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Offline MarioFabro  
#1 Posted : 29 April 2011 15:39:59(UTC)
MarioFabro

United States   
Joined: 16/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 793
Location: Pittsburgh,
I just received the 37627 and just taken out of the box. Very nice loco, can't wait to see it running.

UserPostedImage


I have a 37642 also listed as an Am 842 but the two are different

UserPostedImage


I also have a PIKO 59200 (a hobby loco) listed as Am 843

UserPostedImage

Is there an error in the Marklin definition of the two models 37627 and 37642since it appears they are different?
UserPostedImageUserPostedImageUserPostedImageEra IV-VI --- "If you have brains you love trains" or "When I grow up, I will play with trains"
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Offline Deborail  
#2 Posted : 29 April 2011 18:52:40(UTC)
Deborail

United Arab Emirates   
Joined: 06/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 819
Location: RAK
I also have one of these but it is the trix type...(SBB Cargo)
George

Given enough time, tasks manage themselves.
Offline Unholz  
#3 Posted : 29 April 2011 19:20:47(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,438
Location: Switzerland
The 37642 is (almost) correct and represents an existing SBB prototype (formerly owned by the track building company Sersa), but the 37627 is unfortunately wrong. The Piko and Mehano Am 843 models are much more accurate.
Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 29 April 2011 19:25:06(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,250
Location: Montreal, QC
Mario:

The Cargo Am842 was one of two MAK diesel loks that were leased from MAK in 2003. The loks were used for shunting and operation on non-electrified routes in Germany in the Schaffhausen border area. The red Am 842 was one of two loks that the SBB acquired from a private operator (may have been Sersa) that have been used for shunting and emergency operation in a few select SBB stations. The leases ended and the loks were returned to MAK (Vossloh around 2006)
The Am843 is a more powerful lok with a longer body which is being used by the Cargo, Passenger and Network Divisions for non-electrified routes and reserve operations.

So far, Maerklin has released up to 4 variants of the Am 842, 33642, 37642, 37643 and the current 37627, representing the two red Am 842 (000 and 001) and the cargo liveried 842 101 and 102.
Liliput also released a model of the red version.

Piko and Mehano released models of the Am843. Mehano went bankrupt and the lok is no longer produced.

37642 Am 842 001: http://cgi.ebay.ch/K8-Ma...-842-001-0-/120685099514

33642 Am 842 000: http://cgi.ebay.ch/K8-Ma...685126183#ht_4239wt_1011

Note the additional white stripe on the long end of lok 842 001.

The SBB has leased a few other Am 842 for use in border stations and on non-electrified routes in northern Italy. Photos of those loks (Cargo colours and Angel Trains liveries) at: http://www.railfaneurope...FS/diesel/Am842/pix.html

Those loks are registered with SRC (Swiss Rail Cargo aka SBB Cargo Italy) and labelled D 100 XXX SR and Am 842 XXX.

You can find more information about the Am 842 here (in German): http://www.loks-aus-kiel...rzeuge&object=am+842

Regards

Mike C
Offline MarioFabro  
#5 Posted : 29 April 2011 21:18:02(UTC)
MarioFabro

United States   
Joined: 16/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 793
Location: Pittsburgh,
Thanks for the replay. However my original question remains unaswered. Since 37642 and 37627 are both listed as Am 842 but they are quite different in length etc. does it mean that the 627 is actually and Am 843? Or was the first 842 (the one leased) actually different (shorter) than the actual 842 (the cargo livery). Also, I believe that 37642 has also a cargo livery but is it the same leco (legthwise and details)of 37642? Is therefore 37627 a model more correct and close to the prototype?
UserPostedImageUserPostedImageUserPostedImageEra IV-VI --- "If you have brains you love trains" or "When I grow up, I will play with trains"
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 30 April 2011 19:55:07(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,250
Location: Montreal, QC
Mario:

All the loks mentioned in your post are locomotives manufactured by MAK/Vossloh in Kiel Germany. Each lok belongs to a class assigned by the manufacturer. The SBB then assign it their own class, which is explained as follows:

A - Locomotive with a high speed in excess of 80km/h
m - Diesel motor
8 - Diesel
4 - Lok with 4 Powered Axles
2 - Series number

The link that I provided (loks-aus-kiel.de) gives exact information for each lok.

The 37642 is Am 842 001 which began it's life as MAK lok 1000879. The lok was built from MAK series G 1204 BB and was sold in 1993 to Sersa (Zuerich), a Swiss Construction Company, where it was given the name "Daniella". In 1994, the lok was taken over by the SBB and given the number Am 842 001. Here is a link to a detailed description of the G 1204 BB:
http://www.loks-aus-kiel.de/index.php?nav=1400736

The 37627 is Am 842 102, which began it's life as MAK lok 1001463. The lok was built from MAK series G 1000 BB and was leased Angel Trains and the on to SBB Cargo in 2003. Here is a link to the detail page:
http://www.loks-aus-kiel.de/index.php?nav=1400737

The G 1204 has a length over buffers of 12500mm. The G 1000 BB has a length of 14130mm, which is longer. Both loktypes were assigned the same Swiss class number, due to the fact that other features were similar, including:
Same manufacturer, same number of powered axles

To distinguish the loks from each other, the SBB assigned the original ones the numbers beginning with 000. The later (SBB Cargo) series received numbers beginning with 101. The most recent leases have had numbers starting with 11X, although they are known as D 100 XXX SR in Italy. Those loks are also from the G 1000 BB class. I guess that it would also not be economical for the SBB to assign a different lok class to a single lok or to a few loks. Compared to the Ae 6/6 (120), Re 6/6 (89), there were only 2 Am 842 from the first series, 2 from the second and 3 from the third.

The Am 843 were originally planned to be developed from the G 1206 class, but were finally derived from MAK class G 1700-2 BB. The loks that were delivered to the SBB were officially known from delivery as Am 843 because they were sold to SBB and not leased through a private lessor. In addition, the Am 843 differs from the G 1700-2 in terms of security equipment installed and other requirements for operation on the Swiss network. The private company Sersa and the BLS also ordered loks of this type. This lok type has a longer overall length than either the G 1204 or the G 1000 and different features (type and mounting position of headlights, etc).

As Stefan mentioned in his reply to your original post, the Maerklin model of the 37642 is pretty accurate in detail. The other Maerklin models are the same model, but with markings for the other series applied. The result is that the 37627 and the earlier 33643/37643 are not long enough (not to scale) and have a few other divergent details. Some would say that this makes them "fantasy" loks, while others would say that this is a reasonable compromise.

The same issue may also affect the Maerklin models of the various Angel Trains, NS, Railion and other versions of the MAK mainline shunter as they might not all be from the exact MAK class as the one used to make the Maerklin mold. The Crossrail shunter (from the 37346 Set) is from the series G 1202 BB and has an overall length of 12500mm, making this model, like the 37642, closer to the prototype than the 37643/37627.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mmervine  
#7 Posted : 30 April 2011 22:37:28(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,894
Location: Keene, NH
Mike-thanks for all of the great info!BigGrin
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 01 May 2011 10:34:05(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,872
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Quote:
As Stefan mentioned in his reply to your original post, the Maerklin model of the 37642 is pretty accurate in detail. The other Maerklin models are the same model, but with markings for the other series applied. The result is that the 37627 and the earlier 33643/37643 are not long enough (not to scale) and have a few other divergent details. Some would say that this makes them "fantasy" loks, while others would say that this is a reasonable compromise.



Hi Mike,

The 37642 and 37627 are actually different models, so which prototype was actually used for the 37627?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 01 May 2011 19:27:13(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,250
Location: Montreal, QC
Ray:

I thought that Stefan and I had both made this clear. The Maerklin model of the 33642/37642 is based on a Maerklin model of a MAK Lok with approximately the correct overall length. The later 34643/37643 and 37627 are both made using the same mold as the earlier model, but in these cases, the lok should be longer, as it was built from a different series. Thus, the 33642/37642 are relatively accurate. The SBB Cargo versions are not very prototypical. Basically, they are fantasy models using a generic MAK design and labelled for the model they are supposed to represent.

If you are looking for a prototypical SBB Cago shunter and you can still find it, the Mehano Am 843 is more prototypical and was a nice model. It is important to remember that Mehano went bankrupt and there may be no warranty, service or parts available. The Piko version is a more basic model of the same lok.

If you just like the idea of a SBB Cargo shunter on your layout, the Maerklin model should do fine. The other possibility would be to wait for the Bm 6/6 or Bm 4/4 from LS Models. These were the main Swiss diesel loks from the 1960s through 2000 and are still in use today.

For those who have tried to look up the Am 842 on the hfkern,de site: http://www.hfkern.de/Maerklin/Menue.html
They are not listed under Switzerland, but are listed under Germany in the section Diesel/MAK: http://www.hfkern.de/Maerklin/Dt_Loks_MAK.html
Regards

Mike C
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Offline Unholz  
#10 Posted : 01 May 2011 20:01:15(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,438
Location: Switzerland
Perhaps two pictures can help to make clear what Mike and I are trying to point out to you.

This here is a picture of SBB Cargo Am 842 102-6. As you can clearly see, it is a longish, sleek, and slightly "rounded" looking loco:

http://www.bahnbilder.de...z~Dieselloks~Am+842.html

And this here is what Marklin are attempting to sell as a "fantastic" interpretation of the loco in the first picture. Blink You can clearly see a shorter, almost rectangular or shoebox-like loco lacking (IMO) the stylish appearance of the machine above:

http://de.wikipedia.org/...timestamp=20071022191436

However, loco no. 2 does indeed more or less resemble the prototype of the Marklin models 33642/37642.

I hope that we have now jointly managed to blow away any possible confusion. RollEyes


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Offline TimR  
#11 Posted : 01 May 2011 23:55:27(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post

And this here is what Marklin are attempting to sell as a "fantastic" interpretation of the loco in the first picture. Blink You can clearly see a shorter, almost rectangular or shoebox-like loco lacking (IMO) the stylish appearance of the machine above:

http://de.wikipedia.org/...timestamp=20071022191436

However, loco no. 2 does indeed more or less resemble the prototype of the Marklin models 33642/37642.

Probably these are the confusing points for me:

First, the vents arrangement on 37627 is slightly different to that of MAK 1204BB... is this because of the variation between one batch to the other?

http://www.maerklin.de/p...27&picname=37627.jpg

Secondly - the scale length of G1204BB is 12500 mm - this is translating to 14.7 cm in 1/87 scale. Marklin 37627/37643 points at 16.5 cm model - which is closer to scale length of G1000B?

Confused
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 01 May 2011 23:58:38(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,872
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I think both Mike and Stephan have missed the point of my question.

Look at Mario's photos in the first post. The two models are clearly different. The 37627 is clearly longer than the 37642. Are you both saying there is no prototype at all for the 37627? I am getting the impression you are saying that Marklin used the same mould for both, but this is clearly not the case. This longer model that Marklin are using for the 37627 is not the same as the one they used for the 37642.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 02 May 2011 04:12:29(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,250
Location: Montreal, QC
Ray,

As far as I was aware, the dimensions of all the Maerklin MAK (Vossloh) diesels are the same. Some minor exterior details may have been updated to look more like the prototype, but Maerklin has not created a new tooling for each successive model. The Maerklin model of the 37627 has a listed overall length of 16.5cm. The original 37642 is listed in the 1999 Export Models Brochure as having an overall length of 14,5cm.

The description of the model paraphrased reads: In 1993, the SBB took possession from Sersa of two almost new diesel loks that were assigned the designation Am842. These units had been developed as class G 1204 BB from the "parts box" of the Machine Construction Company Inc of Kiel (Maschinenbau Kiel = MaK). In their basic design, they were closely related to the DE 1002 and to the more powerful and lengthened class 6400 of the Dutch Railroad (NS)"

http://www.railfaneurope...esel/Am842/842_001-2.jpg

In 1999, Maerklin also released a model of the Dutch Class 6400, which was derived from the MaK Series DE 1002. This model had a longer overall length, 16,5cm.

Maerklin has since then used that mold to reproduce all variants of the longer MaK models.

I was under the impression that Maerklin had used the same mold for all of their MaK loks. I realized today that this is not the case. The original SBB Am 842, along with the Tegernseebahn and other private operator models were made using the 14,5cm mold. The NS, SNCF, OBB and SBB Cargo versions were all produced using the 16,5cm mold. The 33/37643 and 37627 do not have the same body as the 33/37642, but are still not prototypically correct for the Am 842.

The Am 842 1XX were built from MaK series G 1000 BB. The exterior details are similar but not identical to the NS 6400 or OBB 2070, but Maerklin has used the same model design for all three models. This is the issue that has frustrated many modellers of Swiss trains. I had assumed that they had simply used the same MaK mold for all the models, which was not correct. I have to state that I have the 37643 in my collection. I do not have any of the older or newer models and have not been able to compare them together in person. I have to thank this post for prompting me to do some research, thereby clarifying the situation for me (and hopefully for you as well.)

The different series of MaK (Vossloh/VSFT) diesels each have their own particular features, much in the same way as the slight differences between the SBB Re 460 and BLS Re 465 or the BR 145, 146 and 185 Traxx series.

So, Ray, the 37627 is longer than the 37642, but it is still not fully accurate to represent an Am 842. It is basically a NS 6400 painted in SBB Cargo colours.

This site may have more information about the Vossloh (MaK) diesels: http://www.vossloh-locom...draulic_locomotives.html

Regards

Mike C
Offline RayF  
#14 Posted : 02 May 2011 10:00:37(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,872
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Quote:
So, Ray, the 37627 is longer than the 37642, but it is still not fully accurate to represent an Am 842. It is basically a NS 6400 painted in SBB Cargo colours.


Thanks Mike, all becomes clear! ThumpUp

Sorry to keep badgering about this. I have the 37627, and I was interested to know what prototype they had used to "simulate" the Am 842.

Notwithstanding the fact that it is technically incorrect, I am very pleased with the look and feel of the model, and it looks great in front of a train of modern freight wagons. It's a bit too big for a shunter, especially on my small layout, so it takes turns with my Re482 pulling freights when I switch my layout to Swiss stock.

Thanks again for your excellent research on Swiss trains.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline TimR  
#15 Posted : 02 May 2011 14:36:47(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
After looking at the pics at the bahnbilder.de again and comparing it again to 37627 - I now realize what is wrong..

(My theory is) seems Marklin had taken their basic 14.5cm model then try to extend it "generically" (probably in the front section of the lok) in order to fit 16.5cm length.
the driver's cab in 1000BB looks longer than M37627 - whose cab seems to be in proportion to the 1204BB model.

In other words, Marklin's model is a lengthened 1204BB (M37641 model) to fit into the scale of 1000BB;
rather than true reproduction of the larger 1000BB. Hence in some details it looks like 1204BB, where in others it look a bit like 1000BB.

Seemingly that a different (but similar) font was used, and different thickness was applied to the "Cargo" to try and disguise the fact.

You can clearly see that on the prototype that the "O" extends close to the end of the blue-painted section.
On 37627, the "Cargo" captions end more abruptly in the middle of the blue section.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
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