Hi,

Bear with me, I am new both here and to Märklin digital. I am 25 and have had Märklin for the last 15 years, but this is the first time I am getting into digital stuff and general planning and understanding the railroad. I have right now some odd 10meters of k-track with 8 points arranged in a dogbone of some sort. All my engines have digital decoders. For controling all this I will be getting a Mobile Station 2.(possibly a used ESU 50000, but that's in the future)

Now I've been looking at both Märklins own signals (the 76xxx range) and Wiessmanns Multiplex range. Which one will you guys recommend? and how should I set it up so that a train will stop for a red and go slow for a yellow?

example: I have a long straight which ends in a point. So to not cause any problems with traffic from the side spur I should have some form of signal.

More importantly, can I just connect the signals directly to the MS2 or do I need something more? and how much track work is needed. Do I need a S88 to detect the train or ??

Any other suggestions are more than welcome - Thank you,

Martin

Hi Martin,
Welcome to the forum.

I am 40 years older, but had a go at the digital signsls. They are very good.
So in addition to what Thomas has said, may I give you some of my experience.

I used a Central Station 1, but I guess the capability of an MS2, or even a CS2 are similar. Firstly, I did not need any separate decoders or switches, because the CS1 handles it all, and the decoders are in the head of the signal.

I have written an explanation in English, in case you want to have a go at the 76xxx type of Märklin signal.

See http://www.qldrail.net/altkloster/digitalsignalsetup.pdf

regards
Kimball

Welcome Martin,

I too, have converted to digital for a few years now.

There are some fundamental questions you have to ask yourself or share them with us.

How big will your layout be and how many locos are considering running.

Unless you have a final answer to these questions it will be hard and may be a waste of money to get digital components, you may find in the future are not suitable any more, hence a possible double outlay of funds.

I'm referring to MS2, ECoS, CS2.

Kimball & Thomas have enlighten you on the signal side of things.
Operating a train and stopping in front of a signal is again another issue.

Assuming your digital locos have an acceleration and braking delay your train, with the help of an ESU decoder could help you stopping the trains before the signal.

Whether or not Viesmann or Märklin signals have already a signal module in house build, I don't know but to be able to stop the train, 3 separate isolated sections are created.
1.) the first section has to be long enough for your slider to fit within the section, this will activate the braking delay, (can be regulated via decoder or ESU programmer with ESU decoders).
2.) This section will allow your train to slow down until it reaches the signal
3.) this isolated section is for the purpose, in case your train over runs the 2nd section and stops.
While your train stops at the 2nd section, your light functions will be preserved and all your functions, e.g. steam generator, sound.

To use a S 88, the main purpose is to control trains, via memory or computer and use it for if a track is occupied by a train and to integrate signals and turnout solenoids within the route program of a memory or CS.
The set up is a bit more demanding all depends what type of tracks you are using, the easiest track for this would be the k-track, as each track is isolated from each other.

Diving back into the hobby is one thing but making the right decision as you go along is another thing and a very important issue, on one hand a learning curve on the other hand if you don't take things step by step you will find yourself, laying the track, pulling it up, changing it, etc. etc.

Getting to the part were it becomes easy after a while, is the hard part.

Good luck and give us as many information you've got on hand.

John

Märklin digital signals don't have this - they need a separate brake module, otherwise they just cut off power to the stop section. Viessmann have basically the same design. One difference is that the Märklin brake module has built-in logic for controlling a simple 2-aspect light signal, while Viessman brake module connects to a signal or relay that already has this capacity. But the price tag differs as well!

Hi all,

First of all, thank you for the warm welcome. And there certanly is a lot of silver haired expertise in here.

As for my layout. I don't have a track plan, as it is evolving as time flies by and knowledge is gained. I am in era V with some steam engines and my general idear is a double track mainline and a 4 or 5 track station and if there is space available then maybe a small freight yard. Scenery is sort of south germany (Munich to Innsbruck).

I am fully aware that Märklin does do track isolators, but is there a way to do my self? cost saving and custumization.

Thomas: Thanks for the great advise. That post #111 certainly has some great books in it. I found the old Märklin signal book as well. The Viessmann manuals are actually quite helpfull.

Kimball: That explanation is excellent. Well done.

Ranjit and Steventrain: Thanks

John: What a lot of great information. It was really helpfull with the 3 sections of track. quick question, which out computer-control, is it possible to get the "go slow"/yellow light to function properly?
I've watched your videos and I must say they are great and your layout is very inspirational. One thing I noticed is that your trains go past the signal before they stop. I can only assume that's a question of fine tuning. Is there a way to make trains go slower in a switching area with out the full computer control?

kgsjoqvist: Thanks. Do I need a brake module regardless of the type of signal/train?

Have a nice day,

Martin

Hi,

I've been looking at signals again and one thing that struck me is why I can't use the S88 to detect where the train is and then send a stop/go-slow/go message to it's decoder.

Now, I think I need some hands on experience before I continue. However, can someone tell how to make the isolated track sections easily? I know märklin does these tracks, but there must be a way to DIY.

Martin

Hi Kimball,

First, thanks for your detailed instructions. I repeatedly followed it but no success.

Here is my configuration: CS2 60214 and one Marklin signal, 76394 and one K83.
For some reason, the signal does not want to be programmed: the different colors do not blink! It uses Address 1 by default in the Keyboard and that is it. I have to assign other keyboards for the turnouts (with K83).
However, the signal can be commanded except for Green, you have to us "Green/Yellow" button, annoying...

Is there anything I have missed? Note I used it before in a conventional connection and it worked well.


Thanking you in advance,
Fabrice

Hi Kimball,

Many thanks for your reply and really sorry for late reply.
Was highly busy on benchwork and now drama on one loco...

Here are the sequences I followed as said in the manual and what has been suggested in this forum:
Just a kind reminder, I use CS 60214 (version 1.4.0 (1)) and Marklin signal 76393

1 - Setup a Color Light Signal HP0/1/2 in the Keyboard
2 - Push the Stop
3 - Plug the decoder in the "clip" (cannot insert a photo here but took me a while to figure out that actually it is a little piece of plastic that came with the set. For some reason, I did not throw it away... If you lost it, maybe you have to built yourself one...)
4 - Push Go
5 - Now the signal alternates Green and Red
6 - Tap the Green button as defined in step 1
7 - Now Green and Yellow blink together
8 - Tap Yellow and Green button as defined in step 1
9 - Now all lights are on
10 - As nothing followed, I tapped again the Green button
11 - Now all lights are off (sometimes it puts itself in demo mode)
12 - Push Stop
13 - Remove the decoder from the clip
14 - Push Go

Now it is working but it is either Red or Green/Yellow. Impossible to get Green on!
At least it stops the train (had to change the rails and the insulators...).

Please tell me what would be wrong as now I do not have more explanation except it may be the CS itself. It is a pity it is not working right the first time for the price you paid.


Kind regards,
Fabrice

I think I know your problem, as this sounds very similar to what I had when programming my 76393 with a 60214 running the same version of software. I spent nearly a day trying to get my signals to show the correct aspect when using S88 and 76xxx signals. I progammed my 76393 exactly as you did but the signal would never show the correct aspect. After a period of trail and error I found (when in the keyboard mode) there are two types of signals options to choose from which wasn't obvious during my first programming attempt. You must chose the second digital signal option by scrolling further down the menu(Sorry I dont have my 60214 with me, so cannot exactly remember the the correct menu option) but essentially there is another signal option further down in the settings that correspond to the digital 76xxx series signals. Do not select the first signal HP0/1 option in the menu as I did. Someone on this forum that has an operational 60214 running might be able to inform you of the exact menu option you need.
After I found this second option I reprogammed my siganls and all worked as designed. Why there are no instructions on ensuring you use the correct setting is beyond me, Marklin help menus have never been crystal clear but at least I have working signals ..!!!

Hi Fabrice,

I definitely used the second option (scale colour light) HPO/1/2 for my 76393. I suggest you try and reprogram your signal again after selecting this colour signal type. When in program mode (with program clip attached)pay close attention to the timing of events when the signal is going through its sequence, make sure you correctly select the aspects options when the signal is displaying the correct patten of behaviour for each aspects on the 60214 keyboard. If you leave the selection process to long then it automatically goes into demo mode. (which you don't want..!!)
There is no need for any 6083 with these signals as all the electronics is embbeded in the control module that comes with each signal.

Hallo people! If you watch this video you're don't have a problems with connection 76393 and CS!

Try on and you'll win!
Pardon for my English!