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Offline hxmiesa  
#1 Posted : 16 October 2006 02:41:00(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Hi Guys,

I am building a bridge. Inspirations are the classic stone arch bridges from Faller, Kibri and Vollmer.
The plan is to make the superstructure in wood, and then cover it with plaster and carve out the stone-blocks.
Alternative is to cover it with stone-plate imitations.

The pieces;
UserPostedImage

Assembled;
UserPostedImage

What to do now?
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Ross  
#2 Posted : 16 October 2006 03:28:15(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 896
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Henrik,
If you visit my web page at http://members.ozemail.c...ossstew/rms/friends.html
See John's layout part4 slides 4 & 5, Part8 and Part10 you will see how Des laid individual plaster bricks which he cast in long strips then cut them to size. Be warned this is time consuming but the results are fantastic [:P]
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa
<br />Hi Guys,

I am building a bridge. Inspirations are the classic stone arch bridges from Faller, Kibri and Vollmer.
The plan is to make the superstructure in wood, and then cover it with plaster and carve out the stone-blocks.
Alternative is to cover it with stone-plate imitations.


What to do now?
Ross
Offline HueyCE  
#3 Posted : 16 October 2006 14:28:23(UTC)
HueyCE


Joined: 12/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,528
Location: Groton, Connecticut
Looks good so far.
Ira
Building German Era I-II layout(Mk IIIc).UserPostedImage

Offline Guus  
#4 Posted : 16 October 2006 17:39:28(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi Henrik,

I've seen a similar project in one of Märklins publications.

They did a very convincing job with stone plate imitations from Faller I believe.

Just my two pennies worth of advice...

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline Ross  
#5 Posted : 17 October 2006 02:32:18(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 896
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Henrik,
Another idea is to use modelling clay, role it flat approx 3mm, make an indent with the wood profile then using wood sticks with the end shaped as the face of the bricks at the size you require make an indent of each brick. When you have completed the pattern cast it in plaster, this should be faster than carving hard plaster. Remove the modelling clay and you have a complete side. Make any refinements then using latex rubber make a rubber mould of your plaster casting, you can now make the other side and you have the rubber mould for another bridge at some later time.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa
<br />Hi Guys,

I am building a bridge. Inspirations are the classic stone arch bridges from Faller, Kibri and Vollmer.
The plan is to make the superstructure in wood, and then cover it with plaster and carve out the stone-blocks.
Alternative is to cover it with stone-plate imitations.

Ross
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 17 October 2006 09:44:23(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,723
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus
<br />Hi Henrik,

I've seen a similar project in one of Märklins publications.

They did a very convincing job with stone plate imitations from Faller I believe.

Just my two pennies worth of advice...

Kind regards
Guus


Guus, I think this is the bridge you are talking about. Apparently it was made with wood scraps and imitation masonry sheets.

UserPostedImage

Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 21:08:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline hxmiesa  
#7 Posted : 17 October 2006 17:33:09(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Small update:

No photos yet, sorry...

Well, I finally decided to go with plaster.
It was a disaster! :-(((
I didnt blind out the arches well enough before pouring in the plaster, and on top of
that I ran out of plaster halfway. The plaster also dried much too fast for me to work
properly.

Anyway...

After drying totally, I succeded in freeing up the arches, but the structure is full of
air-bubbles (now holes). It doesnt look too well, and I have doubts about being able to
fill it up with another batch of plaster.
I did some test-grating on the sides, and I think I could reach a reasonable result that
way, but for the moment the problem is filling it up inside and underside... :-/

Keep the advices coming, please (thanks to all of you!) ;-)

Note:
I need/want to get experience and solucions using plaster. NOT masonry paper/folios. Not
miniature bricks and prepferably not rubber-molds either. I am trying to go the way of
grating DRY (or semi-dry) plaster, as that is what I want to do later when making other
supports and rock-structures... I need huge amounts of this stuff, for decorating my mini-
Miniature Wunderland ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline nevw  
#8 Posted : 18 October 2006 03:10:22(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Henrik,
a Teaspoon of Vinegar in the plaster when mixing will slow down the drying.
Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline uluozgur  
#9 Posted : 18 October 2006 10:26:05(UTC)
uluozgur


Joined: 07/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: ANKARA,
One of my friends use dentist's plaster for making models. There are two advantages:
1. The mould (dentist's mold) is a gel like substance. You mix it with water and cover the surface you want to copy. After a few minutes, it becomes harder but still like a gel. Also it is a very fine mould so that you can copy fingerprint details.

2. The dentist's plaster is also a very fine plaster and can re-create every detail in the mould. Also it becomes very hard after drying preventing scratches in the future.

Both mould and plaster should be available from medical suppliers. The prices are not very high in Ankara, Turkey. The only problem is that mould will be usable only for a few times, than starts tearing. If you can find or prepare a wall detail you want to copy from, you can mass-produce very detailed copies easily.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 18 October 2006 11:12:31(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,723
Location: New Zealand
One option I have heard of is to build the bridge out of MDF type wood sheets, then score the stone / brick pattern into the wood with a sharp knife or a Dremel type tool. Or you could make some imitation bricks from cardboard, or blasa wood and glue them to your framework

Another option is to make the bridge from Polystyrene, and then glue real pebbles to it.

Still another option is to use modelers clay against a wooden formwork (may take a while to dry).

And from left field, build some formwork and pour the thing in concrete - hey it would never collapse under a train!!

I've never tried any of these, so I have absolutely no idea as to their effectiveness.
Offline hxmiesa  
#11 Posted : 18 October 2006 11:51:50(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by nevw
a Teaspoon of Vinegar in the plaster when mixing will slow down the drying.


Argh, Nev... Cant stand the smell (or taste) of vinegar!!! :-*
-But it´s a good trick!

@uluozgur; I dont think so... I plan on using 50-100kg of the stuff, so any medical class material will be out of the question. (price!)

I´m thinking of making some walls using a form. (modelling clay like Ross says), but I am trying to do it the "Bernhard Stein way". I have some of his how-to videos. It looks so easy when he does it! ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Purellum  
#12 Posted : 24 October 2006 05:28:25(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,508
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by nevw
a Teaspoon of Vinegar in the plaster when mixing will slow down the drying.
Interesting!!! My daily work is being electrician on a plasterboard-factory. ( www.gyproc.com )

We use approx. 2.000 tons of gypsum every week, do you want some? biggrinbiggrinbiggrin

Seriously: We use a "retarder" called "Proxmat" to slow down and control drying.

It is a "kalkbinder" ( Danish/German word ), controlling the lime in the water.

The active ingredient is "Nitrilotrieddikesyre" (Nitrilo triacetic acid, NTA ), which is NOT an acid. ( Ph. = 11,5 in a 1% solution. )

Note: In its pure form, NTA can cause cancer! No problem after mixing with gypsum. ( Google for safety info! )

In our recipe we use about 1,5 liter for 20 tons of gypsum. ( 1 hour production! ) ( biggrin )

If you Google, you will find that NTA and similar are used in detergents to control the "hardnes" of the water.

An other important factor is the water temperature: Hot water means fast drying, cold water means slow.

Also the kind of gypsum is important, basicly the cheapest is the most difficult to control.
More crystalised water left in the gypsum means faster drying.
Using a filling compound is easier than pure gypsum, more expensive; but different
additives as glue and NTA already present.

About the bubbles/holes: You mixed the air in yourself! Using a little more water,
and vibrating before use, should help avoiding this problem.

We use soap to make a foam, which we mix with gypsum,
in order to fill the plasterboards with small holes, to make them lighter.


I hope this will help you a little!

Per.



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline shannon  
#13 Posted : 24 October 2006 08:22:52(UTC)
shannon


Joined: 27/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 347
Location: Taipei,
great! it looks like an authenic stone bridge

i also noticed BR45 weathered. does anyone know if marklin would release new version in MFX decoder except 37450/34450
Offline hxmiesa  
#14 Posted : 24 October 2006 21:33:55(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
@Purellum; excellent information, thanks!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline intruder  
#15 Posted : 25 October 2006 00:32:46(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Hi everybody

Interesting project, Henrik. Keep us informed.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 28 October 2006 04:56:01(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,723
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa
<br />
I need/want to get experience and solucions using plaster. NOT masonry paper/folios. Not
miniature bricks and prepferably not rubber-molds either. I am trying to go the way of
grating DRY (or semi-dry) plaster, as that is what I want to do later when making other
supports and rock-structures... I need huge amounts of this stuff, for decorating my mini-
Miniature Wunderland ;-)


Henrik, you could consider using Hydrocal, which is produced by Woodland Scenics. Check this site out: http://www.cccrow.com/main-pages/how-to.html . The author shows how he makes models out of Hydrocal - there's a lot of useful information here.
Offline hxmiesa  
#17 Posted : 29 October 2006 09:30:53(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Mini-uodate (Still no photos, sorry)

Well, inspired by Purellums comment, I went down to the basement, searching for the left over "gyps" (or whatever ;-) from the guy who installed the plasterwall dividing the garrage and trainroom.

First of all I thought this is great stuff! -because it dried VERY slowly. After 2 hours it was like modellers clay!

Alas it turned out to be another mistake, because when drying, it shrinked quite a lot, leaving great cracks in the structure! :-(

@Bigdaddynz; thanks, I will investigate teh link, although I prefer materiel readily available from the local hardware-store ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#18 Posted : 29 October 2006 09:58:51(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,723
Location: New Zealand
Cheers Henrik. I'm interested to see your progress, as this is an issue that has interested me for some time. Hope it all goes well.

I don't know what is available in Spain, but here in NZ we have available from hardware stores plaster board stopping compound, which is available in different drying times, 20 minutes, 45 minutes, 60 minutes and 90 minutes. Being stopping compound it doesn't shrink either. We also have casting plaster in 20kg bags for around $18. The stopping compound costs around $15 for a 5kg bag. You might be able to find something similar at your hardware store.

The advantage with Hydrocal is that it is quite lightweight, doen't shrink, and when dry, it can be softened up again with a bit of water, if changes need to be made.
Offline hxmiesa  
#19 Posted : 29 October 2006 10:48:32(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
@Bigdaddynz; yes, that is the stuff that the plaster-board guy left behind. They are two different 20kg bags. Even from reading the specifications on each bag, I couldnt make out what was what. It looked like one was a filler and the other a binder or something. I think I might have used the binder though... (Now I feel like an idiot :-( )

You are spot on with the pricing. That is the MAIN reason why I want to go this way. Even without having read about hydrocal yet, I dont think it is available at less than a 1€/kg?! (It being softened up by water again doesnt appeal to me though...)

As I said before; this whole exercise is to gain experience enough to do the WHOLE bloody landscaping this way. There are some 20m2 to be covered, eventually!
I also test-cast a natural stone "wall". Later I will show the result also...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Purellum  
#20 Posted : 29 October 2006 12:37:56(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,508
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Hello Henrik.

Sorry that it didn't work out. Actually gypsum/plaster expands a little while it hardens and then shrinks while it dries.

Almost everything mixed with water shrinks when drying, also the filler or stopping, and the more
water you have in, the more it shrinks.

When you build with plasterboard, you reinforce the joints with gauze to avoid cracks,
and when you have a plaster bandage on a broken limp, the strength in the bandage comes
from the gauze, not the plaster.

In plasterboard, most of the strength comes from the cardboard, and most products are reinforced
by mixing 2-3 cm pieces of glasfiber into the plaster.

This was meant as general information; in your case I think that while the plaster shrinks
a little while drying, your woodwork expands from the water, making it a double problem.

Thoughts but not solutions:

Cast all in one: Would need reinforcement, heavy!

Multiple layers of plasterboard, cut like the profile of the bridge ( like your woodwork. ), and then
glued together. This would also be heavy, but strong due to the layers of cardboard.
On this you should be able to apply a layer of plaster.

Keep on trying!

Per.


If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline hxmiesa  
#21 Posted : 29 October 2006 19:15:54(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
@Purellum; incredible insight, or I just have a lot to learn! ;-)
Well, as I am writing this, the last fill-up of plaster (this time I used the other bag) is now drying, and with that the structure is completely filled up with plaster. Later I will have to add a thin layer to fill out all cracks and holes there might still be.
It is still not totally dry from yesterdays filling; Either the stuff was not plaster, or it takes more than 24H to dry totally.

It is pretty heavy. around 2 kg I would pressume. (not a problem)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Purellum  
#22 Posted : 30 October 2006 14:28:25(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,508
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Hello Henrik.

Not so much insight, just been on this factory for 5 years now. [:I]

Gypsum hardens ( Danish: afbinder. ) in 10-15 minuttes, but only uses
a certain amount of water. All extra water will have to evaporate, thus
the relative long time to dry. When used under "normal" conditions, the
surrounding building materials will absorb the extra water, making it dry faster.
In production of plasterboard the plates are dryed in a very large oven for one hour.
( 100 m long, 3 m wide, 10 levels high, continual operation, &gt; 250 degrees celsius. )

Per.


If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline hxmiesa  
#23 Posted : 01 April 2007 13:29:25(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Update on progress:

The bridge has finally been fully plastered;
UserPostedImage

As one maybe can see, the result is far from "nice and clean".

After the plaster is totally dry, each individual stone is cut (engraved) on the surface.
Also far form nice and clean. Actually it is NOT up to standards;
UserPostedImage

On the extreme closeup above, all the errors are easy to see. In real life the result isnt really that bad to look at, but alas does not stand up to closer inspection.

For the moment I will go with it though, but maybe in the future I will substitute it for the equivalent Kibri kit.

With a little luck I will finish the project during the easter holidays.
Oh well...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#24 Posted : 01 April 2007 13:40:29(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,723
Location: New Zealand
Henrik, 'Errors' not withstanding, your bridge looks fantastic, way better than I would have thought. I'd love to know how you formed the inside of the arches - balsa wood maybe?? The weathering looks good too, and the advantage with plaster is that if you break it you can repair it again. What did you use to do the engraving, and how are you going to do the inside of the arches? What colours did you use?? -looks like a mixture of black and brown.
Offline hxmiesa  
#25 Posted : 01 April 2007 14:02:57(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz
<br />Henrik, 'Errors' not withstanding, your bridge looks fantastic, way better than I would have thought. I'd love to know how you formed the inside of the arches - balsa wood maybe?? The weathering looks good too, and the advantage with plaster is that if you break it you can repair it again. What did you use to do the engraving, and how are you going to do the inside of the arches? What colours did you use?? -looks like a mixture of black and brown.


Thanx for your quick answer. (I feel like I have jsut hit the "Post..." button ;-)

Answers; (I´ll try)

I formed the inside with a plastic "spatula" (stirring-pins for automatic coffee machines)
I then cut/filed/sanded away the material, until it was reasonably round. (The wooden inside defining "round".)
It was very difficult, and the main reason for the delay of the project.
NOT recomendable.

I use nails for engraving (a big one and a smaller one). Makes my fingers hurt. (Ehm... I mean nails for hammering, not the ones at the end of my fingers... ;-)

The inside will only be done for the outermost bricks. The rest of the inside is practically impossible to see, and definatly impossible to engrave.

The most interesting thing is the colour!!!
It is a trick that I learned from the spanish user-group MärklinCafé.
It is a stuff called "Betún de Judea".
I dont know what it is exactly, but it is for "weathering" and "ageing" of plaster sculptures, wood (like furnitures and sculptures) and metal.
The information on the bottle doesnt say what the stuff consists off, other than it is a "petrolium based paint", but I tried it out on a piece of wood, and the effect was astonnishing!
For the bridge I think it is too dark.
Powerful stuff, this!

Edit; I tried Googling for it, and it looks like if it is based on tar. Maybe other spanish-speakers can help out here?
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#26 Posted : 01 April 2007 14:15:59(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,723
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa
<br />I formed the inside with a plastic "spatula" (stirring-pins for automatic coffee machines)


Or 'iceblock sticks' as we call them here. Very clever solution. I was looking at your bridge, and at Alberto's and wondering how you ever got those perfectly formed arches, now I know.

Thanks for your reply.
Offline steventrain  
#27 Posted : 01 April 2007 14:56:01(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,661
Location: United Kingdom
Very good work.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline hxmiesa  
#28 Posted : 07 April 2007 13:42:21(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Bridge "finished";

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Still missing details like railings, but I´ll wait with that... (too fragile)


Now I´m using the same method for making at least two other support walls.
One LONG (130cm) one for the alpine station, and later another very HIGH one for the apporach to the alpine station.

Here´s the initial workings;

UserPostedImage
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#29 Posted : 07 April 2007 14:05:50(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,723
Location: New Zealand
Looking really good, Henrik.
Offline nevw  
#30 Posted : 07 April 2007 14:07:12(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Henrik,
The bridge may not up to your standards but, why I do not know. To use mere mortals it is magnificent. In real life no structure of any age is perfect. biggrin

Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline steventrain  
#31 Posted : 07 April 2007 17:20:16(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,661
Location: United Kingdom
Very good!
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Zora la rousse  
#32 Posted : 07 April 2007 22:51:02(UTC)
Zora la rousse


Joined: 02/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 856
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa
<br />Bridge "finished";
UserPostedImage

Very artistic pictureSmile! It looks like that both bridges are counterparts.
You are never too late to become a Märklin fan.
Offline hxmiesa  
#33 Posted : 08 April 2007 21:37:37(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Stonewall finished!

The methods and experiments with the bridge, is paying off! The wall has almost none of
the errors encountered when working on the bridge!

The totally engraved/grated(?) wall was first painted grey with an acryllic paint;
UserPostedImage

It was then "weathered" with diluted "Betun de Judea"; (it´s very thin; you smear it on,
wait 1-2 minuttes, and then wipe it clean with a cloth) (a wash (heavily diluted paint)
with black acryllic paint could also be used)
UserPostedImage

The finished wall in its place at the alpine station;
UserPostedImage


I have now developped a specific method for producing these walls, with a result that
satisfies me.
I dont pretend to be an expert on this, after these few works, but the method is good for
somebody who needs flexibility and cost of materials close to 0,-!
Here is how I do it;

1) Build a rough model in wood/carton. (usually some left-over pieces will do)

2) Cover every visible part with a VERY THIN film of white glue (wood glue)
This is important so that the plaster will adhere well to the wood, also when grating.
Dont get plaster and glue mixed up, which will make it IMPOSSIBLE to grate the plaster! (bridge problem #1)

3) Cover every visible part with plaster. Around 1mm thickness will do, but not less.
Thick layers of plaster wil do also, but there is always the risque of cracks and
holes. Better to have a more accurate model of wood inside. (bridge problem #2)

4) When totally dry, grate the stones. First horizontal lines, which can be made using a
ruler. Vertical lines must be made stone by stone. This is very tedius, and seems to take
forever. Grating can hurt hands and fingers.
Dont worry about some cornes breaking off, cracks showing up, etc. during the grating.
This is exactly what makes for such a realistic result!

5) Paint everything with a diluted paint.

6) Weather everything with a HEAVILY diluted black paint. (Or the "magical" Betun de
Judea); Apply generously, wait, wipe off with cloth. (bridge problem #3)

Finished!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Purellum  
#34 Posted : 08 April 2007 23:00:41(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,508
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Glad to see progress!! Nice work, Henrik.

Per.
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline steventrain  
#35 Posted : 08 April 2007 23:36:40(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,661
Location: United Kingdom
Excellent paint.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#36 Posted : 09 April 2007 00:40:30(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,723
Location: New Zealand
Thanks for the tips Henrik. The wall looks awesome, and in spite of your reservations, I still think the bridge looks great.
Offline nevw  
#37 Posted : 09 April 2007 01:01:37(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Awesome.
Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline mz_1414  
#38 Posted : 09 April 2007 01:59:21(UTC)
mz_1414


Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 413
Location: ,
Nice work, Henrik.
Offline Rowan  
#39 Posted : 09 April 2007 22:49:41(UTC)
Rowan


Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,278
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Giday mate. Henrick , you were saying earlier that your bridge was not quite "nice and clean";and "error".
This bridge you have built is a great model.
I don't how, but in the end the little problems seem to blend into a finished scene.
Some times they even enhance it.
Great thread ya got here; bridge(11 out of 10)...
life is coolCool
Smile
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#40 Posted : 15 April 2007 07:28:20(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Looks great! Sometimes I like to add vegetation / vines to my walls to make them a little less "concrete". First you dilute glue 50/50 with water. Then spray it on the area you want vines. Then let the glue mixture work its way through the cracks....then sprinkle woodland scenics green grass (the powdery stuff no too coarse) then just shake off excess. Adds a good look. Or not...it looks great the way it is! Good Work!
Offline kimballthurlow  
#41 Posted : 15 April 2007 07:36:56(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,691
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Dear Hxmiesa,
The Spanish conquered South America, and middle America, and now they conquer the mountains of model-dom.
Well done, excellent modelling, and a great incentive for us to "have-a-go, mate" as we say in Australia. Cool
regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline hxmiesa  
#42 Posted : 15 April 2007 11:35:24(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by CCS800KrokHunter3
<br />Looks great! Sometimes I like to add vegetation / vines to my walls to make them a little less "concrete". First you dilute glue 50/50 with water. Then spray it on the area you want vines. Then let the glue mixture work its way through the cracks....then sprinkle woodland scenics green grass (the powdery stuff no too coarse) then just shake off excess. Adds a good look. Or not...it looks great the way it is! Good Work!

You are absolutly right! However, Vegetation is still some time off. Only basic weathering is done at this point.
(As you can see on the photos, everything is still open ramps)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline hxmiesa  
#43 Posted : 15 April 2007 11:39:47(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by kimballthurlow
The Spanish conquered South America, and middle America, and now they conquer the mountains of model-dom.
Well done, excellent modelling, and a great incentive for us to "have-a-go, mate" as we say in Australia. Cool

Thanks mate Kimball.
Although I would like to remind you, that the SCANDINAVIANS conquered most of northern europe, and even found the Americas 100´s of years before anybody else.
They even reached as far down in europe as Spain.
-And they still do! ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline ulf999  
#44 Posted : 15 April 2007 22:40:18(UTC)
ulf999


Joined: 12/05/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,908
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Great work Henrik!
Ulf, American HO. www.goldenvalleyroute.com/
Offline DaleSchultz  
#45 Posted : 16 April 2007 04:09:24(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
great !
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline kimballthurlow  
#46 Posted : 16 April 2007 12:59:29(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,691
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi hmiesa,
So the Scandinavians still come there for holidays?
Maybe they are spies sent to plan the next invasion.
They have had nearly 1000 years to prepare since the last time.

Of course maybe it is because they can get cheap Marklin in Spain.
regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline hxmiesa  
#47 Posted : 17 April 2007 11:51:50(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by kimballthurlow
So the Scandinavians still come there for holidays?

They sure do, but I live here permanently.
Sorry to say that living and working here is not as glorious as spending your holidays here...
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
Maybe they are spies sent to plan the next invasion.

If I told you, I would have to kill you. (So I wont tell you, okay? ;-)
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
They have had nearly 1000 years to prepare since the last time.

Judging by the size and importance of the scandinavian countries today, I dont think they
are in a position to invade anybody. But I think they ARE trying to conquer the world in
terms of functional design and meatballs. (IKEA has both, although the danes are also
very proud of THEIR particular versions of the same things)
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
Of course maybe it is because they can get cheap Marklin in Spain.

Well, actually, I think Spain is a great train-modelling nation! Certain shops in
Barcelona stands up to the comparison with big and famous german shops! -in price,
service and availability/stock ;-)
Here are also several "famous" (at least in spanish-speaking countries) brands here;
Electrotren (okay, we all know that one)
Ibertren (anybody still remember this one? -well, it has re-appeared with some very
highly detailed spanish rolling stock. 2-rail)
Aneste (a kind of Preiser/Busch/Brawa accesory producer)
Tecnotren (catenaria in spanish style. Metal construction!)
-well, just to mention a few...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline kimballthurlow  
#48 Posted : 17 April 2007 13:35:54(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,691
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Yes, well I guess Australia has good model shops too.
In Brisbane, Sydney, and Melbourne (and maybe Perth and Adelaide), we have shops exclusively for trains. There are many shops who do trains, PLUS all other models.
Marklin is available at only a few shops, but that is OK, because it is not as popular as USA and English models.
We can purchase sometimes, your Electrotren and Ibertrens, but not in large quantities. Some of the Spanish wood sided coach models were very close in appearance to the Australian prototype.
Anyway, you have shown us some good tips on how to maximize the Marklin layout.
regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline hxmiesa  
#49 Posted : 22 April 2007 13:10:58(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Spain
More walls,

Yet another wall has been finished (part of a tunnel-entrance);
UserPostedImage

This time I think the result DOES stand up to closer inspection;
UserPostedImage

The improvement compared to the previos wall, is that I mixed in some grey paint directly
in the plaster! (The previous grey wall was painted over with the acryllic paint, which
seems to fill up all the small pores, and thus smoothening/degrading the details.)

A sneak previev of the next wall (a very high support with arches, with a steep drop down of around 50cm (the wall is "only" 30cm, the rest will be rocks/mountain);
UserPostedImage
-it is part of the access to the alpine station, and I hope it will be very spectacular ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline kimballthurlow  
#50 Posted : 22 April 2007 13:38:52(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,691
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Henrik,
The last wall set looks so real, it must weigh about 90 tonnes.
I have re-read your articles, and may try some custom walling myself.

Apart from the vertical scribing (which is tedious), you seem to have found a pretty easy method.
regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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