Joined: 29/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: Netherlands
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I have just decided not to go on holiday and invest in catenary instead  OK, I am an absolute catenary dummy, I might not have read the manual (actually, there was none) but I am left with a few questions... I set up my track's mid-circle (R2 = 437,5 mm - 24230) as test...the 70172 fit OK, but I am not sure if i need to bend the circle parts. I left them straight in my test, but this makes too much of 'hangover' and the pantograph slips away/above. So is it common to bend the catenary pieces to the curve it is supporting? Or is there another trick? |
Mosty era III DB. |
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 Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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Gert-Jan: No, you don't bend it. You have to have pieces short enough and properly positioned such that the stay on the active portion of the pantograph. It was customary to bend the old Marklin catenary, but that was never very realistic to start with. Viessmann makes a positioning tool that locates your masts for you. I'm not sure if Marklin has picked that item up in their offering (after all, the new Marklin catenary is Viessmann with a few modifications). It takes a little bit of practice to properly construct the catenary, but once done it relly looks great. I'll add one of my favorite (and much used) pictures here as an example:  |
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 1 user liked this useful post by rschaffr
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 Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home
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Gert Jan,
I agreed with Ron.
The other trick is placing more masts in curves with shorter contactwire elements.
Also the mast should be placed on the other side of the track (outside of the curve).
Because of the catenary forces on the masts and other construction elements (in real life).
That will be more realistic too.
Regards,
Timaximus |
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet |
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Joined: 29/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: Netherlands
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Thank you Ron and Timaximus for your reply.... I have planned to put catenary on the two outer circle's the inner circle stays without. Putting the masts in the other circle side for both would give no problem for both circle's Nevertheless, using the C-rail iron 'feets' and (in this case) the proper 70172 parts, there isn't that much to control as being all quite "fixed" I will have to give it a new look and try not to bend I'll check the Viessmann website with their PDF manuals! http://www.viessmann-modell.com/ |
Mosty era III DB. |
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 Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,448 Location: Italy
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Hi Gert-Jan, you must use 16 mast for a circle of tracks. Every radius have its catenary wire, the lenght for R2 is 172,5 mm. cod. 70172 You must check that in the middle between two mast the wire mustn't be farth more than 6 mm from the center of the track bye  |
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Joined: 07/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 388
Location: ,
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Hi All,
I have been working with the new Marklin catenary since last November. I have about 60% of my layout done. I have discovered the following: 1) The catenary book that Marklin sells is a joke. The guys who wrote it never really delt with serious problems like two double slip switches together, 2) The instructions that come with the starter set are worse.
I have solved most of my problems by trial and error. It looks and works great, but you must have a lot of patience. Its like working with fine jewelry. The thing that is holding me up at the moment is that they only came out with R1 and R2 curves. I can't move an inch more until I get R3, R4 and R5 curves. Why could they not have them all done at the same time. Even if it took longer to come out. One more point. They suggest that you need not solder the wires to the poles. I found that for sturdy, reliable operation they should be soldered. I run my locos off of the catenary on digital and never have had a problem with the old Marklin Catenary or the new running ditigal. Marklin does not recommend it. Question: Then why sell it?
One of my great disappointments was to go to the Marklin museum and to the Toy Fair and to see the electric locos on the layouts running under the catenary with the pantos down.
Off my soapbox.
Jack
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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Jack: Viessmann has a great variety of lengths for the catenary that is identical to the Marklin except for color (the Marklin is a little darker). You can get lengths for longer curves from them. They also have "make your own length" sections that you put the hooks on the end with special pliers they sell. I use the Viessmann exclusively and usually use the make your own length sections in my work. They will fit on the marklin masts. The Viessmann masts are insulated at the connections whereas the Marklin are conductive. With the Viessmann masts you must attach Y-Seil to bridge for conductivity at evey junction if you plan to run your loks from overhead (I have used a LOT of Y-Seil!!). I think I may switch to Marklin masts in the future, but I still plan to use Viessmann wires.
By the way, I run all my E-loks (digital) from above. I have a mix of Marklin, ESU and LokSound decoders and have never had a problem. |
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Joined: 19/06/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,412 Location: Home
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Ron,
You say: I run all my E-loks (digital) from above and I have never had a problem.
That sounds good.
Timaximus |
Märklin | HO | C+K Track | Digital | I+II+III+IV+V | Power and control by Uhlenbrock | Win-Digipet |
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Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,023
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
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Hi All,
The gurus say that the Sommerfeldt catenary system is very good (http://www.sommerfeldt.de/). Has ne1 used these? Any comments, suggestions and experiences? Also, does ne1 have comparisons between the Marklin, Viessmann and Sommerfeldt catenary systems?
Cheers and warm regards from Kuala Lumpur,
Ranjit |
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
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"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney |
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Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616
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Hi all, Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Ron:
Viessmann makes a positioning tool that locates your masts for you. I'm not sure if Marklin has picked that item up in their offering (after all, the new Marklin catenary is Viessmann with a few modifications). Yes Märklin has the tool in their catalogue. Best regards Guus |
Kind regards,
Guus |
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Joined: 07/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 388
Location: ,
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Ron and Ranjit,
Yes, I am familiar with the Viessmann. I wish I had used the wires from the beginning. I would be finished by now. I do use the Viessmann tensioning masts. They look great. I don't want to change now as the color will look weird.
With regard to the Summerfelt catenary. I spent some time looking at it at the Toy Fair this year. It looks great, but requires much more fitting and soldering than either the Marklin (which is made for them by Viessmann) or the Viessmann itself. The gurus are correct, if you have the skill and patience for it. Frankly, the Marklin catenary is about as complicated as I want to get. I don't want to spend whatever time I have on this earth doing catenary no matter how good it looks.
With regard to the positioning tool. I gave up on it after a few sections. You can position the catenary faster and more precisely in my opinion by just setting a piece and running a loco with the narrowest panto over it to make sure it is centered correctly and then fastening down the mast and soldering the wire to it before moving on. I found that if you don't do this as you go along, the wire could move and then you need to go back and test it all over again. It is really no different than laying track. You should check a section with a loco and cars before finally pinning it down. Also on straight sections, they should be zig zaged so the panto doesn't wear down in one place. However, the zig zag should be slight to keep the wire as centered over the track as possible. If any are interested, I have some suggestions with regard to the make up sections that are used for odd lengths. Believe me, there will be odd lengths.
Hope this info is helpful.
Jack
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1 user liked this useful post by tnx jake
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Joined: 19/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Vikeså,
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Hello
I have used the Viessmann catenary on my parts of my last layout, and I will use it on my new. I also used Märklin old catenary on my last layout. This would only be used on hidden parts of the new layout. I didn't use the positioning tool, but I will try it this time. I used many of the "make your own" lengths - they are easy too work with and look great. :-)
I build a "norwegian" layout and my biggest problem is that the system for holding catenary in stations differs from the german system. There are no manufacturers making these parts so I have to make them my self.
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 Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC) Posts: 726 Location: Cape Town
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Must agree with everything above - The M books and handouts are useless and as for the incorrect part numbers in the new catalogue!!! - What is a 74172?? or a 74142?? see page 367 - Anyway they obviously mean a 70172 and a 70142. Crazy people!!
My 5 cents on this is when you plan and buy your catenary items buy lots of adjuster sections (70231) as when doing a station area with lots of points and slips - it is a nightmare. Also they say bend the little edges up to fix the adjusted piece. Just be careful that you don't put too much pressure on the adjuster sleeve as it will just break off!!!
I think the idea of soldering it all up once you are happy with the installation is a good idea.
I am now halfway and it is starting to look really good but patience my friend patience!! |
Regards Tony |
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Joined: 07/11/2002(UTC)
Posts: 388
Location: ,
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Tony,
I agree 100% with everything you have said. Yes, be careful with those adjuster sections, when you bend the end up to stop the piece from slipping out. I have also found that they have a tendency to slip around so when I have them set where I want them, I put a drop of crazy glue on the top stringer. Holds it in place great. Too hard to solder that part. Doesn't effect usage if you don't get glue on the lower stringer.
Jack
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