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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 28 November 2010 05:43:42(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Interesting reading about RailCom.

One disturbing factor again is, although Lenz has opened up the protocol for others to use as well, we haven't seen others follow their footsteps.

this is one aspect of spending money over and over again by using different digital manufacturers and their digital systems.
Although Lenz has got a transmitting decoder as an after installation they also have decoders already fitted with this technology.

As I have most of my locos fitted with ESU decoders, ESU doesn't offer any decoders with RailCom assistance, the latest being fitted with a powersupply (will be released later).

ESU statement about V4 decoders:
Also new is the additional connection facility for an external „Power Pack". This optionally (coming in 2011) available energy store is able to energize the motor up to 2 seconds if the power supply is interrupted and makes you finally forget dirty tracks!

I'm pretty sure Lenz and his founder is trying, which they have done in the past to open up and share newer technology so everyone will be benefiting from it.


Here is a fact sheet about Lenz RailCom

http://www.lenz.com/techinfo/railcomfaq.htm

What are your thoughts ?
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 28 November 2010 10:58:13(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,456
Location: DE-NW
river6109 wrote:
What are your thoughts?

There are patents on Railcom preventing mfx to do the same tricks.

Railcom is older than mfx.

I don't want to use Railcom, I don't want to use mfx at home (it's nice for club meetings).
But it would have been nice if the mfx ideas had been used to improve Railcom instead.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 28 November 2010 11:07:36(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,282
None of them has very good contact at the track for information to Central unit/station.
Actuelly it´s not necessary to have of them!
I have never toke part of them on the track.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline mbarreto  
#4 Posted : 01 December 2010 21:49:21(UTC)
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mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,334
Tom,
Why you don't like to use mfx at home?

Regards,

Miguel
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline dntower85  
#5 Posted : 01 December 2010 21:59:29(UTC)
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dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
river6109 wrote:
Interesting reading about RailCom.


As I have most of my locos fitted with ESU decoders, ESU doesn't offer any decoders with RailCom assistance, the latest being fitted with a powersupply

http://www.lenz.com/techinfo/railcomfaq.htm

What are your thoughts ?



I don't know how well Railcom is implemented but ESU has it in there LokPilot and LokSound decoders

"
The LokPilot V3.0 commands DCC through 14, 28 and 128 speed steps, as well as Motorola® and Selectrix®. The decoder recognizes the speed-step numbers automatically. It supports Lenz® LG 100 resp. Roco® braking sections as well as Zimo®’s HLU-commands, or the braking in DC braking sections with reversed polarity, or the Märklin® braking section (even for DCC). You can either use two digit (1 – 127), or four digit (1 – 9999) addresses or assign a consist address. The Motorola® protocol enables the LokPilot V3.0 decoder to run with Märklin® stations 6020, 6021, Delta®, Mobile Station® and Central Station®. The decoders can command addresses 1 – 255, and come to a stop correctly on the Märklin® braking section. With Selectrix® layouts you have the choice of up to 122 addresses. The LokPilot V3.0 converts during operation fully automatically between all control modes (Motorola®, DCC, DC, AC and Selectrix®).

RailCom® already ensures that the decoder will be recognized by the main track and can send its address. Connected with an ECoS command station and an ECoSDetector feedback module unprecedented possibilities of playing will be possible.
"
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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Offline perz  
#6 Posted : 02 December 2010 00:16:03(UTC)
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perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
RailCom uses a completely different electrical principle for the reverse channel compared to mfx.

RailCom responses are based on "cutout" periods where the control unit does not drive the track. The decoder drives a signal onto the track during these periods, using energy stored in the decoder.

Mfx decoders send responses by modulating the current drawn from the track. This does not require any "cutout" periods. Mfx reverse signalling is electrically using the same principle as Digitrax "transponding" technology. Digitrax "transponding" technology is protected by a patent, but that patent only protects some aspects of it, like positioning. For the purposes for which mfx uses the current modulation principle (registration, "ping" and CV read back) I can't see that it violates that patent.

I haven't investigated exactly which patents that exist for RailCom but I guess those patents could not protect applications using the current modulation principle, since the Digitrax system has been along for a very long time without seeming to be affected by any RailCom patents.

From an electrical engineering point of view I think the mfx/Digitrax principle is much sounder. My speculation is that Lenz chose another less electrically sound principle just to circumvent the Digitrax patent. But if you work hard enough and long enough you can turn the most horrible ideas into a working system.
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Offline supermoee  
#7 Posted : 02 December 2010 13:02:03(UTC)
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supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Hello,

why you are telling that other manufacturers do not support Railcom?

some ESU (see above) and Viessmann (ex. Art.-Nr.:5243) decoder do support it also.

rgds

Stephan
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Offline dntower85  
#8 Posted : 02 December 2010 17:49:43(UTC)
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dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
I wonder if the decoder that is in the 60760 set might have RailCom.

It was made by ESU and is almost just like the LokPilot except it is missing a function wire.

I have several loks that I converted with this set.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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