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Offline Joseph Meiring  
#1 Posted : 27 March 2011 15:18:17(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,165
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
I have the express coaches (24cm) 4052, 4054, 4026, and 4053-the one with the tail lights and slider. They are from the mid 70's, and in excellent condition. Will the 4053 coach with the slider work on a digital layout?
Which interior lighting sets can be fitted to these coaches to be able to run on a digital layout?
Are there interior lighting sets available for the newer 43019 Passenger Car Set?
Thanx as always, in anticipation........Joe
Offline trainbuff  
#2 Posted : 27 March 2011 16:24:55(UTC)
trainbuff


Joined: 26/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 507
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Originally Posted by: Joe Meiring Go to Quoted Post
I have the express coaches (24cm) 4052, 4054, 4026, and 4053-the one with the tail lights and slider. They are from the mid 70's, and in excellent condition. Will the 4053 coach with the slider work on a digital layout?


I think the 4053 should work on a digital layout. I have older coaches with pre-digital interior lights and they work on my digital layout (ms1). When converting a locomotive to digital is usually when you have to change the lights.

Originally Posted by: Joe Meiring Go to Quoted Post
Which interior lighting sets can be fitted to these coaches to be able to run on a digital layout?


<edit> see Western Pacific's post below. sorry.

Originally Posted by: Joe Meiring Go to Quoted Post
Are there interior lighting sets available for the newer 43019 Passenger Car Set?


I didn't see a lighting kit for 43019 on Marklin web page, but you maybe able to make something fit, like these: https://www.marklin-user...buchse-4313-and4314.aspx . I eventually powered the lights using the locomotive slider and current conducting couplers because the slider on the coaches did not work well: https://www.marklin-user...7030---nice-feature.aspx Some folks who post here have put a relay in their locomotive to power the lights in their coaches.

Originally Posted by: Joe Meiring Go to Quoted Post
Thanx as always, in anticipation........Joe


Good Luck!
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Offline Western Pacific  
#3 Posted : 27 March 2011 16:28:41(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Short answer - Yes.

The slider is most likely 7198 and it should work just fine.

Märklin indicates light unit 7077 for 4026, 4027, 4032, 4044, 4051, 4052, 4111 and 4112. 7320 is indicated as suitabale for 4085 and 4087. This means that I believe you vould need 7077 and slider 7198, at least for your 4026. In order to determine if a coach can use 7320, you need to take the roof off and if the tin-plate segments that join th outer walls are just straight from wall to wall then 7320 won't work. There is a need that those tin-plate segments are shaped like a U and going down several millimetres in order have room for the 7320.
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 27 March 2011 18:21:48(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,474
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: trainbuff Go to Quoted Post
I have older coaches with pre-digital interior lights and they work on my digital layout (ms1). When converting a locomotive to digital is usually when you have to change the lights.

The light bulbs for analogue operation (up to 16 V track voltage, varying with the speed) can became too hot on digital layouts (up to 22 V constant track voltage (*)).
No problem for tin-plate coaches, but could do harm to plastic parts (e.g. the transparent plastic bar that distributes the light).

Lights bulbs will have a reduced life-time. So when replacing failed light bulbs, you should go for the "digital" types (22 V).

(*) a 16 V AC transformer will give you a higher track voltage than an 18 V DC power supply
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline LionelMPC  
#5 Posted : 27 March 2011 18:47:04(UTC)
LionelMPC


Joined: 03/05/2005(UTC)
Posts: 213
Location: Washington state, USA
I have six of the tinplate 24cm coaches on my layout, late 50s to late 60s vintage. All of them have the 7077 lights and 7198 slider. I use a 6021, and I've had no problem at all, not even a burnt out bulb. I think HO has good advice to change over to the 22v bulb as they burn out though, I will do that in the future. The softer light is more realistic anyway. Basically though, I think you should have no problem.

-James
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Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 27 March 2011 18:47:40(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,250
Location: Montreal, QC
Sorry for the diverging opinion, but I do not think that it is 100% safe to use older lighted coaches on a digital layout. The reason for my concern is that the analog system was designed to operate between 0 and 16VAC with momentary surges of 23V to operate the reverse mechanism of the loks. There is a risk that the constant voltage of 18VAC used in digital layouts will create a situation where the lightbulbs will be brighter, hotter and may cause the plastic light channel inside the coach to melt and deform. I have seen this on a few 26.4-27cm coaches from the 1980's that I tested with my 6021. I would therefore recommend that bulbs with a higher voltage limit be installed in place of the ones delivered with the original lighting kit, so that the light is not so bright and the risk of damage to plastic inside the coach (and to the paint) is reduced.
In plastic coaches, overheating of the illumination can result in melting of spots on the coach body, making the change of bulbs more essential.
It should be possible to replace the original Maerklin lighting with the new LED lighting, attaching the light strips to the roof of the coach using the two sided tape provided. All that you would have to adapt is the contacts on the wires from the slider and to attach the other contact to the coach body (metal coaches) or to a ground contact (Hag also makes a wheel contact with similar mount under the number 519 which can be installed on the other bogie).
For the metal bogies of the 24cm and similar metal coaches, I have found the Hag slider #518 (for the old generation) to be an ideal replacement for the original Maerklin slider. The Hag part attaches to the inside of the pins which allow to bogie panels to move up and down, and also result in the slider having more play and maintaining better contact with the center rail.

518 Mittelschleifer WS für alle Wagen der alten Generation (Frotteur central pour voitures-voyageurs, anc. gén). The price is between 6 and 10 CHF (SFr).

See: http://cgi.ebay.de/HAG-S...fer-Nr-518-/180622238021

Regards

Mike C
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Offline trainbuff  
#7 Posted : 27 March 2011 19:57:59(UTC)
trainbuff


Joined: 26/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 507
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
You all got me thinking you maybe right. I have noticed my Wurttemberg express coaches get pretty warm and I'm sure they have old light bulbs in them. Looking in the 2009-2010 catalog for lighting kit 7333 (for express train 26556) it recommends bulb 61 0080 (22v) for continuous use in digital system. Ok, that's an easy fix, but for lighting kits 7077 and 7320 there are no 22 volt bulbs listed, only 19 volt bulbs listed. The only 22 volt bulb listed in that catalog doesn't look like it would fit. Any ideas other than LED strips? And for my 4032 (which maybe just like Joes' 4053) with built in tail lights, what 22v bulb would fit there?
thanks.
Offline Western Pacific  
#8 Posted : 27 March 2011 20:33:32(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
To add to my previous answer.

I haven't rum my old tin-plate coaches that much, but would the higher voltage become an issue then I've had an idea to just put a simple full-wave rectifier bridge in each coach having 7077. That means the current would always go through two diodes and that reduces the volatage by approximately 1.4 V. If that would still be too much then I'd add diodes on the DC side. If I add 2 diodes, the total forward voltage drop is 2.8 V, which would take down the 22 V of the digital system to 19.2 V.

For the 7320 I would probably look att converting it to having LEDs instead. An alternative that I've been thinking of is to use LEDs from BRAWA house lighting kits 3401 or just modify the 7320 and solder the metal lampholder parts to it. (This may require a serial resistor or diod bridge and diodes as for the 7077 lamps - I haven't tested this yet).
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 27 March 2011 21:39:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,474
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
There is a risk that the constant voltage of 18VAC used in digital layouts [...]

Using e.g. a CU 6021 and a 16 V transformer you get a constant track voltage of about 22 Volts (and that's why you find "22 V~" written on each current loco box).

So the voltage is 35 through 40 % higher in digital. And AFAIK the current will also be 35 through 40 % higher leading to about 90 % more heat than with analogue full speed operation.

It's less dangerous with DC power supplies (18 or 19 V DC).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline rschaffr  
#10 Posted : 27 March 2011 22:19:28(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,193
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Sorry for the diverging opinion, but I do not think that it is 100% safe to use older lighted coaches on a digital layout. The reason for my concern is that the analog system was designed to operate between 0 and 16VAC with momentary surges of 23V to operate the reverse mechanism of the loks. There is a risk that the constant voltage of 18VAC used in digital layouts will create a situation where the lightbulbs will be brighter, hotter and may cause the plastic light channel inside the coach to melt and deform. I have seen this on a few 26.4-27cm coaches from the 1980's that I tested with my 6021. I would therefore recommend that bulbs with a higher voltage limit be installed in place of the ones delivered with the original lighting kit, so that the light is not so bright and the risk of damage to plastic inside the coach (and to the paint) is reduced.


What I have done is put a current limiting resistor in series with the light bulb in each coach. I guess a higher voltage bulb would have been an easier solution. Blushing
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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