In a moment of impulse buying at an exhibition I came home with the 3077 Zeppelin, thinking that conversion to digital would be simple. However, it has two motors: a normal AC motor for propulsion and a DC motor for the propeller. Both are powered in parallel (forward only) and then a rectifier feeds the DC motor. The analogue is interesting as the propeller speed increases as the voltage increase and the once it has some revs the locomotive starts moving. Quite neat actually - so I want to retain this feature in digital.

My first thought was to put in an old 6080 (c80) but I am concerned that the two motors will draw too much current and blow the decoder. A 609xx decoder with F1 /F2 will not help as the output of the functions are purely on or off, and not variable.

I then thought I could get the decoder for the 3477 (Delta) Zeppelin as a spare part - but it is no longer produced. Even if it was, the motor for the propeller is different and from the spare-part diagram looks like being AC (as no rectifier is used).

Has anyone converted a 3077 to digital to work the way it does in analogue? If so could you please let me know how you did it?

Oh that's interesting.. Which ESU Loksound decoder did you use? I could not find one for the 3077 and like Hobbit I could not work out how to sort out the propellor motor.. I am guessing that the original loco would have sounded like an aircraft engine and not like a diesel loco..

There is another method that I've seen on the Stummi forum. It's a bit more involved (uses some electronics, e.g. a Zener diode). Let me know if you want the link.

I am still using the original propeller motor (3477).
This actually is a DC engine as far as I can see...



Mmm, let me think, some time has past since the conversion.
I converted the main engine armature to DC (HAMO) and a 5-pole rotor.

Checking the http://www.hfkern.gmxhome.de/ website:

3077 1975-1990 Relais SFCM
3477 1995-1996 Delta DCM

So mine must have had an DCM engine already, although I can remember that there was a SFCM engine in the 3477 too

I am 100% sure I bought me a 60923 MFX decoder set and used the decoder in my Delta BR52....[B)]
The rest (armature) must have gone in the 3477, together with a Loksound decoder.

But it works in both cases You can order rotor and magnets as spare parts from Märklin via my dealer.
So you do not need to buy a complete set (with decoder electronics)

Look at the shape difference of the magnets between the one in 60921 and 60923

It is a puzzle indeed, maybe we should move it to the Quiz section.
But the facts are:

* The 3477 comes with a SFCM 'all-current'AC motor with coil 'magnet'
* The 3477 comes with a Delta decoder.
* The website www.hfkern.gmxhome.de must be wrong about the DCM.
* The propeller is engine is DC, with a permanent magnet
* The schematic is tricky...

If the Delta decoder would feed AC the DC engine would be a vibrator. Wouldn't it?

Also it would 'run' or 'vibrate' only when driving in one direction?

PS: my 3477 box is stacked on the attic not easy to reach it or find it instantly

Thanks for the link, my favourite vintage aircraft
And I agree, my dieselsound is just a 'close as possible' out of the ESU box match.

Luckily the speaker isn't that high fidelity

Using an old C80 was my first thought, but the 3077 prop-motor draws 0.5A as soon as it starts working at low voltage and must go higher, but I cannot measure any higher (needle is off the dial at higher voltage). I am therfore reluctant to hook up both motors, which I guess could easily draw more than 1A together, and blow the decoder.

It looks like the prop-motor in the 3477 with the flywheel is a newer style motor and possibly draws less current. Perhaps it is better buy a new prop-motor intended for the 3477 and put it into the 3077 rather than risk blowing (yet another!) decoder, as this motor clearly works with decoders. It may even be quieter and smoother than the old one which is a bit rough an noisy.

Is the prop-motor in the 3477 smooth and quiet?

Oh that is also interesting.. So there was two Zepplins? One with a two blade prop and one with a four blade prop...

Also has anyone come across the Luftschraube (4 blade prop) Marklin 235250 anywhere?

Bob

I came across this 3077 at a most excellent price. I knew it was a 50-50 chance on that what I might get might not run at all. But for almost $61 US, how could I not take the chance? Well when I received it, it did not run. Had never ever been maintained at all. To call it dirty and nasty would of been way too kind. But beyond all of that, it had to have run at one time. I took it apart. Piece by piece and cleaned it, scrubbed it and cleaned it again. The wheels were caked with grit and grime from years past. The motor had never been lubed. After all was said and done, she ran like new. A few bruises from a few collisions in a previous life. But this Zeppelin is now mine and mine alone. I plan on giving her a new lease on life and upgrade her as others have done in the past. But she runs just fine the way she is now. You can see the difference on the insides from the post above of the 3477. I have one of those as well, still new in the box, never been out. And never has been on any track that I know of.











The 4 Bladed prop had a broke blade on it. My Volmer plastic glue did not work. My Faller plastic glue did not work. But Super Glue from NAPA Auto Parts worked great!

Bob R

To Bob R and others,

At this point I am waiting for parts for the conversion. The plan is as follows: I have ordered a new prop motor, motor bracket and bolt intended for the 3477 to replace the old one in the 3077. The new one has a fly wheel so I am guessing (hoping) that it will run quieter and draw less power. Once I have it I can determine how much current it draws and determine whether an old C80 decoder can take the load of the two motors. If it does and if the Zep runs smoothly I might leave it at that. However, just to be on the safe side I also ordered a LokPilot3 and ESU/Hamo magnet as that configuration might draw even less current than the AC motor, but I doubt that it will run much smoother using the old 3 pole armature. I therefore also ordered a 5 pole Marklin armature, magnet and motor shield to go the full hog. It will be interesting to see how much improvement each stage will make. Whenever I stop I can always use the bits for other conversion so nothing will be wasted.

I also decided to order the interior for the 3477 and I will put paper behind the rear half windows to make it look more like the prototype. I am also thinking of putting in a small red LED at the rear. I might even consider adding interior lighting on the spare function.

I now have to wait patiently for the bits to arrive which probably will take 4 weeks as they have to wait for a couple of new items not yet released from the factory. If it works well with the LP3 I will be very tempted to later upgrade to a LokSound, as discussed earlier, as that should make this model truly special. I’ll keep you posted.

For those of you that are interested, there is an auction for a nice looking 3077 on the New Zealand auction site Trademe - http://www.trademe.co.nz...ves/auction-76016707.htm

The reserve has already been met at $NZ100 ($US65), and the auction closes on Thursday 9 November.

Cheers

The spare parts finally arrived. The first thing I wanted to test was how much less current the new prop motor (intended for the 3477) drew. I got quite a surprise when I discovered that the motor is AC, unlike the one in the 3077 which is DC.


[Mounting bracket and AC motor for 3477 on left and centre, DC motor for 3077 on right]

This was not expected as I had hoped to convert the loco motor to DC and then run both via the LokPilot decoder. As the new prop motor is AC there is not much point converting the main motor to DC as it will not be possible to run the AC prop motor at the same time that way.

However the new prop motor is significantly quieter than the original DC so I decided that I would use the new prop motor with the old main motor rather than converting the main motor and leaving the original noisy prop motor.


[clip/lug and wire soldered to it must be removed in order to fit motor onto bracket]

As I wanted to retain the realistic propeller rev increases before the loco moves, the need to switch the prop motor through a function and a relay to send AC to it from the pick-up show was avoided. This then restricted me to use a 6080 decoder which essentially identical to the way the Delta 3477 is configured.

I was going to try this first and to see if I was happy with leaving the old 3 pole main motor before trying other alternatives. As it turned out both the running characteristics and the noise levels were in my opinion fairly acceptable. Sure a 60903 or LokPilot+Hamo magnet would have given smoother and quieter running but the constant speed characteristic is not an issue and not really required as the loco does not pull any wagon load.

To my delight the 6080 handles the load of the two motors, and I never went back to see whether the original 3077 prop motor and main motor were too much for the 6080.

I had also ordered the interior from the 3477 which I thought would look nice with added interior lighting but I later realised that the main engine occupies the front quarter and the seating only extend to the centre doors. Even if it were to go to the back door one would have trouble concealing the decoder. There are also two unsightly posts for the screws that hold the body to the chassis. I put it in anyway since I had ordered it. For it to fit one needs to remove the rectifier or as I did leave it and cut a slot for it to stick through. I also brought the wiring through this opening to the decoder.


[Interior fitted - showing slot cut to fit rectifier]

I have not yet added the interior lighting, and I am thinking that I may be better off not putting it in as it would only draw attention to the shortcomings mentioned. I was also thinking of putting white paper behind the rear windows like the 3477 but I decided against it for now at least. The decoder is not that obvious unless one goes looking for it.


[The digital 3077 on its maiden run]

Overall for the cost of less than 30 euro (excluding the 6080 which I already had) the conversion was a success. I just need to paint that ridiculous orange propeller to realistic colours one day.

Excellent,thanks for sharing.

Hello epc,

I hope you had a good Chrismat too, and welcome to the forum.

I ordered the parts from LokShop in Germay over the internet. They have a good website (once you know what you need) and I have not had any problem with their service. To find out what is needed I looked at the loco parts diagrams at Marklin' main website which gives you the part numbers. It will also help you with the wiring in this instance as it is different from typical wiring.(Actually you need to look at the diagram for the 3477)

Here are the part numbers I used:
556360 Motor (for the propeller)
555750 Bracket to support motor
555760 Interior

For the decoder I used an old 6080. They do not sell them any longer but you could use a Delta decoder instead. However, I am not sure if all Delta decoders can can cope with the higher current draw that two motors generate. In fact this was my inital concern.

There are other options, as this thread discussed, but it depends to some extent on which prop motor you end up with. You may even be able to add decoder without major "changes" to the 3077 by adding a decoder from a 36xx loco directly but nobody I know has reported that it does work.

To get old 6080s I mainly get such by buying upgrad kits for older digital locos to high efficienct decoders which frees up lesses decoders which I later put in analog locos that I do not want to spend too much on to make them digital.

Good luck and have fun with the conversion.

Yes, I wired the prop motor in parallel with the forward feed to the main motor. Go this this link http://www.maerklin.de/s...uktservice/miexploh0.php and download the info on the 3477 which shows you the wiring.

I have no experience with the decoders you mention so I cannot comment, but as long as they work with AC motors and have a decent current rating you should be OK. Perhaps if you post a new thread asking the difference between Marklin 6080 and those that you are thinking about you may get an informed answer on that topic.

One key decision you need to make is whether you want to end up with two DC motors or two AC motors (as I did) as that decision may rule out using certain decoders.

Note also that others who have contributed to this topic earlier have suggested other decoders which have worked for them.

Hobbit,

I was curious how easily the Prop Motor Bracket fit in the Chasis of the 3077? Did it bolt in or did you have to modify anything? I am thinking about just replacing the Main Motor and the Prop Motor on my 3077 with the correct Motors from the 3477?

Bob R

Talking about impulses. I got bitten from this site a couple of years ago, and the result, among many, is I am now a proud owner of a 3077 Schienenzeppelin (ver 1) with the orange prop. And now for the "What was I thinking" moment.

Seems line I don't know how to take off the body of give it a couple of sips of oil, Thanks to you guys, I realize there are a couple of motors that need a sip. As seems customary on Ebay, the manuals for oiling and spare parts are often not included/lost.

I got a copy of Marklin spare parts list, and studied the fine pictures here, even saw a picture of the oiling instructions on Ebay, but for the life of me can't figure out how to remove the "prop".

The "prop" seems to just slide on a shaft on the rear of the engine. If that is the case can one "tug" gently on the orange prop to remove it? Direction for a newbie would be appreciated. The shaft the "prop" fits on seems smooth and no indexing is required. Or, did I step into it!!

Also a description of the lubrication points for the rear of the engine would be more that appreciated. I am assuming the amount of labelle 108 is just a drop or 2 at most.

Thanks to all, especially Hobbit, Gert-Jan and Bob for all the pictures and information.

Be carefull with the prop as spare parts are no longer available from marklin.
I'm looking for a prop if anyone knows where one is I would appreciate the info.
Thanks,
Eric

Have you scoured the net? If so, I would try some of the dealers in Europe. I was afraid of breaking the prop when I poped it off for oiling!!

Good tip Eric

Looks good Ross, but you don't seem to be able to by the 60903 set any more..