And in the Insolvency topic, the market for model trains is defined:

Here are the figures from the insolvency plan.

MRR market 2008 by country in mio. Euro based on dealer prices.

Country; Market size (euros); Märklin share
US; 240; 1 %
DE; 186; 50 %
JP; 77; 1 %
UK; 30; 2 %
AT; 16; 16 %
NL; 15; 65 %
FR; 13; 20 %
CH; 11; 44 %
BE/LU; 8; 39 %
CN; 3; 1 %

The countries listed here cover 2/3 of the global MRR market (about 300 mio. Euro not listed).

Is that market size falling or rising??

regards
Kimball

Agreed Tim. Problem is there are not enough folk like us here who want to buy toy trains. Both HAG and Brawa restrict their range and thus tooling costs and charge more for the product. They will also suffer from lack of sales but may well be better placed to make a profit although I do wonder how HAG survive but I presume they have a following who buy every new loco which just has a new advert on the side. Both Brawa and HAG are metal and both run well (Brawa also does plastic locos thus attracting cheaper end of market)
Marklin scores by providing everything we need for our layout where the others have to reply on Marklin to make three rail track etc.
I would like to see Marklin get better decoders made by one of the large firms like Sony or Toshiba etc. This would give us smaller decoders and possibly a better price. I have shown an ESU decoder to manufacturers and they cant believe what we pay for this type of item.
I have always wanted Marklin to join with Brawa giving a fantastic range and sharing costs and factory etc and becoming the biggest and best.


dave

Ray,
I don't know whether someone has mentioned it here on this forum or I've read it somewhere else,
In Germany, supermarkets and department stores etc. didn't buy Märklin starter sets because of the Guarantee period (min. 3 month).

John

Hi, I believe that Maerklin should be stressing to the young the positive , fun aspects of our hobby and how it uses our imaginations in so many ways and teaches so much too. eg electonics, nature recreation, carpentry etc. Small boys here in the states, I've noticed, seem interested in Thomas,Brio and then it stops. Also, I think starter sets should be as inexpensive as possible. Cheers,Peter

The very point, Ray - and extremely difficult to change, alas ...

I think in the developed countries - MRR market is shrinking. No doubt about it.

There is still potential growth for MRR market when we account the rapid rise of the middle class in the developing world.

In 2000 - 430 million of the world population can be counted as middle class = have the money to spend on non-necessities.
This number is projected to more than tripled in the next few decades.

Alas, I think US or UK MRR brands seem to be better suited to benefit at present time.
Think price, presence, and available models.
But it's not too late for Markin to catch up with the right strategy.

Or the Playstation!

I think that is included in the concept of "computer"!
(In our household it´s Nintendos all around...)

Or the race track

Is that Stock Car Racing for the PS3 or for the Xbox 360?

Ooh, sorry to hear about your wife. PS3 is still expensive here too...

Steve,

and welcome to the forum.

he will be another satisfied Märklinist.

John

Steve-welcome to the forum. It was probably the ETE-ENE layout that you saw.

www.ete-ene.org

Hi Kev and yes I believe that you are so right! When I was 11 I remember seeing Maerklin's beautiful display layout at FAO Schwartz in New York City. From that moment on I fell in love with Maerklin and European trains. The fever has never gone! Cheers,Peter

Kimball,
I've had a few inquiries about model train sets (when I was a dealer) around Christmas but never heard anything more or didn't make any sales the moment they've heard the price.

Its a shame people shy away from "toys" with a proven history such as Märklin and buy their son, grandson a cheap set, maybe half the price and most probably would'nt last until next Christmas.
Some parents are worried, how long will my son show interest in trains ? and buying an expensive set may be in their eyes a waste of money.
Some of the reasons or worries parents do have have never been substantiated.
Our grandchildren are all girls so I haven't been able to convince them or haven't bought them any train sets.

I was thinking a long time ago on the same lines, to introduce Märklin into department stores but Märklin's export policy wasn't the best at any given time and unless you are the sole distributor your outlay could be a waste of money.

Diversity can make or break your business sometimes it all depends of the type of goods you are trying to sell and China would be the place for production.
Märklin had all these cooking stoves, pots and other things for girls and this market just dissapeared.

You also have to take into consideration, the masses are drinkers, smokers, sweet eaters, take away food gobblers, mobile phone addicts, all in all have a selfish and negative attitude and anything healthy or educational is off limits. How could you convince anybody buying a Märklin train set, whereas their shopping trolley is full of softdrinks, ready made meals and other junk food, crying and screaming children with uncontrollable behaviour patterns and lack any sense of love or respect.

Department stores today look at an item, price and than decide will it sell x amount of units. If it doesn't fit the criteria they wont purchase it.
Guarantee is another stumbling block.
Some white goods item you can return to the store in case of any fault others have an independent service contractor and repairs can take up to 3 month to be finalized.

An upmarket Märklin train set, packaged in a nice presentation box could be a goer but having the run of the mill train sets, I don't think there is a market for this here in Australia.
You can forget about Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, Hobart and even Brisbane, so the only city left would be Melbourne, which has an embedded history regarding train enthusiasts, including European modellers.

Lego has gone with the times and sometimes you'll see young groups in shopping centres playing with Lego, either part of an promotion or educational purpose or just for children to play with.
I've made numerous requests with shopping centres to be able to display my layout, (at a cost of course) but sofar haven't had much luck of succeeding, firstly the financial downturn and now at Christmas, which is odd, would be the best time to display it but because of the rush and plenty of shoppers there seems to be no need for this sort of stuff.
So here, we do differentiate from European Shoppers, Department stores but children will always be same all over the world, they love to see a model train.

When we had our layout displayed at the Royal show, pretty much the same scenario had occurred, children asked their parents, can they see the layout, the moment the realized there was an entry fee, no I'm not paying for this.

some expectations are as follows: If I cant get it for free or for nothing, I'm not interested in.
To some extend, mothers don't seem to have a great deal of interest in model trains in the first place and unless they are educated or show some diversity in general interests, children's curiosity and learning process of growing up has been bashed out of their brains, day after day.
Some people always have this thought in the back of their mind: Am I getting ripped off here but don't understand someone else made the effort for you to enjoy it, at a reasonable price tag, (this is why I will never go into an Italian restaurant and pay A$ 30.00 for Spaghetti's, regardless which variety).

I'm afraid there isn't much hope introducing our children or our young generation into the world of model trains unless our big brothers and sisters are willing to listen to our youngsters and nothing much has changed over the years, years back children weren't allowed to speak unless spoken to, to day most parents don't listen to their children, nor do they speak to them, they get told what they can do and can't do, they get told what they can eat and can't eat, so the process of introducing new exiting and educational things into their life, isn't happening.
Some children today are left overs from a selfish "What about Me" society and some results stem from self inflicted parenthood abuse without any proper attention given to the welfare of our youngsters.

We only can do what we intend to do and accomplish it for sake of others.

John

I don't really agree with several comments developped in this topic....specially one kind of comments about the age of MRR enthusiasts often shown as last dinosaurus before their extinction or as an endangered species....
Looking around me, in train shops, or fairs etc..even on internet forums... I see some old people (like me) but I'm seeing plenty of young people as well....
My view is that this hobby has changed + has been evolving , but it will never disappear....and I believe that it will keep on evolving....It went out of its exclusive status of "popular toy for children", to become a hobby for everybody , childs, teenagers, and adults....Between the years 1930 and now it has been crossing several periods.....Actual trend is towards more realistic models, "accuracy of the replicas" with more prototypical shapes, probably thanks to - because of - customers profile of "old babyboomers" + improvements into miniaturization of motors and elctronic components.Imagination is the pregorative of youth. Give child a cube he will see it as a house ,as a car or anything he wants it to be. He doesn't need details...The old man is not so....flexible ( not always... ) ...
In the years 1930, or 1950 after WW2, there were some adults already "playing" with trains....apparently & proportionately not so much than today.....( we were living in a more rigid society...) At this time, accuracy of shapes was not essential, probably because technically not possible in HO scale, difficult in 0 scale (plastic came at the end of 50's ...+ WW2 +... tin plate instead of injection,+...+... etc...etc...)
At this time the major trend was : electrical automation,automatic functionning....the Adult enthusiasts were mainly in pursuit of the most sophisticated automation system to operate several trains and signals...The main interest was : designing, building, testing and playing with full automatic motion including automatic stops at the station, at the signals, at a junction as a priority passengers train was coming ,automatic whistle,... etc...etc...

What about the next 10 years.. ...2010 / 2020 :...what will be the new tendancy or next technology....????


Have a look here, a MRR french forum, this topic is about "photo of members of the forum".....just see the 10 or 15 first pages, do you find them so "old" , I see them as a mixed generation.......( ...rather representing "average people talking about MRR on internet forums"....but 99.99% are MRR enthusiasts....) :

http://www.lrpresse.fr/t...pic.php?f=46&t=40420

Edited by user 02 January 2011 03:46:59(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi BigD,
I'm not saying that it can't be done... at the end of the day, someone is still needed to serve the market.
with all due respect to any dealer down under, no offence was intended.

I was just highlighting that for any prospective small business owner point of view, MRR business simply will make a very difficult case.
Hence why we see more people opening cafes and restaurants rather than becoming a new MRR dealer...

Your inventory has to be enormous and the returns are minimal.
By the time you put in all your hours, your stock level, accounting, tax you may get a small return to survive but its not a business you could sell nor does it provide any security, same goes for restaurants upmarket cafes are the trend at the moment.

Some distributors or dealers having a day time job to earn a living.

You have to remember it is a buyers market and not a sellers market.

John