Outlook not good.

Not many Garratts in Märklin's main markets. None at all, I'm afraid.



While many Märklin fans would like new models from UK, Russia, or Spain (which are not too likely), the Garratts won't be high on Märklin's list.

I didn't forget Australia. I was speaking 'bout Märklin's main markets (and only quoted European Garrats from Wikipedia).

Don't forget Africa!

Wot are the chances of Märklin making The Ghan as a model?!?!?!? Or Le Lezard Rouge? The African Iron Ore Train? Or a QJ?

Slightly off topic but Tri-ang did do a version of the NZR Class Wg 4-6-4 Baltic.
I know, it was my first electric train

Noticed the middle axle has no flange. looks like AC ?

My Australian Garratt is under construction.

Although it is a remarkable loco in its own class and can sit besides the Big Boy anytime, I can't see any reason why Märklin can't produce it.
The only reason I can think off, is, it does'nt fit into any Railway Company, e.g. European or American.
One could also ask the question, how successful was the platinum corcodile ? although the mould was the same as previous models.
Having protection laws in Australia regarding Locos being produced in Australia any model being produced outside of Australia would have hefty import duties.

I personally think, it should be a manufacturer outside Germany to produce a model such as the Garratt to run on 3-rails.

Furthermore, my understanding is 2 rail manufacturers (Australia & America) do not wish to introduce 3 rail models because of their affiliation with AMRA, it would intervene with their code of practice. (middle contacts and rubbertyres).

As an exsample of reprocuing an american model (Roco)under contract with an american firm with strict guidelines not to add rubber tyres to their loco Y3 2-8-8-2.

I will have a look at mine when it arrives how I can convert it from 2 rails to 3 rails without using a freight carriage as a carrier of the pickup shoe.





An inside profile from Eureka Models about the Beyer-Garratt:



A potted history of the NSWGR's Garratt



Author: Ian A. Dunn


The NSWGR AD60 class Beyer-Garratt was one of only two 4-8-4+4-8-4 type Garratts in the world. Fifty were ordered from Beyer, Peacock and Co. of Manchester, England, in two batches of 25, the first being placed in service in 1952 and the last in 1957. Principal specifications were 200 lb/sq. in. boiler pressure, 19¼ x 26” cylinders and 4’7” diam. coupled wheels. Modern features included long-travel Walschaerts valve gear, cast one-piece engine beds from the USA, power reverse, mechanical stoker and roller bearings on all axles and on the big end and main driving crankpin bearings. Engines in the initial batch weighed 256 tons, with a maximum axle load of 16½ tons (on the trucks), and produced a starting tractive effort of 59,560lb. After initial service revealed that the 14-ton bunker capacity was insufficient for through runs to Goulburn, the second batch was built with an enlarged coal bunker holding 18 tons of coal, which raised the total weight to 263 tons. The earlier Garratts were altered to conform, but the addition to the back of the bunker was always visible. A number of circumstances conspired to cut delivery of the second batch to 17 complete locos and five sets of spares, so that the class ultimately totalled 42 engines, numbered 6001-6042, Beyer, Peacock builder’s numbers 7473-7497 and 7528-7544. The last to enter service was 6040, on 2 January 1957.

Although ordered as ‘go-anywhere’ units with a branchline axle load, they were initially pressed into intensive mainline service between Enfield and Broadmeadow. Other areas in which they saw extensive service were between Enfield and Goulburn, between Lithgow and Parkes and Dubbo, and up the Hunter Valley as far as Murrurundi. Union bans on running through single-line tunnels precluded their use on the Illawarra and north of Murrurundi, while a deficiency in braking capacity (partially remedied by the fitting of brakes to the inner bogies) made their use on the Blue Mountains uncommon. They reached Narrabri, Werris Creek, Narromine from both Dubbo and Parkes, and ran down the main south beyond Goulburn on occasions, reaching Temora and Narrandera in the south-west.

Thirty locos were modified by the boring out of their cylinders to 19 7/8“ diameter, thus raising their starting tractive effort to 63,000lb, which necessitated the adjustment of the weights so that 18 tons rested on the coupled axles. Those so modified, commonly called ‘Heavy Garratts’, were identified with a ‘‡’ indication after their number on the front and rear. All of these, and a couple of others besides, were also given duplicated driving controls, so that the driver could face the direction of travel when running bunker-first. These were indicated by the addition of a vertical ’DC’ lettering before the front and rear numbers. Other visible modifications were the fitting of ‘sound intensifier tubes’, which ran from cones ahead of the leading truck wheels, across the top of the tank and alongside the boiler to the cab, allowing the crew to hear detonators on the track and the closer placement of the vent pipes on the top of the front tank from very early in the piece. Garratts originally carried a pair of screw jacks above the buffer beam at each end, but these appear to have vanished as the years passed. All were originally fitted with Stone’s electric headlights, but during overhaul in later years some acquired NSWGR standard Pyle National lights.

Maximum permitted speed on main lines was 40mph, although they were quite capable of exceeding 60mph and have hauled the ‘Newcastle Flyer’ in emergency without significant loss of time! The loads hauled by the Beyer-Garratts were substantial. The through load for a ‘heavy’ Garratt from Enfield to Broadmeadow was 650 tons, or 1000 tons if assisted by a Standard Goods 2-8-0 or a 59 class 2-8-2. From Broadmeadow to Muswellbrook, 775 tons was the maximum load, and from there to Murrurundi 650 tons. On the return, 1150 could be taken right through from Murrurundi to Broadmeadow, reducing to 1000 tons on to Enfield and assisted up Cowan Bank. Through loads on the south were 900 tons from Enfield to Goulburn, 560 tons thence to Demondrille, and 825 tons from there on to Wagga Wagga. Loads of 560 tons could be taken to and from Bungendore on the Cooma branch and up to 1400 tons on the Narrandera run. On the west, loads varied from 600 tons up Tumulla Bank’s curvaceous 1 in 40s, west of Bathurst, to 1100 tons between Bathurst and George’s Plains. The through load from Lithgow to Orange was 900 tons, with assistance up Tumulla Bank. In the 1960s, the only permitted instance of double-headed Garratts was on W44 ore concentrate train from Broken Hill to Cockle Creek. This through load of 1020 tons was worked by 49 class diesels to Parkes, thence by a Garratt and a 36 to Molong, where the 36 gave way to a second Garratt for the difficult climb to Orange East Fork. From Orange to Lithgow, the assistant Garratt from Molong, running bunker-first, took the train on alone. Electric haulage was provided between Lithgow and Gosford, with the final leg thence to Cockle Creek in the hands a Garratt and a Standard Goods 2-8-0, a 35 or 36 4-6-0, a 38 class Pacific or a 59 class Mikado. In the late 1960s, double-headed Garratts were permitted between Gosford and Broadmeadow, and were particularly to be seen on the heavy coal working out of Newstan Colliery at Fassifern until steam’s finale at the end of 1972.

When placed in service the Beyer-Garratts were painted black, with single red lining on the tank, bunker and cab side panels, and red buffer beams. Numbers in brass on the cab were to the NSWGR’s standard ‘contractor’s style’. White painted numbers were originally placed on the front buffer beam, but these later migrated to the tank front and changed colour to buff; occasionally both styles co-existed on the same engine. The rear number in buff was always been on the rear of the bunker. After the first overhaul, unrelieved black was the standard livery, usually liberally encrusted with road grime. An exception was 6020, which was specially painted for display at Central station during the NSWGR’s centenary in 1955, with red and cream lining and a silver cab roof. Late in their lives, 6029 and 6039 received the original red lining in conjunction with their use on enthusiast special trains.

The first withdrawal was 6012 in February 1955, as a result of accident damage. Otherwise, withdrawals took place in the mid- to late-1960s, with 6042 being the last to go, on 4 March 1973. The highest mileage reached was by 989,719 by 6009 in a running life of 19 years and 7 months. Four 60 class have been preserved: 6029 by the ARHS Canberra, 6039 and 6042 by the Dorrigo Steam Railway and Museum and 6040 by the NSWRTM at Thirlmere, though, regrettably, none is in running condition

John

When looking at the model one would think so.

another obstacle would be, there is no turntable available to fit this loco onto it.
the overall lenght I've worked out is (34.3 cm - 38.4cm ?) and I think the BR 53.003 had a similar lenght and not suitable for a truntable.

How many of you would be prepared to part with close to a A$ 1000.00 with sound for this loco ?

Video of a Beyer Garratt at the 2010 Coffs Harbour model train show

http://videos.wittysparks.com/id/783842025

John

Probable about $1150 NZD on todays rates

To don't speaking of the south africa Beyer-Garratt which were for metric rails, there were in standard gauge Beyer Garratt in France on the 30s: there were made for the Algerian railroad so call PLM algerien (Algeria was at this time part of the France) and had run in France for test before sending in Algeria
picture here
http://users.powernet.co...hamilton/bgpix/Plmam.jpg

BTW thank you about EUREKA models I don't know before your post and it's HO gauge not OO gauge. Will try some to convert in 3 Rails.
Love the idea to have Australian Railroad on my layout

Being articulated, I'm sure Marklin could make one to go around R1 curves. There would probably be less overhang than with the Bigboy.

I would not worry about fitting in the roundhouse. These monsters would not fit on most turntables anyway, and regularly ran cab-end first. If your layout is big enough to fit a Garratt I think you could probably find a siding somewhere to store it in!

I believe brass

John

Looks like by design this kind of loco can travel equally fast in both directions, so a turntable is not really needed...

Interesting design!

I finally got an overall lenght: 39.5cm, Metal frame and plastic body (2006 model), which is a shame.


Released: October 2006
Model Specification: Length: 395mm/16”; Livery: NSWGR black with optional weathering; Period: 1952- 1970; Features: Metal frame and plastic body; QSI decoder with sound generator which can be used with DCC or analogue DC control; The headlights, and operating sounds can be controlled digitally; Analogue DC version is DCC ready; Sprung buffers; Kadee style couplers; Directional headlights and rear lights; Motor: dual motors in front tank and tender; NRMA profile wheels RP25; over 120 separately applied details.



The loco is very well packaged using a combination of large padded box, as utilised by BLI and PCM, and the wrap around plastic shell that is used by Brawa, Trix and now Bachmann. This ensures that your loco will arrive intact and can be securely transported. Bearing in mind the fragility of the pipe work on this locomotive this is certainly appropriate. The model comes in a choice of ten running numbers or alternatively unnumbered, there is optional sound and factory weathering.

The locomotive is accompanied by a manual plus two additional sheets of instructions. The manual is not well held together and could do with a staple to hold it in place. It is glued together in the way that some note books and calendars are, the type designed so that you can rip pages off. The reason appears to be that the manual is a generic QSI decoder manual which has been sandwiched between Eureka Models covers. There are also a set of brass numbers to apply to the loco and the Quantum decoder wand to activate and deactivate the decoder. The two additional instruction sheets are specific to the Eureka AD60 and contain instructions for decoder installation, characteristics, settings and assembly of the three units.



The locomotive is connected to its tenders by means of 8 pin plugs. This is a similar arrangement to that used on the Trix ICE3 and allows continuous co-ordinated electrical connection between the three units. The problem with this is that if you clip and unclip it often enough the clips loose their ability to hold the loco together. It is best not to do this any more than you absolutely have to.

To assemble the loco the best idea is to put the three units onto the track and then push them together until they click in place. Sounds easy when you put it like that, doesn’t it? It isn’t! The pipework on all three units is very fragile and even the slightest amount of force required to clip the loco to the tender and front tank is sufficient to break some of the pipework if you are not very careful. In the end it only took five minutes at most to do this but when you have a brand new loco which is a major purchase, as this will be for most people, you really do want to get it into action as soon as possible. My problem here was I was very impatient to get the loco up and running so it seemed like forever. This haste could lead to breakage, be warned. I was lucky not to snap of some of the brittle fine plastic pipework. It is difficult to get a firm grip on a part where there is not either fine pipework or running gear.

The manual does say that if you have purchased the DC version that you stand a good chance of breaking some of this pipework when installing a decoder. None the less it does give good instructions on how to dismantle the loco and install the decoder of your choice.



Sound is good, the whistle being accurate; well accurate to how it sounds on a DVD! Not being old enough to have seen them in the flesh my familiarity with the sound of the AD60 is from DVD’s. It does sound pretty good although, as with most digital sound, it is hard to get that deep rumbling bass sound with the small speakers needed to fit inside a loco of this size. I have heard this type of sound reproduced well in larger locos like the Big Boy and Y6b but they have the size to accommodate bigger speakers. The twin speakers are good and provide a reasonable volume of sound, not too loud as with some US outline models. The chuff does go in and out of synch as the different sets of valve gear on the prototype would have. This produces some interesting sounds as the chuffs faze in and out of synch.

Function are; f0 is lights, f2 is the horn, f3 coupler crash, f4 blower, f5 is supposed to be a dynamic break, this is not prototypical but is included in the event that you choose to use the loco in a consist with a diesel, f6 start up sounds when stationary and Doppler effect when mobile, f7 screech on rails, f8 mute, f9 heavy load (this keeps the loco at a steady speed while allowing you to alter the engine sounds with the controller to simulate labouring), f10 is a speed report. Several of the effects seem to do nothing namely f11 and f12 as there are no marker or cab lights. The manual says that function f1 is the bell (if it is an American prototype) and that if there is no bell then this function does nothing! Hmmm! Various other engine and coupling sounds are supplied but the manual doesn’t completely match up with the functions I was getting. The headlight is bright and seems to be on constantly unless of course it is travelling backwards when the rear light will shine.

Pressing f9 twice triggers a system shut down while maintaining steam sounds. The loco will not move and no functions will work. I discovered this by accident while playing with the function buttons before I read the manual. I thought it was faulty until I read the manual later that evening. Pressing f6 twice returns it to normal mode. This, I also discovered by accident. I’m not too big on functions that need pressed twice as there is a lot of scope for doing this in error, as I did, and finding out that you have accidentally activated a feature you didn’t desire, such as a complete system shutdown.


The QSI decoder in this is supposed to be a new improved one. It says in the manual that the loco is supposed to have inertia when it starts off, something which was sorely lacking in the old QSI decoders. While there is, now, a slight inertia, it is certainly not what you would expect from a LokPilot or Lenz Gold or the like. In regard to a gradual deceleration when coming to a stop, there is none. It just abruptly stops dead in its tracks. Sound wise it is an improvement on the old QSI decoder. Overall the sound isn’t bad at all with the whistle being excellent. I have to say am using the whistle a hell of a lot, it really does sound great.

The weathering is not continuous from the locomotive to the tenders as can be seen below. It is a bit different from that seen on the prototype but is nevertheless good for a factory job.


Motion is good although with the articulation and this many wheels you really do want have laid your track well. If you haven’t this is one way of finding out. It goes without saying that this loco will need a reasonably wide curve to operate without problems. It may well do tighter curves but if you have a layout with small curves this is something you may wish to check first. It is stated as being able to run on an 18 inch radius curve.

The loco comes with figures preinstalled in the cab and also has brass running numbers to be separately applied should you wish.

The model has no traction tyres which will be popular with many.

The loco has two motors or to be more accurate, the front water tank and the rear tender have motors. I can see why there has been discussion on the weight and pulling power. The front water tank is not very big and would not allow much space at all for any additional lead weighting. It is possible though. Regardless of how powerful your motor is, it is only effective when that power is transmitted to the track. I tried the AD60 with twelve BLI N&W coal wagons and there were no problems. Having said all that, this only matters if you actually intend to pull very long trains, not everyone who purchases this model will have that requirement. However if you do have the need for long trains then there are a couple of web articles that have some good ideas for doing this.

http://www.nmra.org.au/H...%201/garratt_weight.html

http://www.nmra.org.au/H...01/garratt_weight_2.html

The loco doesn’t have working marker lights although if you are a Swiss watch maker who is up for a challenge you could add this yourself. There is a website below that will show you how should you choose to accept this mission.

http://www.nmra.org.au/H...0%20Markers/Markers.html




One of the main questions asked about this loco will be the price. It is very high. However this is definitely not because Eureka models are making a killing out of this, there are several factors which drive up the price. These are, in no particular order; that it is a unique model where the moulds can only be used for this model and for no other variation; it is an Australian, specifically NSW, model and therefore appeals to a far smaller market than a UK or US loco would; it is a Garratt and this reduces the potential market even further as it is unconventional; it is hardly the easiest model in the world to make and production of a unique complicated model would have been substantially more than that of a conventional pacific or the like.

This is certainly a niche product but for those who appreciate models of this type it is a must buy. It is the only ready to run Garratt model available in HO gauge and to add to that it is well made, well detailed, well designed and has sound and factory weathering. There is unlikely to be a ready to run model produced of any other Garratt in the near future, so for the Garratt locomotive fan currently and for the foreseeable future it is the best on offer and the best you are likely to get. Make no mistake though, this is a quality model and is of a similar standard to those of the American company Broadway Limited.



A recent survey on Model Rail Forum showed that out of over a thousand members eligible to vote a grand total of 30 said they would buy a Garratt model if it was to be made. This unfortunately means that none of the ready to run manufacturers will be likely to be making one soon.

In terms of comparison, this is it. There are no other ready to run Garratt models. If you want an AD60 your options are to make a brass kit made by DJH or the Australian AR kits or buy this. For any other Garratt, DJH offer two further South African models the GMA/M and the GCA.



All in all this is an excellent locomotive. It must have been a major feat to plan, design and build such a unique (in model terms) model from scratch. The finished item is very good and comes with decent sound and acceptable weathering. It should have a broader appeal beyond NSW or indeed Australia for those who are interested in this type of loco. Garratts have a popular attraction to many rail enthusiasts and this is their best chance yet to run one on their own layout. The model certainly captures the bulk and looks of the original well. I have to say this has instantly become my favourite item and has been run almost every day since I got it. Well impressed.


The following are the CV settings which it came with other than CV 1 and 17/18. Some of these seem odd, I will do some playing around with these to see if I can get the inertia settings to improve.
CV Designation Setting
1 2 digit address 30
2 Minimum speed 32
3 Acceleration time 4
4 Braking time 7
5 Top speed 0
6 Middle speed 25
8 Basic setting -
17/18 Extended address 6030
29 Configuration register 4
49 Expanded configuration 31
63 Volume 63




Further reading

The 60 Class
Ken Groves, Harry Wright, Michael Morahn
NSW Rail Transport Museum
1994
ISBN 0 909862 33 8

Garratt Locomotives of the World
A. E. Durrant
David & Charles Geelong
1981
ISBN 0-7153-7641-1

Australia's Garratt
Robert Butrims
Steam Preservation Society
1975
ISBN 0 9598 8322 0 3



AD-60 Garratts built
7473-7497/1952 st/New South Wales Gov. Rly/AD60 4-8-4+4-8-4 6001-6025 Australia
7528-7544/1952 st/New South Wales Gov. Rly/AD60 4-8-4+4-8-4 6026-6042 Australia
7545-7549/1952 st/New South Wales Gov. Rly/AD60 4-8-4+4-8-4 6043-6047 Australia-delivered in pieces as spares



Surviving Garratts in Australia
Number Works Number Original Owner Current Location

G42 BP 6268/1926 Victorian Government Railways PBPS, Belgrave
2 BP 6935/1939 Australian Portland Cement PBPS, Menzies Creek Museum
1009 BP 7349/1950 Queensland Government Railways Ipswich
NG129 BP 7430/1951 South African Railways PBPS, Belgrave
6029 BP 7531/1952 New South Wales Government Railways ARHS, Canberra
6039 BP 7541/1952 New South Wales Government Railways Dorrigo
6040 BP 7542/1952 New South Wales Government Railways RTM, Thirlmere
6042 BP 7544/1952* New South Wales Government Railways Forbes
402 FB 2975/1953 South Australian Railways Zig Zag Rly
409 FB 2982/1953 South Australian Railways National Railway Museum - Port Adelaide
G33 Newport 1945 Australian Portland Cement ARHS, North Williamstown

I'm getting some feedback from an english company DJH regarding price and other details, it comes in a kitform but apparently the instructions are appaling, (2008).

http://www.djhmodelloco....prodloco.asp?ProdID=3072 (kitform)
http://www.djhmodelloco....prodloco.asp?ProdID=3321 (finished model)

John

Great review, John..
Does the Eureka model not have a smoke generator contact?

And... Can we hope to see some pictures?

Personally I think the Garrett is a beautiful and unique locomotive - it's quite unfortunate that because it is so unfamiliar, most prospective buyers probably would not be interested.

I can imagine it will look great running next to the German steamers..

Having been alongside a garrett They are amazing and a wonderful Loco. we had words with a gent who was a fireman on a Queensland Garrett and they were Hand Fired. No Mechanical feed. His recollections and stories were amazing.

Nev

Further to River6109's Great extensive documentation. In this months AMR magazine,in a table it states that;
a) 1 in 50 grade with the springs in above the front trucks the loco will pull 14 + van,
b) 1 in 50 grade without the springs in above the front trucks the loco will pull 16 + van,
c) 1 in 100 grade without the springs in above the front trucks the loco will pull 27 + van.

The above is without any weight added.

My wish list is two for xmas.

The subject of Garrets bring back lotsa memories for me - I was an Apprentice Turner on the old South African Railways (many, many years ago i may add!); after qualifying I was sent to work at the then main steam loco repair depot, and for many years worked on these brutes. The GEA, GMA and GMAM - what a job, crawling along under the frame to take sizes of the way bar shaft eyes, and then turn the bushes, (we had special gear to put on as the dirt, grime and grease was unbelievable!); and the crankpin bushes - massive brass bushes, I think to this day my hands are still knackered from picking up those huge castings to place in the lathe chuck!; altho the GMAM had roller bearings. The most amazing experience was to sit on the footplate while the driver tested the beast - talk about shake rattle and roll, remember we have only a 3ft 6ins gauge in SA, so when the old girl picks up speed it was an awesome feeling - hanging on for for dear life!! They truly were amazing locos!....not always so great to to work on tho!!
M track Joe

Oh YES!!

Hi all, I found this web site about Garratts some time ago and seems like a good reference with some great pictures and info.:

http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/source.html

I see it has recently been updated.

Garrett and the New Zealand Connection:
via Wiki and other sources

Beyer, Peacock built three 4-6-2+2-6-4 NZR G class locomotives in 1928, which were too powerful for the system and had complicated valve mechanisms.
Unusually, these engines had three cylinders (24×16.5 in) on two sets of engine frames, thus creating a six-cylinder Garratt; they were the second and final Garratts to employ this arrangement, the other being the aforementioned LNER U1.
They entered service in 1929.
Walschaerts valve gear operated the outside cylinders with the inner third cylinder linked by a Gresley conjugated valve gear.
Photos verify the coal bunker was carried on an extension to the boiler frame rather than on the rear engine frame, as with most Garratts.
The engines delivered 51,580 lbf (229.44 kN) of tractive effort, which was too powerful for the drawbars on the rolling stock.
After a few years they were rebuilt as six Pacifics, also unsuccessful, but which saw nearly twenty years of service.



Preservation:
Reported: In December 2008, Zimbabwe class 14A Garratt number 509, overhauled in Bulawayo was offloaded in New Zealand for operational preservation by the Main Line Steam trust:
http://www.mainlinesteam.co.nz/locos.html

In fact TWO Garretts have been delivered to Main Line Steam


The 14A at Plimmerton October 2009


The 19D boiler and driving wheels reunited.


The 14A back on its engines and awaiting the tanks.

Morning all

I am a bit late in posting but have to tell you guys that i just bought a GCA Garratt from Rod to be built in 12mm as it should. DJH Kit ref E134. I would not even attemp to do it myself but have a trusted loco builder that can do it. According to trusted sources there is a few trick to make sure it runs well.

Hello!

Does anybody here in the meanwhile have got experiences with modification of this great looking locos to 3-rails for Märklin tracks? I think adding a slider should be not the problem, but what about the RP25 wheels? I think they will create a lot trouble on K-/C-tracks.

Greetings,
Markus

Ditto Tony, well done, shame they're not near Palmy for a look at Easter !! ( When the Euro Mini Conf is on !!)

If M did make one it would bite you one way or another

Garrets were popular, as mentioned before, in countries that ran narrow gauge. That is Africa, Australia, and New Zealand. In HO gauge, that would be 12mm track, whereas 16.5mm is the gauge of Marklin M, K and C track.

The market in these countries is not big enough for Marklin. Africa has a huge population, but most people would not have money for a model train (no offence intended).

Marklin and Trix have already produced a "steam crocodile" in the form of the Big Boy, a US prototype from the Union Pacific Railroad. I don't own one, but I guess it has been really popular. I believe there are good sales for Marklin in both the USA and Europe, but probably better in Europe.

It all comes down to how many they can sell to make a profit.

regards
Kimball

Thanks Rick I'll have a good look around next time I'm down there, Parnell Mainline Steam that is !!