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Offline fvri  
#1 Posted : 23 March 2011 17:01:54(UTC)
fvri


Joined: 07/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 773
Location: Zwevezele,
Hi all,

Currently when I try to read out the address of a loc when it set on the programming track my ECoS goes immediately into stop mode.
I have resetted my ECoS system a few times but the problem remains. Could it be that something has broken inside like a fuse? Can I easily very this. My system is no longer in warranty.

What (else) could be the issue?

Best regards,
Frank
Offline dntower85  
#2 Posted : 23 March 2011 17:17:37(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Frank,

Can you run a loc with a known address on the programming track? Turn on and off lights?

Did an update give the ability to set the amps to the programing track, if so maybe it set to 0ma? I know you can set the amps of the internal booster to the main track and to external boosters.

I'm eager to try LocComander with my new 50200 as soon as I can get an Ethernet cable up to the layout and sort some other problems out.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 23 March 2011 17:54:18(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,499
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Frank,

all three rails must be insulated between main and programming track. With C track the outer rails could have contact even with these red plastic thingies installed (you'll get a short whenever you try to program a loco).
So if you have a connection between main and programming track, remove it temporarily to make sure the problem is not there.
Or a still better test: connect nothing to the ECoS except power and programming track and see what happens.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Caralain  
#4 Posted : 23 March 2011 21:30:35(UTC)
Caralain

United States   
Joined: 15/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 301
Location: Bay Area, California
Hi Frank:

The same happened to me just after having downloaded the update 3.4.0. I thought first it was a bug of the software until I checked the cables in the back. I had just inverted them LOL Maybe you should check if they are properly connected into their correct sockets. You never know!

Cheers,

Pierre
Offline fvri  
#5 Posted : 23 March 2011 22:29:57(UTC)
fvri


Joined: 07/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 773
Location: Zwevezele,
Hi all,

Thanks for all the suggestions.

So in fact it worked until sudden, also I didn't do recently a software update. The train does not run nor can any function be actived when it is stationed on my programming track. But I can still run my train on the normal layout! But it is not possible to use this track for programming.
So Tom & Pierre in fact I did the test without the programming track connected to ECoS and still it fails! So it really seems that something is short circuited in the ECoS itself. I even unplugged the powerfeeding cables and plug from the ECoS for the programming track.
I must say that I did put the programming track on my C rails when it happened that the ECoS when to the stop state. Normally my programming track is stationed next to my layout but this time I had it placed on my C rails. But I supposed this was isolated in someway...
So maybe eventually something has short circuited when I started the address searching sequence on my ECoS?

Worst case I can still program some of the functions with my M6021, most important for me is that I can give another address to a loc.

Another question I have, when you have at least 2 locs with the same address in your ECoS it is not possible to control them anymore? Then some symbol 1-80 comes in the train control dialog. Can this be solved? Or should each loc be given a unique address? For MFX locs I could probably give an address higher than 80. But then my programming should work again :)

Darrin good luck with your ECoS II setup, enjoy it!
Lately I'm very occupied with running, on the 10th April I'm running my first marathon in Paris(France). So not that long away from the ultimate running dream! The training program is almost finished and the body is in pretty good shape to start the battle :). Unfortunately I didn't had anytime to work further on LocCommander.
In fact the only modelwork I did was the blast furnance. It is almost finished I will post soon some photo's of it!

Thanks again for the replies.

I will try to get more debugging info for you guys in the coming days. Darren also have a look at the amps! I also read now your topic on the problem you were facing with the ECoS but as it worked without changing things to any of my settings nor a software update I think it is a hardware failure...(of coarse as I'm a software guy, always blame the other party, this is also in my professional life as a SW development engineer :)).

Best regards,
Frank

Edited by user 24 March 2011 10:15:08(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline fvri  
#6 Posted : 24 March 2011 22:04:21(UTC)
fvri


Joined: 07/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 773
Location: Zwevezele,
Hi all,

I updated my ECoS 1 to version 3.3.3 so not the buggy 3.4.0 version.
But still I have the issue with the programming track.

So I disconnected every track(main and programming) from my ECoS and still the station goes in to Stop state when I try to readout the address although nothing is connected.
I can still drive the loc on the programming track so the power supply to it is still valid, so no broken fuse issue. When I push the button to readout the address you only hear a click swithing it to the Stop state (a relay switch?).

So probably I will need to send it back to repairs but first I will bring it to my local dealer. Any idea what it costs a repair by ESU.

Best regards,
Frank
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 24 March 2011 22:15:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,499
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: fvri Go to Quoted Post
When I push the button to readout the address you only hear a click swithing it to the Stop state (a relay switch?).

No, the relay connects the programming track output to the main track output.
When the relay clicks, it connects the programming track output to the programming driver inside the ECoS.

Maybe the problem is with the relay.

Repair prices for CS1 reloaded are listed in the manual. Not sure if they also list prices in the ECoS manual.
Otherwise they should be able to send the current price list via e-mail.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline dntower85  
#8 Posted : 24 March 2011 22:19:02(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Frank,

At the back of the ECoS 2 manual it has the typical repair cost.

Type of fault P r i c e
in €
Replacement of display, touch pad and backlight 99.50
Repair of the track output or programming output 72.50
Replacing a defect main board 95.50
Replace defect ECoSniffer module 59.50
Replace Plug In module (throttle with motorised potentiometer
and joystick)
59.50
Replace housing parts (e.g.: upper cover due to
breakage, keyboard mats, battery compartment lid,
etc.)
19.50
Installing new software onto your command station
at our premises
19.50
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline David Dewar  
#9 Posted : 24 March 2011 22:58:13(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,720
Location: Scotland
Gee. They dont have a lot of faith in their product.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline fvri  
#10 Posted : 24 March 2011 23:01:48(UTC)
fvri


Joined: 07/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 773
Location: Zwevezele,
Hi Tom and Darrin,

Thx for the quick replies!

Tom you might be right regarding the relay at least it is not somekind of fuse problem or overcurrent protection failure as the programming track has still current to drive the loc. But rather some failure when the programing function is activated...

Nevertheless letting it repaired will still be much cheaper than buying a new one!

Best regards,
Frank
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#11 Posted : 25 March 2011 01:03:09(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,693
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Gee. They dont have a lot of faith in their product.


On the contrary, ESU are being up front about this sort of information. Judging from several comments lately, the CS2 has just as many problems, but you don't see Marklin publishing their repair rates. Didn't they just charge Stephen 200+ euros to fix the screen on his CS2? At 99.90 euros, it's much cheaper to replace the Ecos screen than the CS2 one (yes I know it's colour v's monochrome, but so what!)
Offline nevw  
#12 Posted : 25 March 2011 02:21:13(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,004
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Gee. They dont have a lot of faith in their product.


On the contrary, ESU are being up front about this sort of information. Judging from several comments lately, the CS2 has just as many problems, but you don't see Marklin publishing their repair rates. Didn't they just charge Stephen 200+ euros to fix the screen on his CS2? At 99.90 euros, it's much cheaper to replace the Ecos screen than the CS2 one (yes I know it's colour v's monochrome, but so what!)



I think you will find that they are both Colour. ECOS2 and CS2 both in technicolour

NN
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 25 March 2011 02:45:39(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,693
Location: New Zealand
So those prices are for all Ecos - 50000 and 52000?
Offline David Dewar  
#14 Posted : 25 March 2011 11:49:40(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,720
Location: Scotland
Hi David. I think you will find that there a lot less faults with with a non ESU CS also according to my dealer they out sell ECOS by more than 20 to 1. and CS does not have 20 times the number of faults.
I dont know of anything I have bought where I have a list of faults and the cost to repair them and I hope Marklin do not go down this road.
I know only of one ECOS owner in the UK and he likes his but with ESU sales falling in decoders they have to sell cheap to try to compete and hence the ECOS becomes better value than the CS2 providing Marklin dont change their locos to the extent which makes it more doifficuly to operaste with an ECOS.
ECOS owners will always shout loud for their product as do (or did) the IB owners but hopefully Marklin will continue to increase the faciltites of the CS2 as at its current price it must be good and very reliable.
Where there are problems with a CS2 most come from users attaching other items to them or just not understanding how it works in the first place.
Marklin should come out with a decent manual on the CS2 and at its current price include a free MS2 with each one sold.
I think really my view has always been if ESU goes out of business it does not matter but if Marklin does then we have a problem. In fact if ESU did go bust this would be good for Marklin.
In my younger days in management the aim was to close the competition and I expect Marklin would be happy to do this.
If my CS2 ever gives up then I would certainly look at ECOS but only because its cheaper although I understand it is possible to attach phones etc or something to it but that it not for me anyway.

dave ( Marklin for ever ...down with the M bashers boo)
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#15 Posted : 25 March 2011 12:35:37(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,693
Location: New Zealand
I do not want to see ESU go bust, I think the wider MRR world needs them probably more than they do Marklin, given that Marklin sell mainly 3 rail equipment. Of course, we would all panic if Marklin disappeared, mainly because we are 3 railers, and there is no other source of 3 rail track than Marklin. But I don't think the wider MRR world would care too much. On the other hand, ESU staying in business matters very much, especially to other manufacturers other than Marklin.

I'm sure there is more than one Ecos user in the UK, I know Dion here has sold quite a few of them, and he said to me that he personally likes the Ecos in preference to the CS2. The large number of CS2 sales are more likely to be due to people just blindly buying a Marklin branded controller, rather than them thinking about what they are doing. Marklin could put up a Marklin branded turnip, and it would still sell. Many thinking people who have actually compared the Ecos to the CS2 prefer the Ecos, and I'm inclined to agree. The Ecos is more likely to integrate better with the major MRR standards out there, where as the CS2 is more insular in its outlook.

That's not to say that the CS2 is no good, it has superb graphics and is easy to use, but in terms of its integration with the wider world, the Ecos is streets ahead. Of course Marklin may well develop those options later on.

Stating your repair costs is good business practice, customers know what they are up for. It certainly does not show weakness on ESU's part. We have certainly heard a few horror stories about forum members who have sent their precious locos into the black hole that is the Marklin Service Centre.
Offline dntower85  
#16 Posted : 25 March 2011 17:27:25(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Hi David. I think you will find that there a lot less faults with with a non ESU CS also according to my dealer they out sell ECOS by more than 20 to 1. and CS does not have 20 times the number of faults.
I dont know of anything I have bought where I have a list of faults and the cost to repair them and I hope Marklin do not go down this road.
I know only of one ECOS owner in the UK and he likes his but with ESU sales falling in decoders they have to sell cheap to try to compete and hence the ECOS becomes better value than the CS2 providing Marklin dont change their locos to the extent which makes it more doifficuly to operaste with an ECOS.
ECOS owners will always shout loud for their product as do (or did) the IB owners but hopefully Marklin will continue to increase the faciltites of the CS2 as at its current price it must be good and very reliable.
Where there are problems with a CS2 most come from users attaching other items to them or just not understanding how it works in the first place.
Marklin should come out with a decent manual on the CS2 and at its current price include a free MS2 with each one sold.
I think really my view has always been if ESU goes out of business it does not matter but if Marklin does then we have a problem. In fact if ESU did go bust this would be good for Marklin.
In my younger days in management the aim was to close the competition and I expect Marklin would be happy to do this.
If my CS2 ever gives up then I would certainly look at ECOS but only because its cheaper although I understand it is possible to attach phones etc or something to it but that it not for me anyway.

dave ( Marklin for ever ...down with the M bashers boo)


I think I'm agreeing with you on this one my new ECos 2 looks like it has a bad s88 port and EcosSniffer, it was ship with a bug that caused it to turn off power to the track a second after it was turned on which was fixed with a firmware update, but still after waiting forever for it after I had placed the order it should not of had this bug. Whether the ESU had a bug in there software or had a power serge when installing it or a cosmic ray flipped a bit I'll never know.

What does work on it does work very well. I still want the Ecos 2 for Railcom so I will be wanting mine fixed. I have heard of few problems with the CS2 but not as many, some day I also want to have a CS2 or three what ever is available when the funds are around.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline Writhdar  
#17 Posted : 25 March 2011 19:08:28(UTC)
Writhdar


Joined: 19/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: Durango, Colorado
Frank,

Delete all your locos (and maybe accessories), restart, and then try to enter them.

Based on my one experience, some of the ECoS functionality can be compromised if the locomotives are not entered "carefully & cleanly". For reasons only my stupidity can claim credit for, my initial registration of locos had some errors - I noticed duplicate and/or ghost entries. They went away and everything worked great except that I had a data transfer & synchronization issue with the Control Radio when I did a cold startup (details in the ECoS Support Forum, english section, "ECoS2 and ECoSControl Radio startup problem").

I deleted all my locos (and accessories) and, after a cold startup, carefully re-registered them - problem gone.

I did not do a "Factory Default" but I was considering it (I think it gives a complete deleting of your objects & any associations with them).

Dan
Offline David Dewar  
#18 Posted : 25 March 2011 21:05:19(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,720
Location: Scotland
Off now to buy an ESU startset and some coaches lol. The wider market is now using other decoders as well as ESU.

Darrin. It is a shame about your ECOS but at least they have told you what can go wrong and what it will cost .. but check first before sending for repair.

Cant see why anybody in the UK would buy an ECOS from OZ with the postage and even worse the customs charges when there is a dealer in the UK who will sell very much cheaper. They are also good for service and advice.

I was going to start a poll on who we would like to keep Marklin or ESU (obviously both) but it would be a foregone conclusion )if not we should change to an ESU forum lol.

Still looking for a firm who states the cost to repair faults with new equipment. Only comments you will get from those who back their products are that they dont need repair and should not develope faults.
The business world will say that the last thing they want to do is give repair costs with a new item .. but rather extend a warranty to show confidence in what they sell.

I dont know what has happened to IB and the users but not much news is coming our way. On the other hand their decoders are appearing in some Roco locos (dont have any but so I am told) Also how about the Commander .. surely somebody must have one as perhaps it is better than the others.

I think we will always have topics about controllers where Marklin dont really help users with poor instructions but at least we have the experts here to help and it is lively and fun apart from Darrin who hopefully will get a good result at the end of the day.

dave




Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline nevw  
#19 Posted : 25 March 2011 22:17:01(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,004
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
A little bit wrong there David.
ESU are not quoting prices for the repair of new equipment but state that after the warranty period things MAY go wrong and they have established a FIRM price policy for any repairs IF required, quoting most lilely scenerios.
(a bit similar to Stephen knocking his Cs2 off the table to the floor and breaking the body.)

So IF the worst does happen you know upfront what the charge for repair will be.

And YES BD prices quoted are for the technicolour Ecos.

A darrin's ECOS is covered by Warranty. Remember with the first edition of CS2 I had one that ran for about 6 hours and DIED.
This time I was lucky, 2 in the shop Darrin got one I got the other . Fingers and other bits crossed mine is Ok, Darrin got the short straw.

NN
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#20 Posted : 25 March 2011 22:21:30(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,693
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Off now to buy an ESU startset and some coaches lol.



Don't laugh, this is probably not too far away. ESU are manufacturing locos now, it wouldn't surprise me if there were coaches next year, track the year after, and starter sets the year after that! Laugh

Dave, you were looking for a Br218/215/210 diesel loco, maybe you should try the ESU Br215 out!
Offline David Dewar  
#21 Posted : 25 March 2011 23:32:10(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,720
Location: Scotland
Hi David. You may well be right and ESU could be our next Marklin. I did get a Brawa 218 as you know I do like their stuff. In fact if they made a controller ...... now there is a thing I may well leave my beloved CS2 for a sooper dooper Brawa.
My problem with ESU was the MS1 and no booster for the CS1 which left Marklin in a mess and a lot of unhappy customers. Had it not been for that Marklin would have stayed with them and we would probably all be using the same controller with a different badge.
Anyway I as always say everybody to their own thing as long as we enjoy model rail. Over the years I have been through Hornby,Fleischmann and Roco but ended with Marklin and so far their products have not let me down (even if the firm is not well run) .. who knows if I live long enough I could have a ESU layout.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#22 Posted : 26 March 2011 03:38:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,693
Location: New Zealand
Dave, I think both Marklin and ESU were to blame equally for the debacle that was the early versions of the CS1. Although I agree that the reliability of the MS1 left something to be desired, and no timely mfx booster for the CS1 was stupid, Marklin are just as bad for washing their hands of a product that has their name on it. If I was M's CEO/Owner I'd be kicking everyone's butts and making them reintroduce support for the CS1, complete with regular updates, and backward support with the CS2.
Offline David Dewar  
#23 Posted : 26 March 2011 11:59:38(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,720
Location: Scotland
Hi Dave. Dont think there is any chance of Marklin wating to do anything further with the old MS or CS. All are now out of warranty and I think ESU can maybe do something if they go bust.
ITs like any business where parts are made for a firm eg gear boxes for cars etc or screens for TVs. The supplier has to produce goods of good quality fit for the job and if they dont then they lose the business. All Marklin did was put there name on the product (like a Philps TV with screens made by Toshiba) if the product is poor then the person with their name on it gets the blame and all they can do is get somebody else to supply them with something suitable which Marklin has done.
The old CS with a B&W screen is no use anyway for todays market as the kids would just not want it.
I understand those who bought an ESU CS may be upset that Marklin wont fix it when it goes bust but thats life when you buy toys and all they can do is throw it out the pram and buy something else.
In the real world people change TVs.Laptops,mobile phones every few years and it should be no different with a toy train controller. Marklin have to live in the real world where those who think they buy toys that will last a long time without change are now no longer of interest to them ... and at the risk of sounding like 'you know who'I dont think they care.
The old Marklin of solid stuff that lasted for ever is gone. All M could do is buy their own small electronics firm and then make all their own decoders etc without relying on others but i dont think they have the cash to set this up.
Whether you own an ECOS or a CS2 many will go bust at some time and I will just buy another one. This might seem like throwing money about and at the end of the day in model rail that it what it is. I am happy to spend on the hobby knowing it is expensive and poor value because it gives hours of fun and relaxation and anything that goes bust I throw away (other than a loco where I know I can fix it which is also part of the hobby)
I understand that many look at it another way and are much more frugal and sensible with their cash etc.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline fvri  
#24 Posted : 26 March 2011 18:44:34(UTC)
fvri


Joined: 07/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 773
Location: Zwevezele,
Hi Dan,

Thanks for the tip, but unfortunately it does not solve my problem. Probably something in Hardware has broken in my ECoS and so I will need to send it back to ESU repairs.

Best regards,
Frank
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