loco!

3-railers don't know how lucky they are!BigGrin BigGrin

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline efel  
#10 Posted : 30 September 2011 13:59:46(UTC)
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efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
..
Normally, the pick up on insulated wheels on Hamo locos is a part that replaces the pick up "ski" found on 3-rail locos, so it is one or the other, not both unfortunately!..


Thanks, Jacques. I didn't know that.

There is also another solution if we want to use a modified 2rails loco while both keeping insulated wheels and using contact track: it's to add zener diodes on the contact tracks. (as a matter of fact, that diodes also avoid the parasitic stopping of 3 rails locos).
NB: that solution works with s88 detectors, but not in analog+relay layouts.

Fred
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#11 Posted : 05 November 2011 11:40:20(UTC)
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French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,489
Location: Lyon, France
Hi All,

Finally, I've visited Jacques Vuye who performed the proper 3-rais conversion, and all is fine now.BigGrin
Many thanks to you, Jacques. ThumpUp That was a real pleasure to meet you, and also having learned from you how to proceed.

I've also replaced the old Lenz decoder with a new Lokpilot V4, and it's now a real pleasure to see the loco moving slowly without any trouble.

Thanks again, Dr Eisenbahn !
This forum is really a great place.

Cheers to all
Fabrice
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